Literotica is 22% Women (plus other stats)

[LiverpoolMaster]

Really?

Yes, really. That this place is a wall-to-wall sausage fest has been known for years. The vast number of freds-in-frocks inhabiting (especially) the personals boards has been documented time and time again. I've even seen some admit to it quoting various specious reasons. You can try to persuade yourself that there is some kind of counterweight to this in the shape of a mysterious army of women who, in an environment which is anonymous to begin with, somehow need to flaunt themselves as males - but this won't wash.

The plain fact is that females on here are like hen's teeth, certainly as regards members.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

By 'on this site' is that Lit readers (with or without account), or forum accounts, personals, authors, or an estimate of some mix of the lot?

Critical commenters seem to mainly be male, but I'd expect readers to be more evenly split, especially given women traditionally like reading porn over viewing it. AO3's content seems to be practically all written by women and 80% of readers are female, too (varying by category), according to surveys.

 

[TxRad]

At one time there were a lot more women here in the AH than there are now. I met a good number of them at a couple of Litogethers.

 

[JuanaSalsa]

At one time there were a lot more women here in the AH than there are now. I met a good number of them at a couple of Litogethers.

Do Litogethers still happen? What are they and how do you find these mysterious beasts?

 

[MelissaBaby]

I'd give an opinion on this issue, but I'm not here.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What does seem pretty clear is its market dominance - the next site gets only a tenth of Lit's traffic.

If you consider "the next site" to be SOL, yes. (According to similarweb, ~60M visits for Literotica vs. ~6M for SOL, and ~3M for lushstories).

But look over there: Ao3 has 418M visits. Erotica is only a percentage of what's on Ao3, but it's not a small percentage; if one was able to split out the portion of visits to Ao3 that are for adult content, I'd expect it to be pretty close to that 60M.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

There are certainly plenty of people who think they can usually/always tell. Here are a few of them:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539421272756703235

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538927970374537216

https://twitter.com/x/status/1526271449622663168

 

[ElectricBlue]

If you consider "the next site" to be SOL, yes. (According to similarweb, ~60M visits for Literotica vs. ~6M for SOL, and ~3M for lushstories).

But look over there: Ao3 has 418M visits. Erotica is only a percentage of what's on Ao3, but it's not a small percentage; if one was able to split out the portion of visits to Ao3 that are for adult content, I'd expect it to be pretty close to that 60M.

Fair comment. I know nothing of Ao3, never been there.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

If you consider "the next site" to be SOL, yes. (According to similarweb, ~60M visits for Literotica vs. ~6M for SOL, and ~3M for lushstories).

But look over there: Ao3 has 418M visits. Erotica is only a percentage of what's on Ao3, but it's not a small percentage; if one was able to split out the portion of visits to Ao3 that are for adult content, I'd expect it to be pretty close to that 60M.

AO3's own stats from April 2020 onwards show daily visits of 45M:

Average Daily WorksAverage Daily ChaptersAverage Daily CommentsAverage Daily KudosAverage Daily Page Views
April 4,551 13,731 100,916 697,047 48.2 mill

There's many many fandoms I know nothing of, but from those I do and their published lists of most popular fandoms and relationship pairings (top is Castiel/Dean Winchester from Supernatural with over 100k works, apparently), I'd expect the majority to be at least a bit erotic, and also the erotic works to be the most-read.

 

[Bramblethorn]

AO3's own stats from April 2020 onwards show daily visits of 45M:

Average Daily WorksAverage Daily ChaptersAverage Daily CommentsAverage Daily KudosAverage Daily Page Views
April 4,551 13,731 100,916 697,047 48.2 mill

There's many many fandoms I know nothing of, but from those I do and their published lists of most popular fandoms and relationship pairings (top is Castiel/Dean Winchester from Supernatural with over 100k works, apparently), I'd expect the majority to be at least a bit erotic, and also the erotic works to be the most-read.

I think that's page views rather than visits?

Similarweb estimates 7.7 page views per visit for Ao3 (as of ~now), so 418 visits/month would work out at about 100M page views/day.

Ao3 views have been growing pretty fast - looking at their 2020 data they were getting about 35-40M views/day in January 2020 and by December 2020 that was up to about 55M/day. Obviously part of that was pandemic bump, but even before that they were growing quite quickly from year to year. Taking that kind of growth forward to mid-2022, similarweb's 100M/day is probably in the ballpark.

On a quick search, there are about 9.3M stories total on Ao3, and about 1.5M of those are rated "explicit" (not all for sexual content, but I think mostly). If that ratio translates to the views, the explicit content on Ao3 would be getting about as many views as the stories here.

 

[ElectricBlue]

On a quick search, there are about 9.3M stories total on Ao3, and about 1.5M of those are rated "explicit" (not all for sexual content, but I think mostly). If that ratio translates to the views, the explicit content on Ao3 would be getting about as many views as the stories here.

Any clues as to the demographic? And story content and quality?

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Any clues as to the demographic? And story content and quality?

The vast majority of the content on AO3 is fanfic. I imagine it would skew a fair bit younger overall than Lit because of this.

 

[PennameWombat]

Any clues as to the demographic? And story content and quality?

The claimed minimum age for an AO3 account is 13. As Bramblethorn says, around 9.3 million stories, bit over 1 million listed as explicit.

According to discussions on reddit and other places, commentators consider AO3 to be of ”generally higher quality” than FFN (FanFictionNet, another big one that purged all of its erotic/adult stories years ago. It also bans various Real Person fanfic and for certain authors such as Anne Rice. AO3 allows Anne Rice fanfic.)

But, it’s also easy to find plenty of complaints about AO3 story quality. One is that it’s a “dumping ground” for various authors who originate stories elsewhere then dump them on AO3.

As to demographics, this is my hunch, but while it skews younger, there are plenty of older participants across certain fandoms.

Original (non-fandom) content isn’t barred from AO3, but all of its FAQs essentially say “no one’s here for it.”

 

[Bramblethorn]

Any clues as to the demographic? And story content and quality?

Backstory: around 2007, a couple of sites that were popular for fanfic had various censorship brouhahas, and Ao3 was founded as a response to that. The content policy is approximately "no censorship except for stuff likely to get us shut down". Unlike Lit, there's no pre-moderation, so people can post pretty much anything and it will only get taken down if reported and if the moderators decide it needs to go. I suspect they might have difficulties if a lot of people decided to push the boundaries but so far that doesn't seem to be a big thing.

In terms of basic writing quality, the bottom end of the pool is a bit below Literotica (since there's no rejection for atrocious SPAG etc.) but the high end is about the same. I suspect part of that is that fanfic has a fairly strong culture of beta-ing.

It's still fanfic-focussed, but it accepts non-fanfic works too. I've cross-posted several of my Literotica stories there. Hits seem to be driven by fandom but also very much by tags. I have a couple of fanfic stories there in moderately to very popular fandoms, but by far my most-read stories there are Red Scarf and The Floggings Will Continue, both original settings with sex-related tags. (As per previous discussions, Ao3 has a pretty well-developed tag navigation system so tags are more important there than here.)

Demographics: Similarweb estimates 52% female for Ao3 viewers, but as discussed above, I wouldn't put much faith in those numbers. I think Kumquatqueen's figure of 80% female for readers is likely closer to the mark; it's consistent with the authors I know there and with fanfiction generally. I'd agree with Wombat that it skews a fair bit younger than Literotica and politically a bit more to the left, but it's a big place and you can probably find anything there if you look hard for it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

There's many many fandoms I know nothing of, but from those I do and their published lists of most popular fandoms and relationship pairings (top is Castiel/Dean Winchester from Supernatural with over 100k works, apparently), I'd expect the majority to be at least a bit erotic, and also the erotic works to be the most-read.

And now I think about my own story stats over there, the stuff tagged with sex-related tags gets VASTLY more views than the rest (despite being no-fandom). Enough so that I wouldn't be surprised if more than half of the page views were erotica.

Shocking news: people crave smut!

 

[hulmule]

So i tried to view AO3, but didnt know how to navigate to find stories to read. Been on Lit for years, but if there are other sites like this please drop me a PM so i can explore them. Thx

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Hits seem to be driven by fandom but also very much by tags. ... Ao3 has a pretty well-developed tag navigation system so tags are more important there than here.

Demographics: I'd agree with Wombat that it skews a fair bit younger than Literotica and politically a bit more to the left, but it's a big place and you can probably find anything there if you look hard for it.

One thing I like about AO3 is the tags are unlimited in number (max 10 on Lit) come up in search results, so when you do a search you can check that there's nothing going to turn you off, but also the author can use them for random comments, eg 'no beta we die like men' or 'chapters 2-10 written, will post weekly'.

The standard is extremely variable. Assuming no-one under the age limit has an account, imagine some 13yos writing their first sexual fantasy, thinly disguised as Harry Potter characters. Yeah. And there's no minimum word limit, either.

At the other end of the scale, fic based on more erudite works like Dorothy Sayers or Mary Renault or actually most books rather than films, eg James Bond (Fleming), is generally of an exceptionally high standard. There tends to be a lot more humour, too.

I find filtering out anything shorter than 1500 words gets rid of most dross, then I can sort by kudos (essentially, by rating), or date starting with the oldest or newest.

Possibly half of works with sex are marked explicit?

There's also plenty of crackfic, ie when the premise of the story is described, the only answer is "are you on crack?", which often appeals to my sense of humour - polyamorous Care Bears, for example, or recently "what if a genius hacker hacked JK Rowling's Twitter account leaving lots of queer and trans friendly comments and she couldn't make it stop, and then ... and of course it's Q posting and all the geeks working at MI6 celebrate each time a tweet lands..."

Lit provides more generic erotica each day but it's hard to find characters and settings that aren't generic whitebread America. I'd love to be able to filter out terms like 'college'.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Lit provides more generic erotica each day but it's hard to find characters and settings that aren't generic whitebread America. I'd love to be able to filter out terms like 'college'.

God yes. I flicked into a first paragraph of something just the other day, and saw the words "term break" in the first sentence. I couldn't back out fast enough, and actually swore at my Kindle, "Jesus, you are fucking kidding me, another fucking story starting with an exposition dump!" With less than five minute's life experience? Save me!

I reckon Lit should adopt the same drinking age rule as in some (all?) US states, and make the minimum writing age twenty-one. That way we can only read what adults have to say about adults and leave teenagers alone completely. There should be an allowance for one "loosing your virginity" story, but that's it.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

God yes. I flicked into a first paragraph of something just the other day, and saw the words "term break" in the first sentence. I couldn't back out fast enough, and actually swore at my Kindle, "Jesus, you are fucking kidding me, another fucking story starting with an exposition dump!" With less than five minute's life experience? Save me!

I reckon Lit should adopt the same drinking age rule as in some (all?) US states, and make the minimum writing age twenty-one. That way we can only read what adults have to say about adults and leave teenagers alone completely. There should be an allowance for one "loosing your virginity" story, but that's it.

I might make an exception here for queer stories. There are some really well done coming out/first love stories with college/university settings, especially in the Lesbian category.

But yeah, all of the “Sorority Pillow Fight Orgy ch. 74” type stuff is tedious.

 

[PennameWombat]

I reckon Lit should adopt the same drinking age rule as in some (all?) US states, and make the minimum writing age twenty-one. That way we can only read what adults have to say about adults and leave teenagers alone completely. There should be an allowance for one "loosing your virginity" story, but that's it.

It's all 50 states now. It's an interesting history.

In 1971 the 26th Amendment to the US Constitution lowered the national voting age to 18. At that time, a few states had drinking ages under 21, some allowed 18/19 year olds beer and wine only, others were open. My native state never had nor ever will go under 21.

Through the 1970s, a number of additional states lowered their drinking ages to 18 or 19. For my youth, that a neighboring state did this led to various interesting occurrences.[1] But it was only slightly over half of the states that had drinking ages under 21.

That said, the fact that Americans are unable to do anything moderately, there was a claimed uptick in drunk driving accidents amongst the 'young'. A constant drumbeat finally resulted in the passage of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act in 1984. Now... something like regulation of drinking ages is one of the things devolved to the states, this federal law couldn't actually raise the drinking ages.

Instead, it told the states that if you didn't raise your drinking ages to 21 by October, 1986, the state would lose federal highway funds. "Really nice roads ya got in your state, be a shame anything happened to them..." A few states kicked and screamed, but eventually all of them conformed by 1988.[2]

[1] In my youth, my state's Highway Patrol would sit at the border to a state that had an 18 year drinking age. They'd look for two sorts. Obviously drunk drivers (weaving, etc.) And cars full of 'young' people. The first they'd pull over for the usual. The latter they'd pull over for, oh, "looks like your taillight is out" or "didn't signal lane change." Then... they'd insist on checking the trunk (boot) and if they found, as they hoped, a few cases of beer, they wouldn't arrest anyone. They'd make the folks in the car pour it all out. Then say "have a nice day."

[2] Prior to the 1980s, US military bases in the US allowed 18 year old soldiers to drink. But, like the broader society, that was upped through the decade to 21. US military bases outside of the US generally follow local age laws but local commanders can decide to limit to 21.

 

[MillieDynamite]

According to my dad, when he was a kid, women in Oklahoma over 18 but under 21 could buy beer. Guys of the same age range could not. Also, Oklahoma was wet by county, with many counties being dry. Moonshining was an old and honored tradition in the southeastern part of the state. Rumors abounded that much of the bourbon sold in Chicago, by none other than Al Capone, was purchased in Oklahoma. Aged in the barrel, just like Kentucky and Tennesee.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm curious as to why it matters what percentage of women are here?
Rhetorical-because men need to know because they're stuck at 14 "uh huh uh huh huh" a girl writes smut, bet I can score uh uh...she wrote cock. uh huh huh huh.

Case in point of why some of them who are here looking to just write read and post without feeling dirty use male names.

Before I start getting crap from the boy's club, keep in mind I write under a female pen name in the market...I know what women deal with in the erotica realm.

 

[HeyAll]

I'm curious as to why it matters what percentage of women are here?
Rhetorical-because men need to know because they're stuck at 14 "uh huh uh huh huh" a girl writes smut, bet I can score uh uh...she wrote cock. uh huh huh huh.

Case in point of why some of them who are here looking to just write read and post without feeling dirty use male names.

Before I start getting crap from the boy's club, keep in mind I write under a female pen name in the market...I know what women deal with in the erotica realm.

This thread is now 3 pages.

Using a different stat in the headline could have resulted in a 1 or 2 page thread.

Writing a thread title is like writing a story title, isn't it?

 

[Lifestyle66]

I reckon Lit should adopt the same drinking age rule as in some (all?) US states, and make the minimum writing age twenty-one. That way we can only read what adults have to say about adults and leave teenagers alone completely. There should be an allowance for one "loosing your virginity" story, but that's it.

Even among "adults" over the age of 21, there are vastly different emotional states and experiences that come with age.

Maybe stories should somehow be rated in groups based on age ranges like polling data: "This story is for the 25-35 year olds, and should be avoided by the 50-60 year olds."

 

[SimonDoom]

There should be an allowance for one "loosing your virginity" story, but that's it.

And one for "tightening one's virginity"?