When your marriage has 2 very different sexual appetites, what to do

[adamISOeve]

@Wishingbox, I see you have a mighty constructive attitude on this, much better than mine, and I wish you luck, once more.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

...as far as name goes, It used to be Goblin. (Or maybe G_Goblin, I forget). I had forgotten the password for my old account as well as the email info, so I had to come up with a new username. The "Elite" came from the name of a physical fitness award that my sports club would present once a year. I got this award whenever I took the test, despite being the oldest in the club.
So anyway, the name is just a placemarker for me. No sexual meaning thereof. I would rather use my real name, but we all know that is not possible for many of us.

I appreciate the posting of Wishingbox, because I see the same issues with my relationship. It helps bounce around ideas. Maybe something works for him that I could try.

Right now, I am just about done weeding out potential therapist to go see. The one I like the most is a guy (he can also speak english!), but my wife doesn't trust a male-therapist to give her an honest counsel.
There is a man-woman therapy team, which would be great. But they don't speak too much english. It sounds like they would count on my wife to sometimes translate for them. This means that I may not be able to have a private council or I will have to trust my wife to tell me things properly. My past experience is that she will misconvey the information to me, or tell me one thing then flip-flop on it later. ("I never said that".) I need to be able to stand on my own 2 feet.
The last one is a woman therapist, but waiting to find out, if she speaks english.

Absolutely none of this is easy. But I know how my wife can love me when/if she wants to. She (and me) just need some tune-ups.

It doesn't help that I talked to my mom about it the other day. (I have never talked to her about my sexual life before, so this is rare). I told her that I am feeling neglected in the intimacy/sexual department and that my wife seems uncaring for me. Mom says, yea I know what you mean. If we (mom and dad), don't have sex twice a week, then dad starts feeling neglected. WTF?!?! I WISH I had that attention twice a week! I am lucky for twice a month with vanilla! Go mom and dad in their late 70's. But each person gets what they get. Even mom and dads.

>>skip over the vent<<
Wifey tries to get a little closer sometimes, but I have lost interest. What if I get excited and reach my hand to her inner thigh? or breasts? My hands have been pushed away too many times. Too many times being offered the cheek and not the lips for kissing. Too many times that arms fold across her chest, if I try any foreplay whatsoever. I am broken right now. I never felt like this before. I am looking so forward to going to a therapist, even if it is just for me. Until then, I go for long, daily walks. 2,3, maybe 4 hours at a time. Listening to music that I liked when I was a teenager. Being in my own world and trying to not think about how lonely I am. Just looking at the ground in front of me as I take the next step to wherever my body is pointing. Wishing that a smiling woman would apear and welcome my touch. Enjoying my touch. Confident and embracing her sexuality. Good grief! Time to get walking! I will at least see some smiling, attractive women on my walk.
>>end vent<<

 

[Wishingbox]

...as far as name goes, It used to be Goblin. (Or maybe G_Goblin, I forget). I had forgotten the password for my old account as well as the email info, so I had to come up with a new username. The "Elite" came from the name of a physical fitness award that my sports club would present once a year. I got this award whenever I took the test, despite being the oldest in the club.
So anyway, the name is just a placemarker for me. No sexual meaning thereof. I would rather use my real name, but we all know that is not possible for many of us.

I appreciate the posting of Wishingbox, because I see the same issues with my relationship. It helps bounce around ideas. Maybe something works for him that I could try.

Right now, I am just about done weeding out potential therapist to go see. The one I like the most is a guy (he can also speak english!), but my wife doesn't trust a male-therapist to give her an honest counsel.
There is a man-woman therapy team, which would be great. But they don't speak too much english. It sounds like they would count on my wife to sometimes translate for them. This means that I may not be able to have a private council or I will have to trust my wife to tell me things properly. My past experience is that she will misconvey the information to me, or tell me one thing then flip-flop on it later. ("I never said that".) I need to be able to stand on my own 2 feet.
The last one is a woman therapist, but waiting to find out, if she speaks english.

Absolutely none of this is easy. But I know how my wife can love me when/if she wants to. She (and me) just need some tune-ups.

It doesn't help that I talked to my mom about it the other day. (I have never talked to her about my sexual life before, so this is rare). I told her that I am feeling neglected in the intimacy/sexual department and that my wife seems uncaring for me. Mom says, yea I know what you mean. If we (mom and dad), don't have sex twice a week, then dad starts feeling neglected. WTF?!?! I WISH I had that attention twice a week! I am lucky for twice a month with vanilla! Go mom and dad in their late 70's. But each person gets what they get. Even mom and dads.

>>skip over the vent<<
Wifey tries to get a little closer sometimes, but I have lost interest. What if I get excited and reach my hand to her inner thigh? or breasts? My hands have been pushed away too many times. Too many times being offered the cheek and not the lips for kissing. Too many times that arms fold across her chest, if I try any foreplay whatsoever. I am broken right now. I never felt like this before. I am looking so forward to going to a therapist, even if it is just for me. Until then, I go for long, daily walks. 2,3, maybe 4 hours at a time. Listening to music that I liked when I was a teenager. Being in my own world and trying to not think about how lonely I am. Just looking at the ground in front of me as I take the next step to wherever my body is pointing. Wishing that a smiling woman would apear and welcome my touch. Enjoying my touch. Confident and embracing her sexuality. Good grief! Time to get walking! I will at least see some smiling, attractive women on my walk.
>>end vent<<

>> Vent
Ugh I feel you on the rejection and interpretation of affection. I’ve been trying to give her a little more space during what I consider peak prickly periods doing dishes, cleaning, which I get it’s not as good a time for her. But last week she has a break got changed and was in front of the mirror so I came up behind for just a quick little hug and a peck and was it and she bucked me off so fast with no comment just bodily response. It’s so difficult not to interpret those gestures as rejection or repulsion. I’m ok I get that maybe you weren’t in the mood but did you have to respond so harshly. And then you hit this low of feeling so worthless and undesired. I feel you.

>> Therapy

I think you and your wife have completely valid individual requests in what you want in a therapist. You want to make sure you or your wife’s words are misconstrued between you and the therapist. It’s also super important for a therapist to be able to pick up on the specific words you’re using because you may be subconsciously saying something which can only be detected in the nuance of language. Having your wife or a translator mess with that nuance will hinder transparency.

Likewise there is nuance and can be bias in what we hear or recommend based on personal perception. You’re wife (maybe like mine) has accepted the “men-horny” and “girls-not” misconception. So your wife may be afraid you’ll have a therapist who is skewing the sessions towards the cliche “woman need to be more sexual” and “men have needs” etc.

Also since this is coming from you a male asking her to change it may feel like she needs an ally in the conversation. A good therapist should be able to be relatively neutral.

But it’s important that if you are to go together that you both feel like you can trust, be vulnerable and ask the therapist to mediate in the words and desires.

I think both of your requests are reasonable.

 

[Wishingbox]

Perhaps in some ways these are tests of each other prior to therapy.

I have known and unknown fears/emotion which lead me to prefer “this”.

The test then becomes:

Are you willing to hear and respect my request even if we don’t understand or agree with why the other person wants it?

This is very much what the therapy would be. Each of your requests is the expression of the feelings you both are experiencing. The feelings are very real even if the reasons may not warrant the feelings.

So first we must respect and handle with care the requests especially if they’re uncomfortable, we disagree, feel hurt, or are repulsed etc. Then slowly peal back each others layers of why did you request this, why are you feeling that way, is there something in your life or past that contributes to you feeling that way.

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Bpar721971]

I’d say the downtime is more like 3-4 month….

i've had that frequency occur occasdionally over the last 15 years. I feel your pain. Mind if i pm you?

 

[Bpar721971]

The capacity of (not) understanding is unbelievable. I told my hubby once that i wouldn’t initiate sex anymore since he was so rude when rejecting me. He interpreted it as ”you don’t want to ever have sex with me again and you want to divorce me”…. I still don’t understand how he came to that conclusion?

The capacity of (not) understanding is unbelievable. I told my hubby once that i wouldn’t initiate sex anymore since he was so rude when rejecting me. He interpreted it as ”you don’t want to ever have sex with me again and you want to divorce me”…. I still don’t understand how he came to that conclusion?

I tried talking to my wife about it on several occasions. i usually get some fly redponse, or a not now i'm no watching my recorded shows or rolling eyes at me. i tried to discuss therapy and she i needed it not her. lady time i tried to talk to her about it, she suggested we divorce. i don't know how she came to that conclusion.

 

[Forest_Fun]

i've had that frequency occur occasdionally over the last 15 years. I feel your pain. Mind if i pm you?

That’s ok but I’m not sure what I can help you with, though. I mainly wrote to let the ladies in this thread know that there are several of us here. Usually I’m on Reddit (subreddit called deadbedroom) when I feel the need to vent. Lots of ladies there and quite a lot of good answers (some not so good though, but that’s internet I guess).

 

[Wishingbox]

In somewhat related news, I found a video the other night about highly sensitive people and sex.

My wife identifies as a highly sensitive person or HSP. There are a few good bocks on the topic and essentially it’s a person who processes extra data on situations and is easily overstimulated. This contributes to her sexual breaks and distracts.

She’s admitted she doesn’t have fantasies around sex and never really say dreams of runs through sexual fantasies in her mind. She’s much more sexually reactive. She enjoys it when we’re into it but doesn’t necessarily anticipate it.

In the video he talks about demisexual. That resonates with my wife. We discussed it a bit last night because she watched the video.

We discussed how it can be difficult to relate but having some of this language at least makes it easier to differentiate between thinking “this is how sex should be, you’re broken/gross” and “this is how I interpret sex and sensuality differently than you so I’m not judging your liking or not liking this/that”

Basically we’re trying to foster a non judgmental attitude towards each-other’s sexual styles (like we do in other areas). I think it’s working.

Eventually we discussed the topic of fantasies and the video mentioned swinging. My wife was like I can’t understand that at all. She was so fixated on the emotional attachment of sex. After going back and forth for a while she became much more accepting of the idea that emotional attachment to sexual connection is a spectrum.

I gave some examples of physical pleasure but no emotional attachment. I started with a massage which is physical pleasure and could be sensual but is not emotionally connecting.

We talked a lot more about sex with other people and how hurt she would be if I did. She guessed that I would probably be for an open relationship if she would let me and she doesn’t get that.

I admitted that I honestly don’t know. There are fantasies and then there is real life. Fantasies are safe and there not drama or hurt feelings so I don’t know if I could ever do it and then come home if she knew I was out having sexual and be like “hey honey how was your evening”. That would be a buz kill because her emotional reaction would hurt.

But then the conversation pivoted to her asking wouldn’t it hurt me if I knew she was with someone. I it depends. I said my fantasy, again not that I’d actually be able to do it, center around giving her pleasure and I wouldn’t want to leave and come back I’d want to have you be part of it because “you’re pleasure turns me on”.

She was like “well it would have to be a girl” kind of jokingly and I said that would be ideal but I could think of a couple possibilities of s guy working.

Anyway the whole night was interesting. She didn’t seem super hurt or overly outraged but it all just mostly feeling like she couldn’t relate.

After that we went to bed and she was super cuddly (but on her period) so nothing happened.

Interesting

Glad we had the conversation.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

On Friday, I brought up the therapist deal to her. Told her that it was a couple. She agreed to go with me there. Yay!!!

That night, even though on her period, she let me have some boob play and also gave me a BJ. During boob suckling, she rubbed her finger on my cock head and put some precum in my mouth, then on her lips. She asked what I though about it. I told her that she should try to not swallow all of it, and let me have some. At the end of the BJ, she pulled out immediately, and mechanically wanked me off. As soon as I stopped, she threw a towel on me to clean up. So, that was an abrupt end to something that was going nicely. I was not too surprised. During the foreplay, I asked if she noticed that I had comlpetely shaved. (2 months ago). She said, "no, and don't try to give me any hints at what I should do". 1. Why the attitude? 2. So what if you did shave sometime? (she is pretty bare anyway)

Saturday, she already started to rethink the therapist idea. She said that she did not want to tell the therapist everything and some things should be private. I explained it is like going to the doctor. The doctor asks what is wrong or where does it hurt, and you tell him. It does not work, if you are not honest with the doctor or stay silent. No more was said.

Sunday. We went out to a nice lake with lots of people around. Lounging around or going for a swim in the lake. Would have been nice to cuddle on the towel while under the shade of a tree, but I know where she stands on that issue. Later that night, she was a little frisky. I could tell that it was just an affection thing that would not lead up to sex, but that is OK, I liked it anyway. I told her that I was imagining I was at the lake with her under the tree. That was it! She turned into Mrs. Hyde creating arguements. How dare I even think of something some primordial. She asked how is it that we are supposed to talk to a therapist when we cannot even talk to each other. She wanted solutions from me. I told her that I was not going to say anything, because I am not the professional. That is why we need to go.

So, unless she backs out. I am soooo happy that we are going. Either we are on the road to reflect and repair, or our separate roads. Just knowing that a change is coming feels great. Good news is that the therapists also does separation therapy too.

...and Wishingbox....my wife would do the same thing in front of a mirror with me coming up behind her.
I am so tired of this ridiculous attitude towards affection, playfulness, and sex. Thank god we go to a therepaist in a couple weeks!

 

[Wishingbox]

On Friday, I brought up the therapist deal to her. Told her that it was a couple. She agreed to go with me there. Yay!!!

That night, even though on her period, she let me have some boob play and also gave me a BJ. During boob suckling, she rubbed her finger on my cock head and put some precum in my mouth, then on her lips. She asked what I though about it. I told her that she should try to not swallow all of it, and let me have some. At the end of the BJ, she pulled out immediately, and mechanically wanked me off. As soon as I stopped, she threw a towel on me to clean up. So, that was an abrupt end to something that was going nicely. I was not too surprised. During the foreplay, I asked if she noticed that I had comlpetely shaved. (2 months ago). She said, "no, and don't try to give me any hints at what I should do". 1. Why the attitude? 2. So what if you did shave sometime? (she is pretty bare anyway)

Saturday, she already started to rethink the therapist idea. She said that she did not want to tell the therapist everything and some things should be private. I explained it is like going to the doctor. The doctor asks what is wrong or where does it hurt, and you tell him. It does not work, if you are not honest with the doctor or stay silent. No more was said.

Sunday. We went out to a nice lake with lots of people around. Lounging around or going for a swim in the lake. Would have been nice to cuddle on the towel while under the shade of a tree, but I know where she stands on that issue. Later that night, she was a little frisky. I could tell that it was just an affection thing that would not lead up to sex, but that is OK, I liked it anyway. I told her that I was imagining I was at the lake with her under the tree. That was it! She turned into Mrs. Hyde creating arguements. How dare I even think of something some primordial. She asked how is it that we are supposed to talk to a therapist when we cannot even talk to each other. She wanted solutions from me. I told her that I was not going to say anything, because I am not the professional. That is why we need to go.

So, unless she backs out. I am soooo happy that we are going. Either we are on the road to reflect and repair, or our separate roads. Just knowing that a change is coming feels great. Good news is that the therapists also does separation therapy too.

...and Wishingbox....my wife would do the same thing in front of a mirror with me coming up behind her.
I am so tired of this ridiculous attitude towards affection, playfulness, and sex. Thank god we go to a therepaist in a couple weeks!

I really hope you both are able to go and that it helps give you both lots of clarity.

I’m realizing more and more as my wife have been talking that we both have a lot of preconceptions about sex and sensually and we both need to learn a lot about ourselves.

it’s tricky know why we’re emotionally responding to something. It is insecurity related, social programmed, biological wiring etc.

We both are trying to understand it and not jump to judging the other for their being the way they are. Less judging more accommodating.

I like analogies. It’s like we’re two islands and we’re trying to visit each other to love and feel loved. We can try building bridges to each other islands but unless we’re speaking a shared language and agree on terms we’re going to get frustrated when our bridges don’t line up. Oh you built a suspension bridge, oh you used centimeters not inches… I just assumed…

Fingers crossed she feels comfortable and is able to build a healthy level of trust with you and the therapist.

 

[Wishingbox]

Ps I also literally did the same thing shaving and then seeing how long it would take for my wife to notice. She didn’t say anything and didn’t notice for a while. Which I then too lead to an argument.

This is the type of self awareness I’m trying to be better at.

1. I did it partly for self exploration but also as a test.

2. A test I honestly knew she would probably fail at.

3. Then I used that in a conversation argument to point to her not seeing and wanting me.

I realize that’s part of an unhealthy communication method for me. It means we couldn’t be direct or being direct isn’t working. It means I felt insecure about feeling desired. It’s true I need to be more secure but that could be helped too if my wife verbalized that I’m attractive even when she’s not feeling up.

Anyway I’m trying to be better about not testing her then reacting emotionally to her failing. I’m realizing more and more that self awareness is really hard. Let alone being able to talk about this stuff or having someone care to listen.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

Ps I also literally did the same thing shaving and then seeing how long it would take for my wife to notice. She didn’t say anything and didn’t notice for a while. Which I then too lead to an argument.

This is the type of self awareness I’m trying to be better at.

1. I did it partly for self exploration but also as a test.

2. A test I honestly knew she would probably fail at.

3. Then I used that in a conversation argument to point to her not seeing and wanting me.

I realize that’s part of an unhealthy communication method for me. It means we couldn’t be direct or being direct isn’t working. It means I felt insecure about feeling desired. It’s true I need to be more secure but that could be helped too if my wife verbalized that I’m attractive even when she’s not feeling up.

Anyway I’m trying to be better about not testing her then reacting emotionally to her failing. I’m realizing more and more that self awareness is really hard. Let alone being able to talk about this stuff or having someone care to listen.

The other night, it was 85 deg. F in our bedroom at bedtime. I had pulled my shirt way up high and the covers were down a little. She noticed my nipple piercing and started asking if I got a larger size, because it looked larger. I nearly laughed. "Nope, it's always been this size." Perhaps the 4th or 5th time she has seen it in about 2 years. No wonder she does not know what size it is or was. Well, she did not want to see it anymore. Ha!

I was also called wierd, for sleeping without underwear. Yes, it is 85F in our bedroom at night. No air conditioner! Wifey slept with an armoured bra AND a tee shirt, in addition to underwear & shorts (maybe socks too). Ummm, who is the wierd one here? Good grief!

I shave cuz I like it. (Actually use an IPL device most of the time). But it also serves as a litmus test to see how long, or if she even notices. Like your wife, mine does not notice, nor care. I could paint my penis green and she would never notice, however if my hair (on my head) gets a little too long for her tastes, she will let me know ASAP. I think, though, that I will be letting it grow out a bit again, as I like it like that.

 

[votadini]

Hi, Lit newbie here, drawn to these sadly-familiar tales of woe. So much of what has been written above resonates with me. I've been with my wife for 15 years. We have what I would characterize as a "4x" gap - I would like sex every 3-4 days, she seems happy with once or twice a month.

It isn't necessarily the frequency that is most important though, it's the *interest*. It's just always so low on her priority list. If we have a (very rare) night without the kids, she wants a nice meal, maybe a run or walk in the park, a drink in a bar, to watch a movie together, brunch together the following day, etc., etc., but sex is usually just not important enough to fit it into the schedule.

Our cycle for the last several years has been something like this:
- great sex rekindles the bond for about 10 days
- this gradually wears out and I start to get "scratchy"
- she acknowledges that I need it, but doesn't want to tonight because of [something]
- I resolve to just handle it myself just for relief and in order not to put her under pressure, but she gives a little indication that she's interested, so I don't
- we still don't have sex, so I get annoyed with myself that I got my hopes up (again)
- towards the end of the month, I'm so horny that I can't even go to bed with her at the same time, so I usually end up on the couch for a few hours late into the night just to let it pass until she's asleep
- I lose all hope and interest and am consumed by apathy
- recognizing the apathy, she initiates sex and the cycle starts again

I've long since learnt that initiating sex is not effective. If I give a long lead-time, for example by telling her at lunchtime how I want to strip her, spank her ass (she likes it), and fuck her senseless tonight, she *hates* the pressure of a scheduled appointment with the expectations associated, so it doesn't work. On the other hand, if we go to bed and I start to slip a hand under her clothes, she usually pushes my hand away.

We have spoken about it countless times, but we can't find a solution that sticks. We've had perfunctory sex sometimes to appease me, but her obvious lack of interest is such a turn-off that it's frankly a horrible experience.

She says that I need to be more interested in the other things we can do as a couple - walks in the park, lunch out, etc. I feel that even when I do, there's little impact from my perspective.

I should point out that I think I'm a generous lover. I bought a massage table and learnt the full body massage techniques in order to help her relax. I learnt how to perform a pedicure, made a body scrub with her favorite fragrances, and gave her the full spa treatment. She *never* goes without an orgasm, and I have found her G-spot.

I don't even need full sex most of the time, just some sexual attention. I introduced chastity into our relationship as a way to "repackage" our situation, so that low-frequency sex was a feature not a bug. I needed her to participate by playing an active, rather than passive role in denying me, but it all just withered away in a few weeks. She just wasn't interested.

I love my wife with all my heart, and she is my best friend. We share common interests, take care of each other in many ways, and I would like to spend the rest of my life with her. However, I spend too much of my time in a deep despair at our sex life, and am increasingly aware that once the kids grow up and leave home, things may have to change.

 

[Lucy_Lastic]

I think my parents have it down.

He likes golf and his vinyl collection. She's had boyfriends for as long as I can remember. She's open about it, they sometimes stay in the spare room, he's happy.

 

[Wishingbox]

Hi, Lit newbie here, drawn to these sadly-familiar tales of woe. So much of what has been written above resonates with me. I've been with my wife for 15 years. We have what I would characterize as a "4x" gap - I would like sex every 3-4 days, she seems happy with once a month.

It isn't necessarily the frequency that is most important though, it's the *interest*. It's just always so low on her priority list. If we have a (very rare) night without the kids, she wants a nice meal, maybe a run or walk in the park, a drink in a bar, to watch a movie together, brunch together the following day, etc., etc., but sex is usually just not important enough to fit it into the schedule.

Our cycle for the last several years has been something like this:
- great sex rekindles the bond for about 10 days
- this gradually wears out and I start to get "scratchy"
- she acknowledges that I need it, but doesn't want to tonight because of [something]
- I resolve to just handle it myself just for relief and in order not to put her under pressure, but she gives a little indication that she's interested, so I don't
- we still don't have sex, so I get annoyed with myself that I got my hopes up (again)
- towards the end of the month, I'm so horny that I can't even go to bed with her at the same time, so I usually end up on the couch for a few hours late into the night just to let it pass until she's asleep
- I lose all hope and interest and am consumed by apathy
- recognizing the apathy, she initiates sex and the cycle starts again

I've long since learnt that initiating sex is not effective. If I give a long lead-time, for example by telling her at lunchtime how I want to strip her, spank her ass (she likes it), and fuck her senseless tonight, she *hates* the pressure of a scheduled appointment with the expectations associated, so it doesn't work. On the other hand, if we go to bed and I start to slip a hand under her clothes, she usually pushes my hand away.

We have spoken about it countless times, but we can't find a solution that sticks. We've had perfunctory sex sometimes to appease me, but her obvious lack of interest is such a turn-off that it's frankly a horrible experience.

She says that I need to be more interested in the other things we can do as a couple - walks in the park, lunch out, etc. I feel that even when I do, there's little impact from my perspective.

I should point out that I think I'm a generous lover. I bought a massage table and learnt the full body massage techniques in order to help her relax. I learnt how to perform a pedicure, made a body scrub with her favorite fragrances, and gave her the full spa treatment. She *never* goes without an orgasm, and I have found her G-spot.

I don't even need full sex most of the time, just some sexual attention. I introduced chastity into our relationship as a way to "repackage" our situation, so that low-frequency sex was a feature not a bug. I needed her to participate by playing an active, rather than passive role in denying me, but it all just withered away in a few weeks. She just wasn't interested.

I love my wife with all my heart, and she is my best friend. We share common interests, take care of each other in many ways, and I would like to spend the rest of my life with her. However, I spend too much of my time in a deep despair at our sex life, and am increasingly aware that once the kids grow up and leave home, things may have to change.

1 for 1 can relate.

Thanks for sharing and welcome to the club. You’re not alone and there’s nothing wrong with you or even her for that matter.

The “I resolve to just handle it myself but then wait… and be disappointed” is a rough cycle.

And the gross putty sex is so disappointing and ultimately I think harmful to our psyche.

I don’t know that you’ll find a “fix” here but for us I feel like things are improving somewhat. Doing the work to truly know yourselves and each other will help.

Your wife sounds very similar to mine. Her love language is quality time, she is an HSP (so she’s overwhelmed and stressed easily) which leads to breaks being pressed and she’s somewhere in the demisexual spectrum. A lot of these big learnings have come from researching, reading and taking openly about things more recently than before.

I was pretty shocked to hear she doesn’t recap ever fantasizing about sexual acts. She might imagine more tame things like snuggling, kissing, or nuzzling my beard but even then not in an overly erotic sense. Having that level of self awareness for both of us is helping.

We’re both projecting a lot of how we each think and perceive sexual into the other person. That pressure is not helpful and hurtful things have been said over the years.

So I’m working through personally trying to be less codependent on her, feeling less shame around my sexually, sharing more of my thoughts and ideas around sex and being ok with whatever her response is. I don’t need her to agree but I am trying to help her not be as critical or even repulsed because she isn’t hearing the ideas while in a state of arousal.

Anyway I’m finding self discovery and improved communication helpful these days.

Who knows if it will increase our sex although that would be nice that’s not my main goal or focus. I’m approaching it from the perspective of personal improvement and seeing where we land.

 

[Wishingbox]

A lot of these stories are similar to my previous marriage. Sexual appetites that seemed so compatible initially, ended up diverging as work, family and children got in the way. Goes from multiple times a week to once a month if lucky. And the frustration grows and grows, accompanied by resentment and temptation.

The solution is being brutally honest with yourself. What are you willing to accept? If the current situation is going to be it for the next ten to twenty years, are you ok with that? Because you can’t assume that all of those issues will eventually go away.

Once you know what you want, then you have the brutal conversation with your partner. This is absolutely the worst conversation I ever had, and it was completely necessary. I didn’t want to accept the status quo, and all of the other options on the table (counselling, opening up the relationship, libido enhancers) were rejected.

So the marriage ended, and here I am, single dad to two kids. It’s tough and I am getting even less sex now lol, but it’s better in the long run than festering in bitterness for a decade or more.

I guess my approach right now (and this is no judgment to your approach by the way) is that I need us both to truly know why we want or don’t want more or less sex.

I genuinely love thinking about and exploring sex especially with my wife as my companion in this journey. There are areas of exploration that she has said are a no go and I’m willing to accommodate with those in most ways. It seems like it’s completely ok to expect the higher drive individual to comply with the needs of the lesser drive but when the ask is reversed its perceived as “this is just how I am” and “you’re just a horn dog”.

It doesn’t feel like we’re meeting half way. But a lot of that seems to stem from her feeling hopeless about changing anything and mixed with some accepted expectations which she believes but never really thought through. “You just don’t do that it’s wrong”. But the reality is as we explore some of this it turns out she doesn’t think it’s wrong but just accepted the stigmas that we’re handed to her.

So I’m trying to get to the bottom of why we want what we want from ourselves and each other. Only then can we say we properly explored it.

I don’t want to come in with an ultimatum. That’s won’t help us any more than her simply saying “don’t watch porn or I’m out”.

 

[adamISOeve]

@votadini, Thank you for sharing so openly your observations on the cyclicality of your wife’s tormenting behavior. I cannot see it any other way, because it is so damn predictable. And neither can I see any possible attempt on your part, to understand her better, leading to an agreeable outcome. I am talking of smart books now or therapy sessions.

Some wives – and now and then some husbands too – seem quite satisfied with “locking up” a partner as their very own, and then “rationing out” erotic intimacy to them. Like your wife is doing it to you. Usually by relying on children as the decisive trapping mechanism. After all, the strange moralism of most of society is supporting them in their ways.

And you appear to have realized also, what the ultimate solution will be in your case. My suggestion: don’t wait too long with it. Children are often surprisingly resilient, once they are old enough to develop empathy with the spouse getting cheated out of intimacy.

And banditesque has taken this step earlier than you, and apparently it has not knocked him dead either. Congratulations btw, banditesque, for having the courage for the only kind of talk that helps in such cases. And for living with the consequences. Good luck to you !

 

[Elite_Goblin]

My first marriage ended because of a wife that lost sexual affection after about a decade of marriage. About the only good thing was that she loved to swallow! But that was not enough to keep things together.

A new wife and 23 years later....same thing. This time we are lining up therapy at the end of August (pending schedules).

@votadini, I am in that same cycle too. I am sure the therapist can help us out, if only my wife will heed their recomendations. (I will do whatever they suggest).

 

[votadini]

A lot of these stories are similar to my previous marriage. Sexual appetites that seemed so compatible initially, ended up diverging as work, family and children got in the way. Goes from multiple times a week to once a month if lucky. And the frustration grows and grows, accompanied by resentment and temptation.

The solution is being brutally honest with yourself. What are you willing to accept? If the current situation is going to be it for the next ten to twenty years, are you ok with that? Because you can’t assume that all of those issues will eventually go away.

Once you know what you want, then you have the brutal conversation with your partner. This is absolutely the worst conversation I ever had, and it was completely necessary. I didn’t want to accept the status quo, and all of the other options on the table (counselling, opening up the relationship, libido enhancers) were rejected.

So the marriage ended, and here I am, single dad to two kids. It’s tough and I am getting even less sex now lol, but it’s better in the long run than festering in bitterness for a decade or more.

Plenty of resentment here! I'm not at the temptation phase yet, but I can certainly see how that could happen. At least I am inspired to take action by the comments on this thread. Some of the books recommended above might help offer some solutions, I think the major challenge will be to gain Mrs V's active participation. How ironic.

I'm impressed that you had such courage in your convictions to have taken such bold steps. I hope you find everything you are looking for good luck!

 

[KatieDoes]

Hi, Lit newbie here, drawn to these sadly-familiar tales of woe. So much of what has been written above resonates with me. I've been with my wife for 15 years. We have what I would characterize as a "4x" gap - I would like sex every 3-4 days, she seems happy with once or twice a month.

It isn't necessarily the frequency that is most important though, it's the *interest*. It's just always so low on her priority list. If we have a (very rare) night without the kids, she wants a nice meal, maybe a run or walk in the park, a drink in a bar, to watch a movie together, brunch together the following day, etc., etc., but sex is usually just not important enough to fit it into the schedule.

Our cycle for the last several years has been something like this:
- great sex rekindles the bond for about 10 days
- this gradually wears out and I start to get "scratchy"
- she acknowledges that I need it, but doesn't want to tonight because of [something]
- I resolve to just handle it myself just for relief and in order not to put her under pressure, but she gives a little indication that she's interested, so I don't
- we still don't have sex, so I get annoyed with myself that I got my hopes up (again)
- towards the end of the month, I'm so horny that I can't even go to bed with her at the same time, so I usually end up on the couch for a few hours late into the night just to let it pass until she's asleep
- I lose all hope and interest and am consumed by apathy
- recognizing the apathy, she initiates sex and the cycle starts again

I've long since learnt that initiating sex is not effective. If I give a long lead-time, for example by telling her at lunchtime how I want to strip her, spank her ass (she likes it), and fuck her senseless tonight, she *hates* the pressure of a scheduled appointment with the expectations associated, so it doesn't work. On the other hand, if we go to bed and I start to slip a hand under her clothes, she usually pushes my hand away.

We have spoken about it countless times, but we can't find a solution that sticks. We've had perfunctory sex sometimes to appease me, but her obvious lack of interest is such a turn-off that it's frankly a horrible experience.

She says that I need to be more interested in the other things we can do as a couple - walks in the park, lunch out, etc. I feel that even when I do, there's little impact from my perspective.

I should point out that I think I'm a generous lover. I bought a massage table and learnt the full body massage techniques in order to help her relax. I learnt how to perform a pedicure, made a body scrub with her favorite fragrances, and gave her the full spa treatment. She *never* goes without an orgasm, and I have found her G-spot.

I don't even need full sex most of the time, just some sexual attention. I introduced chastity into our relationship as a way to "repackage" our situation, so that low-frequency sex was a feature not a bug. I needed her to participate by playing an active, rather than passive role in denying me, but it all just withered away in a few weeks. She just wasn't interested.

I love my wife with all my heart, and she is my best friend. We share common interests, take care of each other in many ways, and I would like to spend the rest of my life with her. However, I spend too much of my time in a deep despair at our sex life, and am increasingly aware that once the kids grow up and leave home, things may have to change.

I dont mean to call you out specifically, your post was just the most succinct at describing this common complaint, so I used it.

If anyone is interested in a woman’s perspective on this…


Just as you can tell when your wife is disinterested in sex, just going through the motions to appease you…. She can absolutely tell when you‘re doing the same regarding her needs. Women typically need to feel connected intimately before they want sex. So if she can tell that her husband is only pretending to care about her needs as a precursor to sex, it feels like a transaction. A transaction that doesn’t make her want to fuck.

I see a lot of men in these forums who are very upset that their wives aren’t fucking them. I don’t really see men who are concerned with their wives needs, or wondering why they aren’t happy, or how they can help them do anything other than fuck.

 

[Elite_Goblin]

I found out that the therapist does not have time for us next week. The next available time that we can go (since we have no sitter) is in September! We need an apointment soon!

We were having a good time last night, but it turned sour before my happy ending. Had sex 3 times in July and only once did I cum. (all over myself, as she did not even try to swallow)

 

[Wishingbox]

I dont mean to call you out specifically, your post was just the most succinct at describing this common complaint, so I used it.

If anyone is interested in a woman’s perspective on this…


Just as you can tell when your wife is disinterested in sex, just going through the motions to appease you…. She can absolutely tell when you‘re doing the same regarding her needs. Women typically need to feel connected intimately before they want sex. So if she can tell that her husband is only pretending to care about her needs as a precursor to sex, it feels like a transaction. A transaction that doesn’t make her want to fuck.

I see a lot of men in these forums who are very upset that their wives aren’t fucking them. I don’t really see men who are concerned with their wives needs, or wondering why they aren’t happy, or how they can help them do anything other than fuck.

I hear you. And that’s is a very valid point.

But at the same time why can’t woman have sex with their husbands more to meet our needs so we could do things more to for the purpose connecting instead of making it transactional.

It’s two sides of the same coin. Just give it away so we don’t have to pay for it would also go a long way to alleviate feelings of transactions.

That’s not intended to be mean and is slightly cheeky.

I can’t speak for anyone else but many of us talk about how our wives are our best friends. I know I am very present and attentive to my wife emotionally, relationally and regularly check in on stress levels etc. 90% of the time I do these things because I enjoy them and care for her. However we’re expected to show up emotionally multiple times every day but there’s always some excuse for no sex that night instead of admitting it was actually because they didn’t make it a priority and save energy or headspace for us.

So then we say to ourselves oh well if it was just THAT thing then I can try and be better about helping out. Eventually the THAT thing list gets pretty long and everyone is confused as to what’s a transaction and what was being done genuinely.

It’s can feel transaction because it was turned into one.

I’m super down for removing the transactional elements so by all means let our wives know to just start having more non conditional sex and we’ll start doing everything from the goodness of our hearts.

 

[KatieDoes]

I hear you. And that’s is a very valid point.

But at the same time why can’t woman have sex with their husbands more to meet our needs so we could do things more to for the purpose connecting instead of making it transactional.

It’s two sides of the same coin. Just give it away so we don’t have to pay for it would also go a long way to alleviate feelings of transactions.

That’s not intended to be mean and is slightly cheeky.

I can’t speak for anyone else but many of us talk about how our wives are our best friends. I know I am very present and attentive to my wife emotionally, relationally and regularly check in on stress levels etc. 90% of the time I do these things because I enjoy them and care for her. However we’re expected to show up emotionally multiple times every day but there’s always some excuse for no sex that night instead of admitting it was actually because they didn’t make it a priority and save energy or headspace for us.

So then we say to ourselves oh well if it was just THAT thing then I can try and be better about helping out. Eventually the THAT thing list gets pretty long and everyone is confused as to what’s a transaction and what was being done genuinely.

It’s can feel transaction because it was turned into one.

I’m super down for removing the transactional elements so by all means let our wives know to just start having more non conditional sex and we’ll start doing everything from the goodness of our hearts.

Again, you’re looking for how to make women have sex they don’t enjoy, instead of how to make sex enjoyable for them.

Sex should not be viewed as something that women give and men take. It’s something that two people do together.

I can’t speak for your specific wives, and I don’t know your precise situation. But I know a lot of women, and close women friends speak very openly with each other. There’s a very common theme among women 40+ years old, married 15-20+ years, and its that we’re done giving. Women, especially married women, and most especially married moms, take on SO MUCH emotional and mental labor. On top of the physical demands of managing a household, raising children and working, we end up responsible for the mental load of keeping everything running smoothly. In many (many!) cases, their husbands behave as though their contribution of having a job is the only thing they should be responsible for. So women end up overwhelmed, stressed, and feeling as though they have an additional child instead of a full partner. I see men here all the time talking about how they ‘help out at home when they can’….. meanwhile, if their wife only took care of the home and kids when she ‘could’ the kids would be feral and everyone would starve to death in squalor. ‘Helping out’ doesn’t mean completing the list that she creates for you. It means not needing a list, paying attention to what needs done, and doing it.

So we lose ourselves to take care of everyone else’s needs. Sex isn’t enjoyable when your life is full of chores to attend to everyone else’s needs and at the end of the day, after giving to everyone else, you crawl into bed with a taker that acts entitled to take one more thing from you before you can fall asleep. It ends up just one more chore on an endless chore list.

Often, we do it to keep the peace. One more thing we give to meet someone’s needs and keep things running smoothly. Studies show that while hetero men achieve orgasm 95% of the times they have sex, for their partners its closer to 65% of the time. So women are out here giving of themselves all day every day, and ending their day by giving their bodies to their husbands in exchange for a 65% chance that we might get our needs met as well?

So. We do what is best and right and expected to meet everyones needs and keep things running smoothly. Then we get our kids to the point where they become more and more self sufficient. Finally, they grow up to the point where our lives aren’t spent providing care for them. But this husband still in the house doesn’t become more self sufficient. Instead of rising to the occasion and taking on more of the household with the time saved from childcare, he continues on expecting her to do most of it. When the kids leave the nest and they reach retirement age, he gets to retire from his one big responsibility, while she still has to maintain doing most of hers.

When womens needs are ignored and dismissed and downplayed for years, eventually they run out of fucks to give. Figuratively and literally.

 

[Wishingbox]

I hear you both. And I totally realize there are plenty of men out there who show up exactly as you described.

I’m not one of those guys. I’m an outstanding father and spouse emotionally and responsibility wise.

Expecting a spouse to be a mind reader is complete BS. It would be awesome if we didn’t need lists or need to vocalize our needs whether it’s sex, intimacy, quality time, compliments, co-parenting, cleaning, free time etc.

We both constantly go out of our way to help and try to anticipate the needs of the other however at the end of the day each person has to vocalize their needs.

Being frustrated that you want someone to help you but not vocalizing is self distractive. Everyone enters relationships with social baggage and false expectations as to what they should do and be. I can say it a million times let me help but at the end of the day if you choose to silently play hero and suffer I can’t help.

And to be clear that’s not been expressed as the issue within my marriage and I check in on this regularly to make sure she doesn’t feel pressured in her role and that she knows I’m here to help and willing to make any changes necessary to assist etc.

In my case it’s become clear she is more demisexual with a responsive sexual type where I’m a spontaneous sexual type.

She doesn’t get sexually activated by typically sexual things and doesn’t and never has fantasized about sex. She relies on connection and me to physically activate her drive.

 

[Wishingbox]

So I hear what you’re both saying but there are cases where we’re all in as husbands and it comes down to the other person making it a priority to own their sex in the same way a husband has to own his role as spouse and father. No amount of nagging, supporting or coercion from the other will adjust those.

So I’m not arguing against you per say just that there are men who are doing what you’re saying and that’s not enough. It’s a choice the partner has to willing make.