The suspension of disbelief paradox in erotic fiction

[AlexBailey]

So, I’ve got my first story pending (although I’ve written a lot of smut in the past, just not here). Thankfully, two of my beta readers called me out on a section where I glossed over the moment where my characters went from potential lovers to actually starting to go through with it.

This has always been the hardest moment for me in writing smut. The writer and the reader both know that sex is a forgone conclusion. But I want to get there in a way that’s believable, that doesn’t pull the reader out of the moment and make them question the characters coming together.

How do you make a certain outcome feel natural? How do you judge veracity at key moments where people could make a whole range of decisions other than the one that leads them to the outcome that both the writer and the reader desire? What’s the margin of error for suspension of disbelief?

These questions fascinate and frustrate me. More than the buildup, more than the sex itself, I think that moment between the two is the defining factor for a good erotic story.

Hi there!

I just finished reading Juxtapositions.

I have no criticism about the believability of your story, especially since I've been in many very similar situations, including staying in random crash-pads while playing clubs. I was a lot like Seth back in my 20s, even wore a fishnet bodysuit under my torn up jeans.

The quick transition from sitting next to each other to necking could happen in a beartbeat, especially if a third person sees the tension and attraction between two others and says in effect, "What are you waiting for?" Been there.

That said, many readers may need a bit more work-up to it. Not everyone can relate to a scene where the participants are already horny AF and just need a bell to start the race.

I wrote a part-fictional autobiography with several parts that are true but seem far more difficult for some to swallow than anything you put in your story. I saw your post in AwkwardMD's thread, I'll add some more thoughts about your piece after she reaponds.

 

[gunhilltrain]

In the past, I have found it difficult to suspend my disbelief with some written gay porn. I'd see works, for example, that were written in a way that would completely take me out. Without writing a whole pleasantly-worded, lengthy write-up about what I mean and all the ways I couldn't "believe" what I have read before... it was kind of like I was reading the work of virgins who hadn't done their research.

Of course, you don't have to have sex to write about sex. You don't have to fight in a war to write about it. It can help, but it's not required. You can never assume a writer's level of experience, especially when they are damn good at writing about it. But, there are instances where I have seen someone write about an experience so poorly, that it really makes me stop thinking about the story and start believing that the writer knows nothing about a convincing, sexual/sensual experience.

Lots of writers are simply far removed from the realm of non-hetero sex. Especially fan-writers. Gay, lesbian, multiple partners, whatever. (I won't get any other labels in here.) But, some of them are competent enough to represent something wonderful through some form of research & passed-down info, plus lots of writing experience. Mostly, there are those who don't have this and write crap.

Most stuff out there is crap. Same is true for any genre of writing. But, in the case of me failing to suspend disbelief for the sake of erotic writing? Be a straight person and try to write gay porn (a romance, even). I'll likely see that in the writing itself, and it will not be sexy or engaging.

I feel a challenge coming on. I wrote a single gay story with a BDSM theme in it and, if you believe that the numbers mean anything, I got a 4.44 with 57 votes. So what am I? If Kinsey is to be believed, most of us are at least a bit bi-sexual. If I had to put a number on myself, I'd say I'm 90% straight. (Actually, at my advanced age, sex with anybody seems unlikely now.) The story is not at all romantic, and it is not based on anything I've actually done; it's purely a fantasy somewhat influenced by a few videos I've seen. So what do you think?

Tom's Tale

 

[AlexBailey]

I see you around a lot. You're a pretty experienced writer, so that alone is an asset!

I say it amounts to basic perspective-taking, which any good writer does. If you write about a straight, divorced, middle-aged man who has been down for a while because his kids don't talk much, then you try to imagine that situation and write this man as if you can feel him. Write how he should behave. This might be easier for a lot of people to do because they have been exposed to a character like this a thousand times.

The stories I read that did poorly seemed to fail on perspective-taking overall. I felt like I was reading about a caricature of a gay man. Usually a twink, since that's what the writer was probably attracted to. It was like reading about someone who had absolutely zero character except for loving cock and balls, because the writer had no idea that The Gays have personalities just like everyone else does.

So, that's the first thing. Everyone has a unique "character" (personality). Without it, I feel like I'm just reading bullshit, and I could've just pulled up PornHub for the same result.

As for your specific question: what would impel an adult man who has identified as straight to have a gay encounter?

This is so common.

This man has just gone to a new place-- this is the perfect opportunity to fuck a man, where none of his friends, his family, his coworkers, nobody can possibly know. Straight men on the DL, including married men, will do this anyway in their own hometowns, but it is even easier to imagine that being temporarily displaced can provide new opportunities.

If this is a convention, it can attract all kinds of other men that he otherwise would not have met. Maybe he came from an isolated location, or it's a very close-knit community. Too close-knit.

The reasons why many straight-identified men have sex with other men are multiple, but they come down to a couple key factors. These men are not closeted gay or bisexual men. They are typically comfortable in their hetero- romantic attraction towards women and have no current intentions of changing that. They have no interest in embedding themselves in the "gay community." There is also no correlation of straight men fucking men and internalized homophobia.

Instead, many straight men who do this do it because they just like it. They like that sex with men seems easier to get. Some have reported that they will only receive anal sex from men, and if they wanted to give penetration, then they'll just have sex with a woman instead.

Of course, some don't want to receive anal penetration. Different men like different things.

Some enjoy the ease of getting a fling with another man. Many find men distinctly "different" from women, so having sex with them must be a different experience, right? (Most people believe that men and women are distinct groups, so you'll find this opinion about gay sex and how men suck cock differently or whatever littered fucking everywhere in the GLBT forum category here, too. Even though everyone's mouths are the same.)

Some are married, but are not enjoying sex with their wives anymore, so they remain emotionally & romantically loyal... while sexually engaging with men. (They may believe that it is only really cheating if there is more than sex involved, like going on dates or professing love.) A few men might tell their wives about this, but most overwhelmingly keep it a secret.

Whatever the reason that compels your character, know that it's totally plausible for him to have this fling in this scenario. And guys will have it in all sorts of places. Hotel/motel room. Car. Bathroom. In a particular park at night. Yadda yadda. But, just know that just because he identifies as straight, that doesn't mean this is a roadblock. That has nothing to do with it.

If anything, it is only one facet of a man's sexual identity. Him finally having an excuse to partake in something that he has been wanting to try for some time? That's another facet.

Another thing on the list of why a straight male would be interested in a gay experience:

Vanity/ego. Wanting the attention and knowing they are attractive to men. One of my sons is this way.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Hi there!

I just finished reading Juxtapositions.

I have no criticism about the believability of your story, especially since I've been in many very similar situations, including staying in random crash-pads while playing clubs. I was a lot like Seth back in my 20s, even wore a fishnet bodysuit under my torn up jeans.

The quick transition from sitting next to each other to necking could happen in a beartbeat, especially if a third person sees the tension and attraction between two others and says in effect, "What are you waiting for?" Been there.

That said, many readers may need a bit more work-up to it. Not everyone can relate to a scene where the participants are already horny AF and just need a bell to start the race.

I wrote a part-fictional autobiography with several parts that are true but seem far more difficult for some to swallow than anything you put in your story. I saw your post in AwkwardMD's thread, I'll add some more thoughts about your piece after she reaponds.

I’ve read your story. I got a warm and lovely magical realism vibe. You could feel the grounding in reality, but with a heightened/fairytale sheen.

The part that I had to work on a bit was after Lisa’s entry and getting things restarted. “Accidental threesome” can be such a cliche, so I was very critical of how I navigated that to keep it from being too porny.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Another thing on the list of why a straight male would be interested in a gay experience:

Vanity/ego. Wanting the attention and knowing they are attractive to men. One of my sons is this way.

That's not always it. I think I believe the concept that many of us are at least a bit bi-sexual. (I think Kinsey said that, but I'd have to find the reference.) That may not mean that I'd actually do it. Even as a fantasy, it only works as being far, far younger (like forty to fifty years maybe) than I am now. Even straight fantasies - it may be "ageist," but hey, shrug - start to end around the imagined age of, maybe fifty-five or sixty. At sixty-seven (just passed that birthday three days ago) I can no longer imagine my present self in any fantasy.

 

[TheRedChamber]

My mother knew my pre-teen son loved things with wheels, like motorcycles, so she bought him a vhs tape (I'm old)...

"Sturgis Motorcycle Rally"

He loved it...

Not American or into bikes, so this was a new one on me. Just spent an instructive half-an-hour on YouTube. If I ever do a coast-to-coast US tour, I'll add it to the iternary.

 

[36b7]

May I also add to your 'vague titles' suggestion that writers avoid detailed physical descriptions of their characters. If a male character is an athlete that's all I need and similarly for female characters, we don't need their vital statistics.
Erotica lives in the mind and in the imagination otherwise it's just porn.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

May I also add to your 'vague titles' suggestion that writers avoid detailed physical descriptions of their characters. If a male character is an athlete that's all I need and similarly for female characters, we don't need their vital statistics.
Erotica lives in the mind and in the imagination otherwise it's just porn.

Over description is such a killer. The moment I see a bra size is usually the moment that I nope out of a story.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

A couple friends of mine do sexuality research. Apparently if a man hasn't had any form of same-sex encounter by age 18, or 21 at the most (that's a very vague category, often just ogling then wanking afterwards), it's extremely rare for him to have one later in life. Whereas women have often never considered a woman yet may suddenly think about it and give it a try in their forties, fifties, sixties...



Having a prostate is an obvious answer to why a man would want to be penetrated, but that's different to wanting to be fucked by a man. On Lit, a man getting pegged or fingered tends to lead to another chapter where he's made to or desperate to have a penis up his arse, whereas in real life there seems to be a much larger category of men who like arse play but don't want another man involved.

Lit gay stories tend to be from the perspective of an inexperienced man who ends up bottoming - First Times of all sorts are popular with writers and readers but I'm not sure why there aren't also many about "my first time sticking my dick in a guy"?

I suspect it's similar to the female fantasy of wanting to be 'swept away' and 'taken' and not having to worry about a thing because the partner is looking after everything and making it all right. See: any romance novel, 50 Shades, etc. In Nancy Friday's books of female sexual fantasies, there was a huge change in the prevalence of the Swept Away fantasy from the early 70s to the early 90s - it seemed that once women felt permitted to want and ask for sex, rape fantasies and being taken plummeted in popularity compared to more wild ones. Maybe the same will happen with men now that being queer is socially acceptable?

 

[000zing]

May I also add to your 'vague titles' suggestion that writers avoid detailed physical descriptions of their characters. If a male character is an athlete that's all I need and similarly for female characters, we don't need their vital statistics.
Erotica lives in the mind and in the imagination otherwise it's just porn.

Extremely true... and interesting what a huge percentage of Lit. "stories" are made up by just such porn. It doesn't take much research into the archives to see this.

Even more interesting is the way that some on these fora try to ignore this self-evident fact of life on Lit., as if they wish to persuade themselves and others that this place is far more highbrow and "cultural" than it really is.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Kumquatqueen's post did not include men who just have a stick up their ass.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Extremely true... and interesting what a huge percentage of Lit. "stories" are made up by just such porn. It doesn't take much research into the archives to see this.

Even more interesting is the way that some on these fora try to ignore this self-evident fact of life on Lit., as if they wish to persuade themselves and others that this place is far more highbrow and "cultural" than it really is.

When you've written something, come back and tell us how to write.

Meanwhile, we'll be as pretentious as we want to be.

As an aside, I've had a number of commenters say about my writing, "This is not the norm around here" - so some readers at least are looking for something other than, "just porn". But hey, I'm a wanker, so what would I know?

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

When you've written something, come back and tell us how to write.

Meanwhile, we'll be as pretentious as we want to be.

As an aside, I've had a number of commenters say about my writing, "This is not the norm around here" - so some readers at least are looking for something other than, "just porn". But hey, I'm a wanker, so what would I know?

I did ponder setting my title here to “Unrepentant art wanker”

 

[ElectricBlue]

I did ponder setting my title here to “Unrepentant art wanker”

Excellent. A very Oz thing to do .

We'll go to an art gallery next. That will really do 000zing's head in. You know, modern art. Kandinsky and all that shit.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Over description is such a killer. The moment I see a bra size is usually the moment that I nope out of a story.

Maybe I've lived a sheltered life, but for most of my own life, I had no idea of how to judge a woman's bra size. I figured that it only was something women needed to know when actually purchasing a bra, and that was about it.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Excellent. A very Oz thing to do .

We'll go to an art gallery next. That will really do 000zing's head in. You know, modern art. Kandinsky and all that shit.

Ooooh! Fucking in front of Blue Poles at the National Gallery!

Another story to add to my list of things to write…

 

[gunhilltrain]

Not American or into bikes, so this was a new one on me. Just spent an instructive half-an-hour on YouTube. If I ever do a coast-to-coast US tour, I'll add it to the iternary.

To digress a bit, motorcycles have declined a bit in popularity recently, but they have been a huge part of American culture for decades. That ranges all the way from "one-percenter" gangs to kids on dirt bikes, with electric bikes/scooters now in the mix. Now that the weather is warmer, I'll see groups of twenty or more kids going up my block on dirt bikes and ATVs (four-wheel all-terrain vehicles), many of them doing "wheelies" (riding on the back wheels only) for as long as they can keep that going. Out on the parkway, in the middle of the night, I'll hear "regular" bikes going up the straight section at what must be incredible speeds.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Excellent. A very Oz thing to do .

We'll go to an art gallery next. That will really do 000zing's head in. You know, modern art. Kandinsky and all that shit.

Now my brain is stuck in an Aussie Erotica Ideas loop.

Harold Holt Seduced by Mermaids.

 

[MelissaBaby]

When you've written something, come back and tell us how to write.

Those who can, do. Those who can not, bitch.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Kumquatqueen's post did not include men who just have a stick up their ass.

In my experience, that is not limited by gender or orientation, but I can't judge for whom it is most prevalent.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Ooooh! Fucking in front of Blue Poles at the National Gallery!

Another story to add to my list of things to write…

How about under the yellow peril on a cold Melbourne night?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Now my brain is stuck in an Aussie Erotica Ideas loop.

Harold Holt Seduced by Mermaids.

I had to look up that reference. So is the mermaids idea your own contribution?

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

I had to look up that reference. So is the mermaids idea your own contribution?

It would certainly make for an interesting conclusion to one of the most compelling mysteries in Australian political history.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Now my brain is stuck in an Aussie Erotica Ideas loop.

Harold Holt Seduced by Mermaids.

Nah, I've already done the mermaid thing, set it up the far north coast of NSW, on the Lennox Head Seven Mile Beach - my Songs of Seduction - Water.

Also: Harold Holt? Isn't that just... odd?

 

[LiverpoolMaster]

A couple of small questions prompted by certain comments on this thread: is there a rule on this forum (which I, for one, haven't noticed) requiring any participant to have "published" (!) material on Literotica? If not, perhaps there's a lesser rule stating that people who have chosen not to do so may be treated as some kind of lesser mortal and their comments as automatically of inferior value? Just wondering.