Zelenksy opens door to making neutral status part of peace deal

[pecksniff]

Story.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Sunday that his country would consider neutral status as part of a peace deal if such an agreement was guaranteed by third parties and put to a referendum.

"Security guarantees and neutrality, non-nuclear status of our state. We are ready to go for it. This is the most important point," Zelensky said, according to Reuters.

Zelensky also said that his country was considering using Russian language in Ukraine as part of its talks with Russia, but the president refused to discuss Moscow's other demands.

I'm not entirely clear what this means. Is it a commitment that Ukraine won't join NATO?

 

[LupusDei]

Yes. Well, at least as long Putin stays in power...

As to official status for Russian language, it's not that crazy, but currently just trolling of the highest order as he says it only goes if Russia agrees on similar status for Ukrainian language in Russia.

Zelensky also said that he won't sit to talks in with demilitarization or "denazification" are still part of discussion.

Territorial concessions may be on the table, but would have to be ratified in country wide referendum after Russian army had left the internationally recognized borders of Ukraine -- that includes Crimea. So, it's effectively saying nope without saying nope.

Those peace talks are farce from both sides. Neither is yet ready to accept anything less than complete capitulation of the other.

 

[pecksniff]

Yes. Well, at least as long Putin stays in power...

As to official status for Russian language, it's not that crazy, but currently just trolling of the highest order as he says it only goes if Russia agrees on similar status for Ukrainian language in Russia.

That sounds not unreasonable, on both sides.

Zelensky also said that he won't sit to talks in with demilitarization or "denazification" are still part of discussion.

Does "demilitarization" mean Ukraine can no longer have an army but Russia can?

 

[KeithD]

Yes, that's what Ukrainian demilitarization would mean. A nonstarter considering no possibility of faith in Russian "promises" of anything.

I'd push for requirement of a regime change in Russia. Gaff or not, Biden's declaration that a regime change was necessary establishes his position whether or not the United States pulls the wording back, and I think Moscow got that message. A good message to get out there. Give those in Moscow with any shred of power/access maximum incentive to give Putin the chop.

 

[LupusDei]

As to official status for Russian language, it's not that crazy, but currently just trolling of the highest order as he says it only goes if Russia agrees on similar status for Ukrainian language in Russia.

That sounds not unreasonable, on both sides.

Ha! In theory, it indeed isn't. But you seem to forget at least one side here are die hard nazi, had already decided the other to be a non entity without a right to exist and would take such a suggestion as insult.

 

[pecksniff]

Ha! In theory, it indeed isn't. But you seem to forget at least one side here are die hard nazi, had already decided the other to be a non entity without a right to exist and would take such a suggestion as insult.

Doesn't Russia already extend language rights to a lot of non-Russian minorities?

 

[LupusDei]

Doesn't Russia already extend language rights to a lot of non-Russian minorities?

Not in official status on federal level.

Russia is known as "prison of the nations." Over 100 languages are spoken there. None individually exceeding 3% (Tatar) of population but collectively approaching half recently (demographic trends aren't in Russian favor). Few have "autonomous republics" (currently rather tightly controlled centrally appointed governorships) where local language may or may not be allowed in a handful of schools.

Ethnic Russians however see minorities with disdain. Those are also more predominantly rural and poorer than more urbanized Russians.

 

[Rightguide]

Ha! In theory, it indeed isn't. But you seem to forget at least one side here are die hard nazi, had already decided the other to be a non entity without a right to exist and would take such a suggestion as insult.

I wonder if Zelensky is thinking about pushing Russia out of Ukraine altogether. He has them on the run.

 

[LupusDei]

I wonder if Zelensky is thinking about pushing Russia out of Ukraine altogether. He has them on the run.

Oh, thinking, certainly. If they could manage it would be great. They eventually could, but...

Long ago, like in the middle of the third day, I said to someone: if Kyiv will stand the fifth day, there will be third week, and if there will be third week Ukrainians will take Sevastopol around midsummer. My assessment haven't much changed. I don't really see how it may happen sooner, and that's a long way to go. And each day has costs in lives.

I also worry a bit about resilience of certain limited capabilities. Their air defense may run too reduced, or their ability to sustain long range firepower. Sure, they replenish the artillery by captures to an extent, but that's not something you want to rely on.

Also, a serious large scale attack over the southern steppe need local air superiority or it's madness. As soon they retake Kherson (may happen next week) they need those additional planes.

 

[Dribble]

This assumes a Referendum passes...which will never happen. Russia has burned their bridges. No one will vote to give Russia another chance

 

[Rightguide]

Oh, thinking, certainly. If they could manage it would be great. They eventually could, but...

Long ago, like in the middle of the third day, I said to someone: if Kyiv will stand the fifth day, there will be third week, and if there will be third week Ukrainians will take Sevastopol around midsummer. My assessment haven't much changed. I don't really see how it may happen sooner, and that's a long way to go. And each day has costs in lives.

I also worry a bit about resilience of certain limited capabilities. Their air defense may run too reduced, or their ability to sustain long range firepower. Sure, they replenish the artillery by captures to an extent, but that's not something you want to rely on.

Also, a serious large scale attack over the southern steppe need local air superiority or it's madness. As soon they retake Kherson (may happen next week) they need those additional planes.

I think Zelensky should be given every chance of kicking the Russians out altogether. They are in a level of disarray not seen since the Afghanistan debacle. Putin has lost, according to NATO sources, 16,000 dead and three times that number wounded, captured, or deserted. He lost hundreds of armored vehicles and tanks with no apparent capability of resupply or troop replacement. Our position should be all about Ukraine winning and pushing the Russians back into Russia, and not about negotiation.

 

[pecksniff]

I think Zelensky should be given every chance of kicking the Russians out altogether. They are in a level of disarray not seen since the Afghanistan debacle. Putin has lost, according to NATO sources, 16,000 dead and three times that number wounded, captured, or deserted. He lost hundreds of armored vehicles and tanks with no apparent capability of resupply or troop replacement. Our position should be all about Ukraine winning and pushing the Russians back into Russia, and not about negotiation.

But consider the positions here -- the Ukrainians want this war to end a lot more than the Russians do. They're the ones whose civilians are suffering, in more than an economic-sanctions belt-tightening way.

 

[Rightguide]

But consider the positions here -- the Ukrainians want this war to end a lot more than the Russians do. They're the ones whose civilians are suffering, in more than an economic-sanctions belt-tightening way.

They also want the Russians out and their country back. They'll never have this chance again. Stay on the attack