What if Hitler had won WWII?

[pecksniff]

There have been a lot of Hitler-Putin comparisons floated lately, so this is worth considering.

Despite what was said in Allied war propaganda at the time, Hitler's immediate war-aim was not world conquest. His aim was to create a Greater Germanic Reich. Poland and Russia would be conquered, and all surviving residents not of German blood would be driven east of the Urals, and their territory colonized by Germans. Then, Germany would be a continental power on par with the United States. Hitler envisioned a final struggle with the U.S. for world supremacy -- in the generation after his death. (This is based on Hitler's writings and speeches, including his "Second Book," unpublished in his lifetime; you can read all this in Modern Times, by Paul Johnson.)

The best literary SF/AH treatment I have seen of this scenario is not Philip K. Dicks' The Man in the High Castle, but Robert Harris' Fatherland. In the latter, the U.S. and the UK remain unoccupied and independent as of 1964, and are in a Cold War with the Third Reich.

 

[Wrong Element]

Nazi Germany would have had nuclear weapons before long, which is a complicating factor considering Hitler in the end proved to be more than willing to see Germany die along with him.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Hitler would also have wanted to conquer France. In Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter XIV, "Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy," he wrote, "the mortal enemy of our nation, France, relentlessly throttles us and robs our strength. We must undertake every sacrifice which may help bring about a nullification of the French drive for European hegemony."

 

[KeithD]

What if Donald Trump had won a second term? (*shudder*)

 

[KeithD]

Hitler would also have wanted to conquer France. In Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter XIV, "Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy," he wrote, "the mortal enemy of our nation, France, relentlessly throttles us and robs our strength. We must undertake every sacrifice which may help bring about a nullification of the French drive for European hegemony."

Hitler did conquer France. Thanks mostly to others than France, he didn't keep it.

 

[pecksniff]

Hitler would also have wanted to conquer France. In Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter XIV, "Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy," he wrote, "the mortal enemy of our nation, France, relentlessly throttles us and robs our strength. We must undertake every sacrifice which may help bring about a nullification of the French drive for European hegemony."

Hitler did at least temporarily conquer France. "The Greater Germanic Reich" would have included only northeastern France, plus Belgium and the Netherlands -- all territory to which Germany had a historic claim as a successor state to the Holy Roman Empire. (Also Denmark, Sweden and Norway, as being Nordic countries.) The remainder of France, and other states in Western Europe, would have been left quasi-independent as German vassals.

 

[pecksniff]

In Fatherland, the point-of-divergence is that the Germans succeed in taking the Caucasus, supplying themselves with petroleum and, more importantly, depriving the Soviets of it.

 

[The_Trouvere]

What if Donald Trump had won a second term? (*shudder*)

The only thing we can be sure of is that if he had Republican majorities in both houses of Congress, he would have cut taxes for the rich again. He claims Russia would not have invaded Ukraine. I think Russia would have invaded, believing that there would have been no American response.

 

[pecksniff]

What if Donald Trump had won a second term? (*shudder*)

Trump is not Hitler. He lacks the imagination. If Trump were Hitler, his ambition would be to conquer Mexico, exterminate or expel the Mexicans, and settle the territory with white Americans. And also, of course, the Canschluss.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Trump is not Hitler. He lacks the imagination. If Trump were Hitler, his ambition would be to conquer Mexico, exterminate or expel the Mexicans, and settle the territory with white Americans. And also, of course, the Canschluss.

LOL...the shit that southpaws talk themselves into.

 

[pecksniff]

LOL...the shit that southpaws talk themselves into.

Am I wrong? That's how Hitler would think if he were POTUS.

 

[Dribble]

Trump is not Hitler. He lacks the imagination. If Trump were Hitler, his ambition would be to conquer Mexico, exterminate or expel the Mexicans, and settle the territory with white Americans. And also, of course, the Canschluss.

Although true...he is nothing but a pawn...those pulling his strings, however do not. Trump only worships money....of which he really has none

 

[pecksniff]

Although true...he is nothing but a pawn...those pulling his strings do not. Trump only worships money....of which he really has none

Who's pulling his strings? I've been hearing that for five years and never seen a plausible answer. The ruling class does not really like him -- he's not one of them. He's not Social Register material. And he knows that and is overcompensating for it, like Napoleon overcompensated for his sense of inferiority -- not physical, but social -- to his aristocratic classmates at the military academy.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Am I wrong? That's how Hitler would think if he were POTUS.

Okay, I misread your post. Mea culpa

 

[KeithD]

Trump is not Hitler. He lacks the imagination. If Trump were Hitler, his ambition would be to conquer Mexico, exterminate or expel the Mexicans, and settle the territory with white Americans. And also, of course, the Canschluss.

I didn't post that Trump was a Hitler in capability. (I didn't actually post any comparison between Hitler and Trump at all) That said, I put Trump in the Hitler, Mussolini, and Putin group. Anything required to erase him from the scene is fine with me. And I do think Trump needs to be erased from the scene for us to move forward.

 

[KeithD]

Who's pulling his strings? I've been hearing that for five years and never seen a plausible answer. The ruling class does not really like him -- he's not one of them. He's not Social Register material. And he knows that and is overcompensating for it, like Napoleon overcompensated for his sense of inferiority -- not physical, but social -- to his aristocratic classmates at the military academy.

Well, Putin for one, pulls Trump's strings. He's been doing it right out in the open. If you haven't seen that, you are willfully blind to it.

 

[pecksniff]

Well, Putin for one, pulls Trump's strings. He's been doing it right out in the open. If you haven't seen that, you are willfully blind to it.

I would not be at all surprised if Putin does have a lot of kompromat on Trump, not limited to the "pee tape." Trump, in his real-estate days, was always thick with New York's Russian Mafiya, and they would have reasons to be in communication with Putin.

 

[KeithD]

I would not be at all surprised if Putin does have a lot of kompromat on Trump, not limited to the "pee tape." Trump, in his real-estate days, was always thick with New York's Russian Mafiya, and they would have reasons to be in communication with Putin.

Anyone who is still at the "would not be at all surprised" level on Putin's ownership of Trump isn't fully using whatever personal observation and assessment brain power they have.

 

[pecksniff]

Of course, there is also the inescapable fact that Trump openly admires Putin.

Out of envy, I should think. Why can't Trump be an autocrat?! Why should the Russian leaders have all the fun?!

 

[Rightguide]

Hitler would also have wanted to conquer France. In Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter XIV, "Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy," he wrote, "the mortal enemy of our nation, France, relentlessly throttles us and robs our strength. We must undertake every sacrifice which may help bring about a nullification of the French drive for European hegemony."

He did that.

 

[Rightguide]

I didn't post that Trump was a Hitler in capability. (I didn't actually post any comparison between Hitler and Trump at all) That said, I put Trump in the Hitler, Mussolini, and Putin group. Anything required to erase him from the scene is fine with me. And I do think Trump needs to be erased from the scene for us to move forward.

This is why you get laughed at. Trump was in no way a dictator or did anything that would put him into the same category as the three dictators you mentioned.

 

[pecksniff]

This is why you get laughed at. Trump was in no way a dictator or did anything that would put him into the same category as the three dictators you mentioned.

And boy, did that gall him. See post #19.

 

[Rightguide]

And boy, did that gall him. See post #19.

Yes, I already know you "openly" lie to people.

 

[pecksniff]

Yes, I already know you "openly" lie to people.

You don't believe Trump would be a dictator if he could?

Of course you believe that. Please do not "openly" lie by trying to deny it.

 

[Rightguide]

You don't believe Trump would be a dictator if he could?

Of course you believe that. Please do not "openly" lie by trying to deny it.

It isn't possible in America.