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Trump took documents so sensitive that they cannot even be described to the public Breaking a slew of laws

KeithD said:
He was. But he didn't leave for Mar-a-Lago until the night before Biden was sworn in. It's all irrelevant anyway. The records created on government time belong to the government, by law, not the individual president. These aren't Trump's records. When he destroyed or walked off with them, he was illegally handling government property. Of the great multitude of cases building against Trump, this is going to be one of the easiest ones to get him for.
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exactly... he wasn't permitted to rip up, destroy, burn or 'lose' anything, but did so with impunity, fully expecting to continue with his corrupt presidency
 
Rightguide said:
Nothing is going to happen because of it. Obama and every other President in recent memory have done the same thing. Yes, he has the ultimate authority. All classification authority stems from the President's plenary authority to determine what is classified and what isn't.
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That doesn't mean he has the right to take classified/government documents with him. Any president for that matter.
 
Even if he suffers no official consequences, it will keep him from being re-elected.
 

so sensitive that they cannot even be described to the public​


Are they about Fight Club?
 
KeithD said:
He was. But he didn't leave for Mar-a-Lago until the night before Biden was sworn in. It's all irrelevant anyway. The records created on government time belong to the government, by law, not the individual president. These aren't Trump's records. When he destroyed or walked off with them, he was illegally handling government property. Of the great multitude of cases building against Trump, this is going to be one of the easiest ones to get him for.
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Ummmmm....the point I was making is if the records were taken prior to Biden being sworn in, then the Fascist traitor is guilty....again
 
Comshaw said:
As I said: "Of course, I don't really expect a well thought out civil reply, but I'm always hopeful." Dude, you need to chill. You aren't going to get a rise from me, get me to come down to your level by using such transparent and childish insults. Anyone with a bit of intelligence reading such an exchange as this can tell who makes the best point.

Besides those insults, let me address what you did say.

"Shouldn't have" isn't a criminal offense." If you will be so kind as to again read my post, I never said it was. I said it wasn't ethical or intelligent. So are you saying that the act of taking those files was? Would you see it that way if it were Biden? If not, why not?

Of course if Biden did the same everyone would expect the Secret Service to retrieve them, but what oh what would be your total response if Biden did? Would you give it a shoulder shrug as you have with the donald, or an extended insult laced rant? Be honest.

I didn't equate the sensitive docs with a note passed in class; I did equate the HANDLING of those docs to the HANDLING of a note passed in class. I believe your lack of comprehension of what I said, or blatant red herring fallacy on this point, doesn't hold up.

Comshaw
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For all your bluster about not getting a rise out of you, you sure spent a long time drafting your reply given the size of it.

Why is that?
 
HisArpy said:
For all your bluster about not getting a rise out of you, you sure spent a long time drafting your reply given the size of it.

Why is that?
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lol You spent the same amount of words chastizing butters.
 
Dribble said:
Ummmmm....the point I was making is if the records were taken prior to Biden being sworn in, then the Fascist traitor is guilty....again
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Of what?

At the time Trump was President, his "office" was wherever he was at any given moment. Thus, having classified docs at Mar A Lago is perfectly ok. The fact that the docs were there after he left office is a stain on the government for failing to secure the documents once Trump was no longer President, not Trump.
 
Does anyone think that Trump, personally, actually took the documents?

The reality is, during any transition, files are taken from cabinets, boxed, and shipped. That's standard practice. Additionally, the National Archives, after the transition, routinely works with the departing Presidents team to review all the materials taken and retrieve anything that's property of the government (not individually the property of the former President). The National Archives and the GSA routinely recover all kinds of stuff from former Presidents and their key appointments.

Incidentally, upon departure, the President keeps their security clearance (as do most members of their team) for two reasons. First, they are routinely called on by the staff of the incoming President to consult on issues that are classified, and second, they routinely continue to handle classified information. This applies to all the flying monkeys (the scores of people who transition out of an administration).

The higher ups (the actual political figures), don't do any of this. They go to tea with their colleagues and low level staff members handle eveything. It's amusing that people might actually think the higher ups ever fill boxes and take stuff.

(If you compare it to the Clinton Email scandal, following State's internal investigation 38 people (flying monkey level) were found culpable and faced administrative discipline over the handling of classified information. Discipline ranged from reprimands to termination. The exact details (who got whacked for what) were not released
 
Trump is in violation, period. He cannot declassify anything once he was voted out of office.
 
Paul_Chance said:
Does anyone think that Trump, personally, actually took the documents?

The reality is, during any transition, files are taken from cabinets, boxed, and shipped. That's standard practice. Additionally, the National Archives, after the transition, routinely works with the departing Presidents team to review all the materials taken and retrieve anything that's property of the government (not individually the property of the former President). The National Archives and the GSA routinely recover all kinds of stuff from former Presidents and their key appointments.

Incidentally, upon departure, the President keeps their security clearance (as do most members of their team) for two reasons. First, they are routinely called on by the staff of the incoming President to consult on issues that are classified, and second, they routinely continue to handle classified information. This applies to all the flying monkeys (the scores of people who transition out of an administration).

The higher ups (the actual political figures), don't do any of this. They go to tea with their colleagues and low level staff members handle eveything. It's amusing that people might actually think the higher ups ever fill boxes and take stuff.

(If you compare it to the Clinton Email scandal, following State's internal investigation 38 people (flying monkey level) were found culpable and faced administrative discipline over the handling of classified information. Discipline ranged from reprimands to termination. The exact details (who got whacked for what) were not released
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You simply misunderstand the LEFT's position... Trump obviously snuck into the WH after Brandon took over and swiped boxes and boxes of classified materials and hid them at Mar A Lago where no one would ever think to look for them.

Just to flush them down the toilet.
 
HisArpy said:
Grasping at straws.
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Okay counselor, time to go on record here: Do you believe a former president has the unilateral right to declassify classified information after his term has ended? A simple yes or no will suffice.
 
zipman said:
100% incorrect. As a former president, he is not able to declassify anything.

And as usual, the "but her emails" crowd is making excuses for this far more egregious breach of security.
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He was President when he took them, dope.
 
Dribble said:
Ummmmm....the point I was making is if the records were taken prior to Biden being sworn in, then the Fascist traitor is guilty....again
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And the point I made was that it's irrelevant whenever Trump took them away (or destroyed them). It's violation of law that he did it at all, whenever he did it.
 
Paul_Chance said:
Does anyone think that Trump, personally, actually took the documents?
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Absolutely, yes. And that he shredded some, tried to flush some down the toilet, and even chewed on some of them. Believe that absolutely, yes, all of which is illegal. What's hard to believe is that you are still supporting the corrupt, criminal, treasonous clown in any way.
 
zipman said:
Trump is in violation, period. He cannot declassify anything once he was voted out of office.
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And he can't declassify simply by magic wand while in office (and if there's no documentation that the files in question were legally declassified, they weren't, and any argument about the president's powers on something not actually done is irrelevant.)
 
HisArpy said:
For all your bluster about not getting a rise out of you, you sure spent a long time drafting your reply given the size of it.

Why is that?
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Bluster? Really? Do you actually understand the meaning of that word, or do you just use it to throw off the direction of the main discussion?
As for not getting a rise out of me, since you seem to misunderstand my meaning (intentionally or not) perhaps I should explain that in simpler terms, I'm not going to try to trade idiotic, low brow insults with you. It adds nothing to the discussion. Using such rarely elicits anger from me, most times it pity.

As to your question: because I'm assuming you, might, maybe, perhaps, like to actually have a legitimate, honest discussion on some of these subjects. From all of your recent responses (I remember a time when you did try to engage in such discussions as I described) I take it that instead of making a salient point you would rather hurl insults?

Either way, I'll still do what I do, point out the flaws and misinformation in your arguments.

Comshaw
 
Comshaw said:
Either way, I'll still do what I do, point out the flaws and misinformation in your arguments.

Comshaw
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You cover your ass in groundless accusations while doubling down on bullshit which has exactly zero support.

Trump could not take the docs AFTER he left the WH. Which means that the entire premise of this thread is based on a false narrative which boils down to YOU refusing to let go of the anti-Trump narrative.

That's not on me, it's on you. That you continue to spew anti-Trump invectives merely proves how mentally unstable and unfit you are. ME pointing that out doesn't seem to make a dent in the unobtanium cranium you use to protect the airless void where your brain is supposed to be.

If you want to have a reasoned discussion, BEGIN by stating a premise which isn't based in lies and bullshit driven by your hate of all things not progressive. I won't wait because no one's lifespan is that long.
 
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