What is Putin's objective....it's not primarily sizing Ukraine

[jomar]

You’re an idiot! Would we tolerate Russian nukes n Mexico? Canada? Maybe try to use that Public K-12 education for once and fucking think!

Who says Ukraine would have nukes on the Russian border?

 

[Lazaran]

Can you source any other information regarding Soviet aggression prior to the 1959 agreement with Turkey to install missiles?

I came up with this: "The history of Jupiter missiles in Europe began with Sputnik. In 1957, the Soviet Union successfully launched the first unmanned satellite, Sputnik. Fearing that the Soviet Union had developed long range missiles, America offered to install their intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBMs) in NATO countries.[1] This move, while meant to protect Europe and reassure America’s allies, was only accepted by Britain, Italy, and Turkey.[2] Turkey sought out these missiles as part of their massive effort to modernize their military forces. Also, Turkey shared a maritime border with the Soviet Union and felt exposed and weak in the face of a possible Soviet invasion. At a time where Europe genuinely believed it could be hit with a nuclear bomb at any moment, the Soviet threat for the less protected, less equipped, and newly-formed Republic of Turkey was very real.
In October of 1959, the agreement to send Jupiter missiles to Turkey was signed."

I placed "missiles" in quotes because I was suggesting that Russia's threat was not only "missiles" but also conventional and Nuclear bombs delivered comventionally to its neighbors and U.S. allies. The main point: Russia's activity in Cuba was not legitimately predicated by U.S. deterrent action in Europe. Russians own barbarism also justified the United States deterrent actions. People forget that Russia was almost as bad as Germany before and during WWII in many respects. Post WWII Russian behavior speaks for itself.

 

[Lazaran]

The main point here is that Russia isn't the party who decides nato membership. They are there to intimidate and obstruct any action not in any way meant to advance Ukraine or NATOs interest.



The key point is to not get too caught up in the overt Russian motives for their behavior. Putin knows full well how the current "crisis" in Ukraine is playing in the U.S., and how it can be politically damaging to President Biden and Democrats.

Decent Americans are smart enough to see Putin's underlying motives, but Deplorables don't possess the intellectual curiosity to consider all the angles.

*nods*

 

[icanhelp1]

The main point here is that Russia isn't the party who decides nato membership. They are there to intimidate and obstruct any action not in any way meant to advance Ukraine or NATOs interest.




I was responding to 787's quote

"The best outcome is Ukraine becoming a member of NATO...the consequences of it will be less than the vast majority of other outcomes."

No one is disputing the topic of Russian aggression.

 

[pecksniff]

One reason WWI happened was that Russia insisted on playing an international role -- in that case, the role of protector of the Slavs of southern Europe.

When Russia decides to be a Great Power, it's bad news for everybody including Russia.

 

[Wrong Element]

Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/putin-american-democracy/610570/

This article comes closer to most at explaining what Putin's long term objective is...the downfall of the US by furthering political polorization.

Why didn't Putin make these moves during the 45 administration? It fairly simple to understand....45 was a useful asset to Putin. He would not invade Ukraine or any other country as that would diminish the very favorable relationship he had with 45. He played 45 like a adolescent school boy and he wants more of this.... relationships with doddards who can be easily played and manipulated.

So he waits, til after the election. Putin dispises the establishment in the US and those who will hold him to task... like Biden, the Clintons, the Bushes. Etc... It is way more politically useful to put this burden of an invasion on Biden and the establishment. It favors and promotes more political polorization and upheaval.

Putin is a master...he is playing his cards extremely well and those on both the left and right are amateurs....falling right into his hands.

"Events in the United States have unfolded more favorably than any operative in Moscow could have ever dreamed: Not only did Russia’s preferred candidate win, but he has spent his first term fulfilling the potential it saw in him, discrediting American institutions, rending the seams of American culture, and isolating a nation that had styled itself as indispensable to the free world. But instead of complacently enjoying its triumph, Russia almost immediately set about replicating it. Boosting the Trump campaign was a tactic; #DemocracyRIP remains the larger objective."

Putin is so masterful that he's convinced the Germans — a country with a much bigger economy than Russia — to double their military spending, and gotten Switzerland to in essence join the anti-invasion coalition.

Putin's sheer longevity — which is not actually much of an accomplishment in a non-democracy — convinced a lot of people that he's a chessmaster. But he's just a bully and that's all he's ever been.

 

[phrodeau]

We have been historically and up until the 45 administration, they key super power keeping Putin's hegemonic aspirations in check.

If we fall into chaos(like under the 45 administration) Putin will have the ability to move not just on Ukraine, but the entire Baltic and eastern European region. He has not changed his goals one bit since he came to power....restore Russia to it's former Soviet greatness.

More likely Imperial Russia than Soviet Russia. Putin is a big fan of Peter the Great.

I’ve read also that Putin hopes to maintain a homeland for the white race, since Europe has grown more diverse.

 

[pecksniff]

More likely Imperial Russia than Soviet Russia. Putin is a big fan of Peter the Great.

I’ve read also that Putin hopes to maintain a homeland for the white race, since Europe has grown more diverse.

That makes a certain sense, in that Russia is not an attractive destination for immigrants.

 

[pecksniff]

I’ve read also that Putin hopes to maintain a homeland for the white race, since Europe has grown more diverse.

I guess that explains why renard is pro-Russian.

 

[oggbashan]

That makes a certain sense, in that Russia is not an attractive destination for immigrants.

And is very racist. If you are not white you are not welcome.

 

[Dribble]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/28/europe/gallery/ukraine-girl-killed/index.html

This is Putin's objective.

 

[butters]

Poland's ordering $6B in tanks and stuff, about $3B of that to come to America

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/top...lion-on-battle-tanks/ar-AAUtbo0?ocid=msedgntp

On Feb. 17, the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) advised Congress of a request from the government of Poland to place a massive $6 billion order for new military equipment. Topping Poland's shopping list:

• 250 M1A2SEPv3 Abrams Main Battle tanks manufactured by American defense contracting giant General Dynamics (NYSE: GD).
• 26 M88A2 HERCULES Combat Recovery vehicles (i.e., tow trucks for tanks) manufactured by Britain's BAE Systems.
• 17 M1110 joint assault bridges -- mobile bridges for crossing rivers, designed by Italy's Leonardo DRS and built upon the chassis of General Dynamics' Abrams.
• Nearly 35,000 rounds of 120-mm tank ammunition.
• The total value of the weapons package ordered by Poland, and now being coordinated by the U.S. Department of Defense, adds up to the aforementioned $6 billion. As DSCA advised, the money will be spread around among several "principal contractors" -- including all of the companies named above, as well as companies including Honeywell, Lockheed Martin, and Raytheon.
  
  But the biggest chunk of the cash will surely go to General Dynamics, maker of the biggest-ticket items on the shopping list.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/putin-american-democracy/610570/

This article comes closer to most at explaining what Putin's long term objective is...the downfall of the US by furthering political polorization.

Why didn't Putin make these moves during the 45 administration? It fairly simple to understand....45 was a useful asset to Putin. He would not invade Ukraine or any other country as that would diminish the very favorable relationship he had with 45. He played 45 like a adolescent school boy and he wants more of this.... relationships with doddards who can be easily played and manipulated.

So he waits, til after the election. Putin dispises the establishment in the US and those who will hold him to task... like Biden, the Clintons, the Bushes. Etc... It is way more politically useful to put this burden of an invasion on Biden and the establishment. It favors and promotes more political polorization and upheaval.

Putin is a master...he is playing his cards extremely well and those on both the left and right are amateurs....falling right into his hands.

"Events in the United States have unfolded more favorably than any operative in Moscow could have ever dreamed: Not only did Russia’s preferred candidate win, but he has spent his first term fulfilling the potential it saw in him, discrediting American institutions, rending the seams of American culture, and isolating a nation that had styled itself as indispensable to the free world. But instead of complacently enjoying its triumph, Russia almost immediately set about replicating it. Boosting the Trump campaign was a tactic; #DemocracyRIP remains the larger objective."

I think that Putin has his sights set on employment as a cabana boy ar Mar-a-Lago

 

[pecksniff]

Poland's ordering $6B in tanks and stuff, about $3B of that to come to America

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/top...lion-on-battle-tanks/ar-AAUtbo0?ocid=msedgntp

What was that Lenin said, about the capitalists selling them the rope?

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...r-ill-begotten-gains/ar-AAUuxKW?ocid=msedgntp

 

[PaxNurgle]

I think Paul Chance's analysis (on page 1) sums it up perfectly. Read it if you haven't already: This is the kind of post we need more of on here- unbiased, factual, historical, and not full of blatantly juvenile and uninformed idiocy like bidudewi and the various Bud Spencer/Babyboomer/shybiguy/etc. usernames are always spouting off.

Russia's aims are globally strategic and about furthering their own interests- period. Has nothing to do with either Biden or the previous president, although as mentioned, the previous president was much more amicable to Russian interests than the current one, but that is besides the point. One thing to emphasise, too, is that Russia does not have very many year round ice-free ports on the Mediterranean and Atlantic side. This has long been their aim for Crimea, to have access to the Black Sea and Mediterranean trade routes.

 

[pecksniff]

Russia's aims are globally strategic and about furthering their own interests- period.

The Russians need to face up to the fact that they are no longer a world power and never will be again. In that regard, France has a better chance of staging a comeback.

 

[WillJ8787]

The Russians need to face up to the fact that they are no longer a world power and never will be again. In that regard, France has a better chance of staging a comeback.

The transport vehicles all seem to be of the 1960 vintage. No wonder they are broken down all over the place.

 

[oggbashan]

The transport vehicles all seem to be of the 1960 vintage. No wonder they are broken down all over the place.

I had a 1944 BSA ex-army motorcycle I bought in 1968 with only 300 miles recorded. I sold it to my cousin, along with a crated, unused engine/gearbox. It has now done more than 250,000 miles and is still on the original engine.

Vehicles will last if properly maintained.

 

[WillJ8787]

I had a 1944 BSA ex-army motorcycle I bought in 1968 with only 300 miles recorded. I sold it to my cousin, along with a crated, unused engine/gearbox. It has now done more than 250,000 miles and is still on the original engine.

Vehicles will last if properly maintained.

Sweet! And glad to see and hear from you Ogg...keep on keeping on!

I love old machines and vehicles....so easy to maintain when it's all mechanical and not electronic.

It isn't saying much for the Russians....sounds like Putin is cheap.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The transport vehicles all seem to be of the 1960 vintage. No wonder they are broken down all over the place.

Did you see the home videos of the interiors of captured tanks? The seat cushions had springs popping out of them...appear to be the original installed cushions. Very crude machinery.

 

[Rightguide]

Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/putin-american-democracy/610570/

This article comes closer to most at explaining what Putin's long term objective is...the downfall of the US by furthering political polorization.

Why didn't Putin make these moves during the 45 administration? It fairly simple to understand....45 was a useful asset to Putin. He would not invade Ukraine or any other country as that would diminish the very favorable relationship he had with 45. He played 45 like a adolescent school boy and he wants more of this.... relationships with doddards who can be easily played and manipulated.

So he waits, til after the election. Putin dispises the establishment in the US and those who will hold him to task... like Biden, the Clintons, the Bushes. Etc... It is way more politically useful to put this burden of an invasion on Biden and the establishment. It favors and promotes more political polorization and upheaval.

Putin is a master...he is playing his cards extremely well and those on both the left and right are amateurs....falling right into his hands.

"Events in the United States have unfolded more favorably than any operative in Moscow could have ever dreamed: Not only did Russia’s preferred candidate win, but he has spent his first term fulfilling the potential it saw in him, discrediting American institutions, rending the seams of American culture, and isolating a nation that had styled itself as indispensable to the free world. But instead of complacently enjoying its triumph, Russia almost immediately set about replicating it. Boosting the Trump campaign was a tactic; #DemocracyRIP remains the larger objective."

Macron after call with Putin: Prepare for the worst in Ukraine​

ALLAHPUNDIT Mar 03, 2022 11:21 AM ET

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022...utin-prepare-for-the-worst-in-ukraine-n452700

 

[icanhelp1]

Macron after call with Putin: Prepare for the worst in Ukraine​

ALLAHPUNDIT Mar 03, 2022 11:21 AM ET

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022...utin-prepare-for-the-worst-in-ukraine-n452700

Am I the only one getting real fucking tired of Russia threatening WWIII with a nuclear exchange. I wonder how long we'll have to live under nuclear blackmail.

 

[pecksniff]

Am I the only one getting real fucking tired of Russia threatening WWIII with a nuclear exchange. I wonder how long we'll have to live under nuclear blackmail.

Until such time as there is a general multilateral nuclear disarmament.

 

[WillJ8787]

Did you see the home videos of the interiors of captured tanks? The seat cushions had springs popping out of them...appear to be the original installed cushions. Very crude machinery.

It is very interesting to see the real Russian military. Not what the 'controlled' messages have led us all to believe. I doubt the military will have the stomach for killing civilians. From planes is another story...but on the ground, they have no chance at success.

They don't know what they are fighting for....not the first leaders have been so out of touch.