The popular vote

[HarryHill]

..
Why not end all this insanity over outdated election methods and let the people decide?
...

 

[GothTalk]

..
Why not end all this insanity over outdated election methods and let the people decide?
...

Same reason we have a Senate to go with our HoR, because we are the United STATES of America, not the Unified Peoples of America.

Do you really want other people from other places, in Washington DC deciding all your local affairs??

 

[pecksniff]

Same reason we have a Senate to go with our HoR

In other words, not for any good reason.

 

[GothTalk]

In other words, not for any good reason.

Other than the right to live how you life and communities to manage their local affairs??

Sure, if you just want to ignore that very basic American concept in favor of a very anti-American authoritarian centralized government.

And we all know how much you do because you openly DESPISE the USA and everything about it... especially it's states and the liberties protected by those states.

 

[YDB95]

If anyone is ever able to convince me that states - not citizens of those states, but the states themselves - have a fundamental right to representation, then I will agree that the existing way is the right way.

But I can't think how that could ever happen. In most cases, the current state lines are just the result of long-ago politics and don't represent any real differences among people who live within a few miles of the line on either side. There is the kind of territorialism that comes with being members of any two different groups, from high school rivalries onward, but that doesn't really mean anything. Take eastern Colorado and western Kansas: they have far more in common with each other than either of them has with Denver or the more urban and suburban eastern tier of Kansas. The state line does make a convenient border between timezones, but that's about it.

 

[GothTalk]

If anyone is ever able to convince me that states - not citizens of those states, but the states themselves - have a fundamental right to representation, then I will agree that the existing way is the right way.

A state is the representative of the people living in it.

If you think people living in state X have a right to govern their state how they, the people who live in that state see fit, then you have to believe in that states right to representation as a state, especially in a union like the USA.

Otherwise there might as well be no state, it would be little more than an administrative region for federal authority. Is that what you think the states should be?? Just a long arm for federal authority and control??

But I can't think how that could ever happen. In most cases, the current state lines are just the result of long-ago politics and don't represent any real differences among people who live within a few miles of the line on either side.

There is no doubt a lot of room for reconstruction that would allow for much better representation in DC as well as efficiency in government.

But at the end of the day you would still have states, many with WILDLY differing cultures and politics and they're all going to want some representation in the Union.

There is the kind of territorialism that comes with being members of any two different groups, from high school rivalries onward, but that doesn't really mean anything. Take eastern Colorado and western Kansas: they have far more in common with each other than either of them has with Denver or the more urban and suburban eastern tier of Kansas. The state line does make a convenient border between timezones, but that's about it.

Yea, and eastern Oregon/Washington are more like Idaho than their costal halfs.

Again, lots of room for re-construction to improve a lot of things for a lot of people as well as government efficiency itself.

I mean you could put like 7 NE states into NY and just have 1 big ass New York, super progressive with all the people and resources needed to do whatever the fuck they, the people of that state, want.

If we use our states to our advantage, to live and let live, then everyone wins except the psycho control freak Karen types who just CAN'T let people they don't know, have nothing to do with and live in some far away land have any autonomy or self governance of any kind.

 

[Champakian]

This thread is nothing more than another proof that civics education in this country is failing.


The only argument is if the root cause is mere incompetence in Big Education

~~ OR ~~

a purposeful intent on the part of indoctrinators passing as educators...

 

[AlterErgo]

..
Why not end all this insanity over outdated election methods and let the people decide?
...

great idea!

what other parts of The Constitution shall we eliminate?

allowing COLOREDS to vote?

allowing CUNTS to vote?

tell us

its ok

we'll wait

 

[Champakian]

The amazing thing is that he's in that part of flyover country
that would be ruled by the overwhelming numbers on the coasts...



Fremdschämen

 

[JohnnySavage]

Half the population lives in cities. Just the kind of successful public policy experts you want setting policy for the entire country.

 

[Champakian]

Preach on!

 

[Chernosoth]

The population is too divided to reach the consensus needed for a constitutional amendment on this issue, but it may be included in the constitutions of new nations after the breakup of the USA. There will be challenges of how to count millions of votes as electricity becomes more expensive or unavailable. A nation of subsistence farmers may be too busy with work and chores to be so politically active, so it may revert to the older style of electing representatives who elect the head of state.

 

[GothTalk]

The amazing thing is that he's in that part of flyover country
that would be ruled by the overwhelming numbers on the coasts...



Fremdschämen

That's what he wants.

That's what all the lefties in flyover country want.

They can't actually manage to get to or afford a progressive run dumpster fire so they want that "progress" to come to them.

 

[ll74]

I've seen similar discussion surrounding the fillobuster bleeding into this one.

The EC is a solid system and should never be changed, unless you are addressing the ability for state legislatures to overturn the vote in their state.

Each state deserves representation based on the preference of that state.

I think it would be beneficial for the states, in leiau of federal action, to create an agreed upon standards list at a very has level that uses input from independent experienced election officials as well as the state's election officials.

The goal should be education of the voters and transparency to the voters.

That being said, I am not saying that this is a "must do" and I'm not saying that not doing these things is a danger to democracy. I just have seen an abundance of ignorance to process as well as processes that might not be evident.show up in the past 4 years. A lot of the fraud accusations come from a lack of process understanding.....

 

[AlterErgo]

great idea!

what other parts of The Constitution shall we eliminate?

allowing COLOREDS to vote?

allowing CUNTS to vote?

tell us

its ok

we'll wait

 

[pecksniff]

N.B.: There is no reason to equate decentralized government with republican government, nor with liberty. France has a unitary system, Germany has a federal system -- France is just as good a republic and just as free a country.

 

[Dribble]

The population is too divided to reach the consensus needed for a constitutional amendment on this issue, but it may be included in the constitutions of new nations after the breakup of the USA. There will be challenges of how to count millions of votes as electricity becomes more expensive or unavailable. A nation of subsistence farmers may be too busy with work and chores to be so politically active, so it may revert to the older style of electing representatives who elect the head of state.

Lol...only in the Republican half. The Democratic half will thrive.

 

[GothTalk]

N.B.: There is no reason to equate decentralized government with republican government, nor with liberty. France has a unitary system, Germany has a federal system -- France is just as good a republic and just as free a country.

And you are still lying about this, why??

 

[pecksniff]

And you are still lying about this, why??

How is Germany freer than France? And what has that to do with its political structure?

 

[pecksniff]

Lol...only in the Republican half. The Democratic half will thrive.

Some Republicans have delusions to the contrary. See People's Republic by Kurt Schlichter.

 

[GothTalk]

How is Germany freer than France? And what has that to do with its political structure?

Oh it doesn't, I thought you were saying france and germany were just as free as M'aricuh!!! Which would be a fuckin' lie.

It doesn't, it's about political values.

 

[GothTalk]

Some Republicans have delusions to the contrary. See People's Republic by Kurt Schlichter.

Because it's already happening.

That book is not some set in stone step by stem as to how that would work out.

It's just another leftist cheer guide with elite authoritarians thinking they don't need anything from outside their precious ivory towers... they have all the things they need that just show up like magic!!

 

[pecksniff]

Because it's already happening.

That book is not some set in stone step by stem as to how that would work out.

It's just another leftist cheer guide with elite authoritarians thinking they don't need anything from outside their precious ivory towers... they have all the things they need that just show up like magic!!

No, that book is a rightist cheer guide -- the red and blue states split, and the red states thrive while the blue states languish. In real life, the reverse would happen.

 

[pecksniff]

Oh it doesn't, I thought you were saying france and germany were just as free as M'aricuh!!! Which would be a fuckin' lie.

Freedom in the World ranks them equal.

 

[GothTalk]

No, that book is a rightist cheer guide -- the red and blue states split, and the red states thrive while the blue states languish. In real life, the reverse would happen.

Oh, so why do you promote it??

And that's how it works out in the cities you guys run, you're like a fucking plague of locust moving from place to place, ruining it with crime and degeneracy. Cut them off from their ability to do that, force them to live in the bed they shit in??

The red areas would probably improve a good deal from their current state and then go back to their slower steady progress.

Blue areas would Detroit themselves in short order.

Freedom in the World ranks them equal.

Yea they are both mostly unfree shit holes that deserve all the thuggery they're living under now.