The Rules on Non-Consent Here are Frankly Ridiculous

[windar]

You either allow it or you don't. My stories often have non-consent, though there is, I assure you, much more going on in the way of complex plot and character development (trust me on that), but there is frequently that element. You can like that kind of thing or hate it as you wish. I don't have a problem with non-consent, since it's fiction, not a guidebook to real life. Murder mysteries have murders and the victim generally didn't consent. I'm imaginging a scene where the murderer shoots the victim and as they're lying on the floor dying, they say, "Hey, that felt good, shoot me again, please."

Some sites don't allow non-consent-Amazon, for instance. They make that clear and I don't put those stories there (several years ago, they were less clear on that and some were there for a time). Other sites (pay and free) are fine with it and I have many stories there.

But Lit has decided to try to be coy. They say you can have all the non-consent you like as long as the victim decides to enjoy it at the end. To put this unelegantly, this is simply BULLSHIT. More than that, it's frankly offensive. A woman kicking and screaming and fighting her assailant off and then in the end loving it and orgasming? Come, on!

Publish non-consent stories or not, as you wish. Just be honest about it...

 

[lovecraft68]

As I said in Simon's thread, talking about the faux rules here is a waste of time.
As for the Non consent the woman/victim has to enjoy it?
Totally absurd even for erotica a woman being raped suddenly gets into it


But beyond that e the message beyond the story is no never means no and women all love to be forced into sex.

Bad enough rape and domestic violence are still treated like jokes in this country, but the incels who dwell here don't need any more encouraging.

One more parting shot is how the vague as hell and wink wink rules is at times enforced over in non con, there is no limit to what can be done to a woman-or sometimes the man she cheats with-over in LW.

It also never seems to be applied to 'BDSM" which for me will always be surrounded by quotes here because the last few years that category has become NC 2.0, its the place people who want to write non con without the non con stigma go.

Also repeating my post from Simon's thread, this site and the authors here try to act like this place has standards. It doesn't which is what it is, but stop pretending.

 

[AlinaX]

It's a reasonable limit and prevents rape fantasies where the author gloats over the misery and destruction of the victim.

The goal of stories here should be to seduce the reader with erotic fantasies, not to indulge in vengeful power trips.

It's a challenge. Rise to it.

 

[lovecraft68]

It's a reasonable limit and prevents rape fantasies where the author gloats over the misery and destruction of the victim.

The goal of stories here should be to seduce the reader with erotic fantasies, not to indulge in vengeful power trips.

It's a challenge. Rise to it.

Issue is what you described is prevalent here because there is no real consistent enforcement

But also, if you don't want rape stories, why have a non con section at all? TBH I don't blame anyone for thinking rape is accepted here. Non con reluctance is one category with two completely different things, one is dubious consent and sleazy the other is rape

No other site that says it won't allow rape has a non consent category Furthermore, if the argument is stories could slip through, how does that explain the word rape in title and tag lines? That slips through

https://search.literotica.com/?query=Rape

That should be telling....but here comes the bootlicks to rapesplain things to us. Within a few posts the men will also be here to tell all the women what rape is and how all women feel about it.

Gordo, and Simon, and EB I'm looking at you, don't let me down.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Equally ridiculous is the embrace and utter promotion of incest. In the real world, incest is rape, mostly of adults against children. But that is the favorite flavor here. How? By using the same type of fictional contrivances that justify non-consent.

 

[windar]

It's a reasonable limit and prevents rape fantasies where the author gloats over the misery and destruction of the victim.

The goal of stories here should be to seduce the reader with erotic fantasies, not to indulge in vengeful power trips.

It's a challenge. Rise to it.

You should read my stories before you tell me to rise to it. They are darn good tales which my co-author (a woman) and I work hard on and do a lot of research and I'm far from the only one who says so. I am not on any venegful power trip any more than the writers of crime fiction (which I have written) are criminals.

 

[lovecraft68]

Equally ridiculous is the embrace and utter promotion of incest. In the real world, incest is rape, mostly of adults against children. But that is the favorite flavor here. How? By using the same type of fictional contrivances that justify non-consent.

Let's do this.

The stories here are 18+(well mostly) and consensual fun fantasy. Want to get roasted in incest? Add non consent, the readers will make you pay.

What's in rape stories here in non consent, real life rape situations glorified and magnified 10 fold for titillation.

Let's review.

Incest in real life-molestation, assault, abuse, wrong in every way(for the most part0
Incest on Lit and sites like Smashwords that allows it-Fun 18+ CONSENSUAL fantasy.

Rape in real life-forcing a woman into sex, getting off on hurting and humiliating her.

Rape on lit-same as above.

Following?

One more- In real life when someone is arrested for molesting a family member, the charge isn't "incest" the charge is sexual abuse, assault, and...

Rape.

Nice try and what the men who write rapist fantasy always try to go for, guess its okay to be a rapist if you can try to say someone else is doing something you don't like

Whataboutism made the dictionary this year, perfect case for why right here.

 

[lovecraft68]

Guess I'm in the mood to waste word and 'breath' today.

As I've said in the past-so if you're new here-I have no issue with people who write/read rape stories. Its fiction, an hopefully just that or maybe even some catharsis for some dark thoughts you wouldn't act on.

I don't believe in censorship, I don't kink shame. My issue is not the content or those who indulge in it, my issue has always been a site lying through their teeth about not wanting it, then having a section named for it, and countless stories with that content.

The fake morality, and the toadies who sit here and back it when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary are the issue.

That and people who just try to dodge what their kink is. Rape and rapist fantasy are different. Women have rape fantasies, the dark arousal of being taken, but knowing full well they'd never want to be a victim, just the idea of it in story form or maybe some rape play vids.

Men who write non con are seeing ir from the POV of the rapist, they're getting off on being the one inflicting the pain etc...that's rapist fantasy.

Again, if it stays in your head or in your word docs, go for it. But for fuck's sake own your kink and stop playing this game of denying what turns you on.

I like incest stories, sure its as extreme of a kink, but I admit it, and mine and the ones I like to read have consent, I won't read any without it, and will never write it. But even for those who do like that? Okay, whatever floats the boat, but OWN it

The more I see someone point fingers or try to explain away what gets them off the more they damn themselves.

Its a porn site, this is the place for weird and sometimes twisted kinks. This is the one place you can say what you like.

Same token, the site can allow whatever they want, and they do, but feel the need to lie about it and play like they have morals. Its not about morals its about you can do what you want and allow what you want, drop the act, grow the hell up, and stop acting you have standards when to you a click and view on a rape story is the same traffic and $$ as one on a romance.

You want te readership, but want to pretend you're above them.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Let's do this.

The stories here are 18+(well mostly) and consensual fun fantasy. Want to get roasted in incest? Add non consent, the readers will make you pay.

What's in rape stories here in non consent, real life rape situations glorified and magnified 10 fold for titillation.

Let's review.

Incest in real life-molestation, assault, abuse, wrong in every way(for the most part0
Incest on Lit and sites like Smashwords that allows it-Fun 18+ CONSENSUAL fantasy.

Rape in real life-forcing a woman into sex, getting off on hurting and humiliating her.

Rape on lit-same as above.

Following?

One more- In real life when someone is arrested for molesting a family member, the charge isn't "incest" the charge is sexual abuse, assault, and...

Rape.

Nice try and what the men who write rapist fantasy always try to go for, guess its okay to be a rapist if you can try to say someone else is doing something you don't like

Whataboutism made the dictionary this year, perfect case for why right here.

My point here is -- and you basically proved it -- is that rape and incest are the same. In the real world, that is. In this space, neither is real. Both depend upon fictions to exist. Incest requires the fiction that it is between consenting adults. Non-con requires the woman to like it, which is more or less retroactive consent. Neither is reality based. In the real world, both are devastating to the victims. The fans or writers of either should feel no moral superiority to the fans or writers of the other. They are the same. This is not a false equivalence.

 

[lovecraft68]

BTW, something I forgot to mention

Literotica does not have a rule against Incest so having an Incest/Taboo category is understandable.

Literotica does say they have a rule against rape...but allows it in title and tags and uses "Non consent" as a category, with NC meaning...

See the difference there?

Again, its not about what people like to read or write, its about the absurd game of make believe going on.

As for Incest being the biggest draw here, if half the stories featured non consensual themes that would change in a heartbeat.

Non con, Loving wives, and BDSM(Literotica style) get off on the misery and suffering of women, incest does not. For an out there kink, the readership is a bunch of laid back good natured types who want fun not pain.

 

[NotWise]

I've written just one Noncon story here, and I had no trouble staying within the guideline.

If you can't write your story within Lit's rule, then don't expect Lit to publish it for you. That's simple, isn't it?

 

[AlinaX]

You should read my stories before you tell me to rise to it. They are darn good tales which my co-author (a woman) and I work hard on and do a lot of research and I'm far from the only one who says so. I am not on any venegful power trip any more than the writers of crime fiction (which I have written) are criminals.

Do I really need to read your eighteen stories to work out whether you've risen to the challenge of writing non-con?

I don't know what you've written and lack the interest to find out. I wasn't talking about you specifically, beyond your dramatic outrage at the rules.

 

[AlinaX]

Want to get roasted in incest? Add non consent, the readers will make you pay.

You've said that before and it makes me laugh. My first foray into incest went very non-con at the end. Also, the popularity of mind control in Incest (and vice versa) suggests that some forms of non-con incest are very welcome indeed.

 

[windar]

Do I really need to read your eighteen stories to work out whether you've risen to the challenge of writing non-con?

I don't know what you've written and lack the interest to find out. I wasn't talking about you specifically, beyond your dramatic outrage at the rules.

The short answer is yes, but I much prefer that you read the stories I have on pay sites!

And I don't have 18 here, I have 3, only 1 of which has anything related to what we are discussing. Chapters and stories are not the same.

 

[SimonDoom]

My view:

Literotica offers an erotic fantasy space, in which people can indulge their erotic fantasies as authors and as readers.

There is no reason at all -- none -- why the "real world" and its many varieties of awfulness should constrain what people fantasize about, and what they want to read and write to indulge those fantasies. Yes, most incest in the real world is child abuse. So? Yes, most nonconsent in the real world is rape, and it's traumatic and terrible. So? What does any of that have to do with Literotica? Nothing.

Literotica's default position appears to be fairly permissive, but it carves out some exceptions. Most of those exceptions seem to be based on this idea: Literotica doesn't want to host stories where the erotic appeal derives from people being hurt. No pedo. No child abuse. No snuff. No torture porn. No rape. It seems like a pretty reasonable carve-out, to me.

But it DOES allow stuff that's sometimes hard to differentiate from the stuff it prohibits, and that seems perfectly reasonable to me, too.

Literotica allows--and I think this makes sense and is defensible--incest involving consenting adults, and nonconsent where the woman actually enjoys it. Women do in fact have rape fantasies. This is well documented. Nonconsent is very erotic to many people. If the erotic story's appeal is NOT based upon the woman being hurt, then why not allow it, given what appears to be Literotica's limiting principle?

I'm not getting into the weeds of whether Literotica consistently enforces this principle, because I don't know. I haven't read enough of the stories to know if Literotica is inconsistent in how it deals with the issue. Maybe it is. That's a whole different matter. But the principle itself seems fine, to me.

 

[nonverbalcommunication]

Equally ridiculous is the embrace and utter promotion of incest. In the real world, incest is rape, mostly of adults against children. But that is the favorite flavor here. How? By using the same type of fictional contrivances that justify non-consent.

Two 40 year-olds having sex is nobody's business but their own. Regardless of what their relationship is.

Incest is a status issue. In some places a crime. Having sex with someone too closely related to you for the state's comfort. Like they used to legally have an issue with races or gender.

Which state... Ahah! What is legal in Rhode Island is not in California (except if you get married-- see the Commerce Clause) What is legal in New Mexico isn't in Minnesota (unless you are a Native American)...

Rape is forceable sex (consent isn't given), or sex where consent cannot be given.

As a middle aged woman who enjoys nice hard sex with people I trust and whom I have given consent to, I find rape to be an anathema. But I find that people say that I am legally a child unable to give consent that lasts longer than 300 seconds, and that consent must be written in triplicate on a standard contract form signed in blue not black ink and notarized with a raised seal.

A certain class of people enjoy reading rape stories, just as a certain class of people enjoy reading the vile tripe that LW has become filled with. Complaining about that won't change anything. I'm really just more upset with fuzzy interpretations that call rough sex "non-con" or "dub-con." It isn't. Rough sex is playing roller-derby or womens rugby (or field hockey where I went to school. )

 

[nonverbalcommunication]

most incest in the real world is child abuse.

I seriously doubt that this is either true or can be quantified. Using the definitions of this site incest is having sex (which is defined broadly) with a first-cousin or closer.

First cousins may legally marry in 27 US states, Canada, and most of Europe. Wikipedia says that 10% of marriages world-wide are between first-cousins.

I'd guess that "most" incest is between young people experimenting with one-another. I'd also guess that there is a lot of "consensual adult incest" that nobody talks much about because it never hurts anyone.

It's just pointless for law enforcement to concentrate on status. But is part of our history, "round up the usual suspects." (While those who cause real harm walk away slowly with a big smile.)

 

[AlinaX]

The short answer is yes, but I much prefer that you read the stories I have on pay sites!

And I don't have 18 here, I have 3, only 1 of which has anything related to what we are discussing. Chapters and stories are not the same.

~ (Shush, Alina.) ~

 

[PennameWombat]

It's obvious that LitE is making enough money to keep the site running. Unless I'm hallucinating again. Possible...

But they're obviously making way more than that.

How can I tell? Because they're able to hire armed thugs to go to various author's houses, point guns at their heads, and force them to post stories on LitE. At least, that seems to be the case why folks who post their perfect stories on many other sites have issues here with those stories.

Yeah, Fuzzy Wuzzy the fuzzy bear looks at the rules and says, "man, that's fuzzy," we've all been hit by one or another of them at some point. Mostly, we look at the issue and deal with it. And learn. If it's consistently hitting you, maybe stories that fit on other sites just aren't gonna fit here. And, well, none of us are getting paid to post here but plenty of posters here claim they're getting paid to post elsewhere.

 

[nonverbalcommunication]

My point here is -- and you basically proved it -- is that rape and incest are the same...

No, rape is an action. In my (and I hope most people's) opinion a heinous crime. It is a crime if committed by a caregiver or person of authority -- doctor, nurse, teacher, cop, counselor, parent, priest, president, -- or by a general member of the public.

Incest (as defined by this site) is a status. The state claims an interest (which I and many cannot see) in keeping certain people from having sex with one another. It used to people of different races, or people of the same gender.

 

[nonverbalcommunication]

Because they're able to hire armed thugs to go to various author's houses, point guns at their heads, and force them to post stories on LitE...

This is actually very close to the plot of one of my favorite short stories. It used to grace the humor category, and it wasn't "sanctioned" it was a rouge operation by certain "popular authors on LitE."

 

[Winter_Fare]

Because they're able to hire armed thugs to go to various author's houses, point guns at their heads, and force them to post stories on LitE.

And another hoard of heavies to strongarm readers into reading rating and commenting on stories they had no interest in getting off to at all.

 

[Winter_Fare]

The vibe I get from everything posted by site owners and administrators is, "we're all here to have fun".

It must be a labour of love for the site owners, or at least have started that way, so no pressure from me at all to "fix" anything. I've been a reader here a lot longer than a writer. It's easy to lose sight of the fun part when you feel like hours of writing is unappreciated, cast aside due to inconsistent enforcement of vague rules. It's a shame when it drives writers away.

A number of stories I remember well have been edited or removed entirely over the years due to content. I get the feeling things are moving towards stricter censorship and stronger guidance, and I don't like it but again, if it happens it happens. I really dislike the heavy handed removal of stories that have been up for years with zero explanation just because some dickhead got offended.

 

[SimonDoom]

I seriously doubt that this is either true or can be quantified. Using the definitions of this site incest is having sex (which is defined broadly) with a first-cousin or closer.

First cousins may legally marry in 27 US states, Canada, and most of Europe. Wikipedia says that 10% of marriages world-wide are between first-cousins.

I'd guess that "most" incest is between young people experimenting with one-another. I'd also guess that there is a lot of "consensual adult incest" that nobody talks much about because it never hurts anyone.

It's just pointless for law enforcement to concentrate on status. But is part of our history, "round up the usual suspects." (While those who cause real harm walk away slowly with a big smile.)

You may be right. I don't really know. My broader point is that it doesn't matter, because whatever incest "is" out there in the real world has nothing to do with Literotica incest.

 

[windar]

It's obvious that LitE is making enough money to keep the site running. Unless I'm hallucinating again. Possible...

But they're obviously making way more than that.

Do you really want to get into the business model of the site? How many of those cam girls on the top of the page are truly making a free choice and how many are driven by poverty, drug addiction and the like? Consent is more complex than just signing a contract; the circumstances under which it's signed matter.

And why do some people here feel they owe gratitude to Laurel and Manu? It's a business. I don't begrudge them a living, but I don't owe them thanks any more than I owe it to Bill Gates because I'm using a Windows computer.