What is Putin's objective....it's not primarily sizing Ukraine

[WillJ8787]

Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/putin-american-democracy/610570/

This article comes closer to most at explaining what Putin's long term objective is...the downfall of the US by furthering political polorization.

Why didn't Putin make these moves during the 45 administration? It fairly simple to understand....45 was a useful asset to Putin. He would not invade Ukraine or any other country as that would diminish the very favorable relationship he had with 45. He played 45 like a adolescent school boy and he wants more of this.... relationships with doddards who can be easily played and manipulated.

So he waits, til after the election. Putin dispises the establishment in the US and those who will hold him to task... like Biden, the Clintons, the Bushes. Etc... It is way more politically useful to put this burden of an invasion on Biden and the establishment. It favors and promotes more political polorization and upheaval.

Putin is a master...he is playing his cards extremely well and those on both the left and right are amateurs....falling right into his hands.

"Events in the United States have unfolded more favorably than any operative in Moscow could have ever dreamed: Not only did Russia’s preferred candidate win, but he has spent his first term fulfilling the potential it saw in him, discrediting American institutions, rending the seams of American culture, and isolating a nation that had styled itself as indispensable to the free world. But instead of complacently enjoying its triumph, Russia almost immediately set about replicating it. Boosting the Trump campaign was a tactic; #DemocracyRIP remains the larger objective."

 

[AlterErgo]

 

[ll74]

His objective is to remain relevant as his economy falls further behind on the global stage.

 

[pecksniff]

This article comes closer to most at explaining what Putin's long term objective is...the downfall of the US by furthering political polorization.

Why? How is that good for Russia?

 

[Rightguide]

I told you what it was yesterday.

 

[WillJ8787]

Why? How is that good for Russia?

We have been historically and up until the 45 administration, they key super power keeping Putin's hegemonic aspirations in check.

If we fall into chaos(like under the 45 administration) Putin will have the ability to move not just on Ukraine, but the entire Baltic and eastern European region. He has not changed his goals one bit since he came to power....restore Russia to it's former Soviet greatness.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

We have been historically and up until the 45 administration, they key super power keeping Putin's hegemonic aspirations in check.

If we fall into chaos(like under the 45 administration) Putin will have the ability to move not just on Ukraine, but the entire Baltic and eastern European region. He has not changed his goals one bit since he came to power....restore Russia to it's former Soviet greatness.

Your "article" is insane.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Russia has several primary objectives in their Ukrainian adventure, which are similar to the objectives that drove them to assert control over Crimea.

First, the Russian strategic defense model through the cold war was to establish a set of "buffer states" between the Russian homeland and the West (as organized under NATO). This defense model was a result WWII's experience where the hostile forces (Nazi Germany) was able to penetrate very deeply into Russia before being turned back as tremendous cost in lives. We, as Americans, often fail to understand how this impacted the Russian mind set. (Imagine if, rather than fighting the Empire of Japan on the western side of the Pacific, we had eventually turned them back at the Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico border.) Strategically, Russia does not want Ukraine to be "western allied", either formally, through NATO or informally, through some sort of allegiance short of NATO with the EU.

Second, the Ukraine contains/contained multiple strategic assets that are either valuable to Russia or are perceived as threats to Russia. Current, through a joint agreement with the UK, Ukraine has two brand new naval ports under way - one on the Black Sea and one on the Azor Sea - both of which are "facing" Russia. Russia's strategic command opposes both ports, as well as that agreement with the UK (and by attachment, NATO). Part of this ongoing agreement is funding for the Ukrainian Navy via EU and UK credits (the war mongers money men) that includes funding to build new ships and update existing ships.

Third, the current fracture between eastern and western Ukraine was heightened by the Euromaidan agreement and the internal battle over it. The eastern portion of the Ukraine opposed the agreement with the EU and the western portion supported it. That's why their are significant groups of individuals in one portion of the country that are "pro-Russian". Russia's overall strategic goal is to pull the Ukraine back into closer alliance with Russia and more distant alliances with the west.

Finally, there are powerful economic reasons for Russia to retain a level of control/cooperation with the Ukraine - it's big, it has great natural resources, and it has a well educated and productive population. The political actions are driven by the need/desire to keep those assetts aligned with Russia.

Will they pull the trigger and go to a "hot war"? I doubt it, as the percentages are bad for Russia. Russia is not the Soviet Union, nor can they pull the old Warsaw Pact allies into the war with them. The Russian's are not (contrary to what some media outlets would like to portray) irrational. They are careful calculators in the political sphere. Additionally, Russia has the ability to rapidly project force - had their intention been a hot war, they would have moved the assets to "near border" positions and then plunged across the border is the rapid mobile warfare model that all first world nations have embraced. They would have been at Kyiv by now, knocking on the door. Additionally, the Ukraine is not incapable of defending itself. They have a sizeable military force - similar in size and disposition with France.

 

[BidudeinWi]

Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/putin-american-democracy/610570/

This article comes closer to most at explaining what Putin's long term objective is...the downfall of the US by furthering political polorization.

Why didn't Putin make these moves during the 45 administration? It fairly simple to understand....45 was a useful asset to Putin. He would not invade Ukraine or any other country as that would diminish the very favorable relationship he had with 45. He played 45 like a adolescent school boy and he wants more of this.... relationships with doddards who can be easily played and manipulated.

So he waits, til after the election. Putin dispises the establishment in the US and those who will hold him to task... like Biden, the Clintons, the Bushes. Etc... It is way more politically useful to put this burden of an invasion on Biden and the establishment. It favors and promotes more political polorization and upheaval.

Putin is a master...he is playing his cards extremely well and those on both the left and right are amateurs....falling right into his hands.

"Events in the United States have unfolded more favorably than any operative in Moscow could have ever dreamed: Not only did Russia’s preferred candidate win, but he has spent his first term fulfilling the potential it saw in him, discrediting American institutions, rending the seams of American culture, and isolating a nation that had styled itself as indispensable to the free world. But instead of complacently enjoying its triumph, Russia almost immediately set about replicating it. Boosting the Trump campaign was a tactic; #DemocracyRIP remains the larger objective."

If you’d get your news from a reputable source, you’d know that he doesn’t want Ukraine to become a NATO member Nation. His concern is as legit as the Cuban missile crisis. If Ukraine is a NATO member, Putin could have nukes on his doorstep. BiDumb needs to back down and understand Purim’s legit position.

Gen. Flynn wrote a decent op-ed about it.

https://www.westernjournal.com/exclusive-gen-flynn-biden-might-get-hundreds-millions-killed-ukraine/

 

[ll74]

If you’d get your news from a reputable source, you’d know that he doesn’t want Ukraine to become a NATO member Nation. His concern is as legit as the Cuban missile crisis. If Ukraine is a NATO member, Putin could have nukes on his doorstep. BiDumb needs to back down and understand Purim’s legit position.

Gen. Flynn wrote a decent op-ed about it.

https://www.westernjournal.com/exclusive-gen-flynn-biden-might-get-hundreds-millions-killed-ukraine/

Ukraine is the only party that decides whether it wants to become a NATO country.

As the Finnish leader says about NATO -

“Finland’s room to maneuver and freedom of choice also include the possibility of military alignment and applying for NATO membership, should we ourselves so decide,” President Sauli Niinistö said in a New Year’s address over the weekend. (https://nypost.com/2022/01/03/finla...-to-join-nato-despite-opposition-from-russia/)

Russia is the aggressor here, not anyone else. Their attempt to frame anyone else is pure PRAVDA

 

[pecksniff]

Your "article" is insane.

There's never much insanity in The Atlantic.

 

[BidudeinWi]

Ukraine is the only party that decides whether it wants to become a NATO country.

As the Finnish leader says about NATO -


Russia is the aggressor here, not anyone else. Their attempt to frame anyone else is pure PRAVDA

You’re an idiot! Would we tolerate Russian nukes n Mexico? Canada? Maybe try to use that Public K-12 education for once and fucking think!

 

[Rightguide]

There's never much insanity in The Atlantic.

It's a Deep State refuge, figuratively and intellectually.

 

[Rightguide]

Ukraine is the only party that decides whether it wants to become a NATO country.

As the Finnish leader says about NATO -


Russia is the aggressor here, not anyone else. Their attempt to frame anyone else is pure PRAVDA

It's also falls on Ukraine to fight for its independence if it has to.

 

[mayfly13]

Russia has several primary objectives in their Ukrainian adventure, which are similar to the objectives that drove them to assert control over Crimea.

First, the Russian strategic defense model through the cold war was
to establish a set of "buffer states" between the Russian homeland and the West (as organized under NATO).

This defense model was a result WWII's experience where the hostile forces (Nazi Germany) were able to penetrate very deeply into Russia before being turned back as tremendous cost in lives. We, as Americans, often fail to understand how this impacted the Russian mind set. (Imagine if, rather than fighting the Empire of Japan on the western side of the Pacific, we had eventually turned them back at the Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico border.) Strategically, Russia does not want Ukraine to be "western allied", either formally, through NATO or informally, through some sort of allegiance short of NATO with the EU.

Second, the Ukraine contains/contained multiple strategic assets that are either valuable to Russia or are perceived as threats to Russia. Current, through a joint agreement with the UK, Ukraine has two brand new naval ports under way - one on the Black Sea and one on the Azor Sea - both of which are "facing" Russia. Russia's strategic command opposes both ports, as well as that agreement with the UK (and by attachment, NATO). Part of this ongoing agreement is funding for the Ukrainian Navy via EU and UK credits (the war mongers money men) that includes funding to build new ships and update existing ships.

Well explained.

NATO bases in Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria, now the Ukrainian govt. pushing hard for EU or NATO membership or whatever ...

 

[WillJ8787]

You’re an idiot! Would we tolerate Russian nukes n Mexico? Canada? Maybe try to use that Public K-12 education for once and fucking think!

Well, this is a true reaction for sure, after all we should all know this lesson....the Cuban missile crisis was caused by this very manuver.
The US placing missiles very close to the Soviet Border. The Soviets steamed to Cuba as a reaction of the US.

 

[ll74]

You’re an idiot! Would we tolerate Russian nukes n Mexico? Canada? Maybe try to use that Public K-12 education for once and fucking think!

They annexed a fucking independent country you moron.

They are the aggressor and you are the gullible victim of propaganda and gas lighting

 

[ll74]

It's also falls on Ukraine to fight for its independence if it has to.

Or they can join NATO. It's up to them

NATO is not a closed organization...anyone can apply.

The more aggressive Russia gets, the more countries are being driven to apply.

 

[pecksniff]

It's a Deep State refuge, figuratively and intellectually.

There is no Deep State. The civil service is not a Deep State.

 

[Lazaran]

Well, this is a true reaction for sure, after all we should all know this lesson....the Cuban missile crisis was caused by this very manuver.
The US placing missiles very close to the Soviet Border. The Soviets steamed to Cuba as a reaction of the US.

Um...... Russia already had "missiles very close" to the borders of NATO allies before the United States deployed deterrent weapons.

To your initial point; Putin wins simply by creating a crisis which its American assets at Faux "News" as well as other crisis for profit media outlets will harangue President Biden about. If President Biden and the Democrats lose, then Putin wins.

Deplorables and anti Democratic forces are also exacerbating existing problems in an effort to portray President Biden and Democrats as bad for America.

They do that ^ with eveything:

Deplorables refusal to get vaccinated and prolonging of the pandemic??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

Deplorables refusal to address climate change and their push to expand fossil fuel??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

The economic effects of Deplorables prolonging the pandemic and worsening climate change??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

Putin is just piling on with his manufactured crisis in Ukraine. The only threat Uktaine poses to Putin and Russia is its potential to become far less corrupt , thus denying Russia opportunities to exploit the Ukranian people.

That ^ won't stop the usual Deplorables from claiming that the "crisis" in Ukraine is President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

SAD!!!

 

[KeithD]

He can only remain in power in Russia by being a controlling person internationally. Ukraine is his next act after Donald Trump was no longer the dancing bear of any significance for him internationally.

 

[WillJ8787]

Um...... Russia already had "missiles very close" to the borders of NATO allies before the United States deployed deterrent weapons.

To your initial point; Putin wins simply by creating a crisis which its American assets at Faux "News" as well as other crisis for profit media outlets will harangue President Biden about. If President Biden and the Democrats lose, then Putin wins.

Deplorables and anti Democratic forces are also exacerbating existing problems in an effort to portray President Biden and Democrats as bad for America.

They do that ^ with eveything:

Deplorables refusal to get vaccinated and prolonging of the pandemic??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

Deplorables refusal to address climate change and their push to expand fossil fuel??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

The economic effects of Deplorables prolonging the pandemic and worsening climate change??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

Putin is just piling on with his manufactured crisis in Ukraine. The only threat Uktaine poses to Putin and Russia is its potential to become far less corrupt , thus denying Russia opportunities to exploit the Ukranian people.

That ^ won't stop the usual Deplorables from claiming that the "crisis" in Ukraine is President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

SAD!!!

I agree with you. These dopies....they are being mislead by their own people and by Putin and his misinformation army.

Political movements are layers upon layers and the Russians are masters at this....Putin is playing us on multiple levels all at once.

The best outcome is Ukraine becoming a member of NATO...the consequences of it will be less than the vast majority of other outcomes.

 

[WillJ8787]

Um...... Russia already had "missiles very close" to the borders of NATO allies before the United States deployed deterrent weapons.

To your initial point; Putin wins simply by creating a crisis which its American assets at Faux "News" as well as other crisis for profit media outlets will harangue President Biden about. If President Biden and the Democrats lose, then Putin wins.

Deplorables and anti Democratic forces are also exacerbating existing problems in an effort to portray President Biden and Democrats as bad for America.

They do that ^ with eveything:

Deplorables refusal to get vaccinated and prolonging of the pandemic??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

Deplorables refusal to address climate change and their push to expand fossil fuel??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

The economic effects of Deplorables prolonging the pandemic and worsening climate change??? That's President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

Putin is just piling on with his manufactured crisis in Ukraine. The only threat Uktaine poses to Putin and Russia is its potential to become far less corrupt , thus denying Russia opportunities to exploit the Ukranian people.

That ^ won't stop the usual Deplorables from claiming that the "crisis" in Ukraine is President Biden's and the Democrat's fault.

SAD!!!

Can you source any other information regarding Soviet aggression prior to the 1959 agreement with Turkey to install missiles?

I came up with this: "The history of Jupiter missiles in Europe began with Sputnik. In 1957, the Soviet Union successfully launched the first unmanned satellite, Sputnik. Fearing that the Soviet Union had developed long range missiles, America offered to install their intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBMs) in NATO countries.[1] This move, while meant to protect Europe and reassure America’s allies, was only accepted by Britain, Italy, and Turkey.[2] Turkey sought out these missiles as part of their massive effort to modernize their military forces. Also, Turkey shared a maritime border with the Soviet Union and felt exposed and weak in the face of a possible Soviet invasion. At a time where Europe genuinely believed it could be hit with a nuclear bomb at any moment, the Soviet threat for the less protected, less equipped, and newly-formed Republic of Turkey was very real.
In October of 1959, the agreement to send Jupiter missiles to Turkey was signed."

 

[icanhelp1]

I agree with you. These dopies....they are being mislead by their own people and by Putin and his misinformation army.

Political movements are layers upon layers and the Russians are masters at this....Putin is playing us on multiple levels all at once.

The best outcome is Ukraine becoming a member of NATO...the consequences of it will be less than the vast majority of other outcomes.

Ukraine becoming part of NATO is at the heart of the problem. Paul is spot on. Before Ukraine can become a functioning member of NATO it has to clean up its own issues, get rid of corruption within its borders, maintain a functioning democracy and prove it can be a productive member. Right now the fabric of the Ukraine population is split and could change government at the drop of a hat. For NATO to put any credence in Ukraine membership it has to prove it can be a stable democracy and have a solid functioning government.

 

[ll74]

The main point here is that Russia isn't the party who decides nato membership. They are there to intimidate and obstruct any action not in any way meant to advance Ukraine or NATOs interest.

I agree with you. These dopies....they are being mislead by their own people and by Putin and his misinformation army.

Political movements are layers upon layers and the Russians are masters at this....Putin is playing us on multiple levels all at once.



Ukraine becoming part of NATO is at the heart of the problem. Paul is spot on. Before Ukraine can become a functioning member of NATO it has to clean up its own issues, get rid of corruption within its borders, maintain a functioning democracy and prove it can be a productive member. Right now the fabric of the Ukraine population is split and could change government at the drop of a hat. For NATO to put any credence in Ukraine membership it has to prove it can be a stable democracy and have a solid functioning government.