Erotics and Horror - compatible at all?

[Dingo_Triplesix]

Hello dear writer colleagues,

I've noticed that most of the highly rated releases in the "erotic horror" category are not really horrific, but rather "soft". True, there are some typical elements like deaths of secondary characters, tentacles, demons or the like. But the stories themselves don't seem to be written to evoke horror and creepiness in readers.

I specifically don't mean to disparage anything here. The stories themselves are very well written, I enjoy reading them. What concerns me is whether genuine horror felt by the reader is compatible with erotic feelings, or whether that is an irresolvable contradiction. In real life, it is. As long as you're busy trying not to get killed by something, you don't have much interest in sex.

The reason for this question: I've written some harder erotic horror stories (German LIT only, sorry), but they got remarkably worse feedback than my others. So I'm looking for a way to incorporate horror into an erotic story that will appeal to readers.

Perhaps there are older discussions on this topic - I've scoured the forum but haven't found much, so I'd appreciate any pointers. Also, if you know of well-received LIT stories that contain hardcore horror (either Stephen King-style psychohorror or simple splatter stuff), please give me a link.

Thanks and best regards from Germany

Dingo

 

[oggbashan]

Why the category was new, I wrote a story that was erotic but not horror. Most of mine in the category are not really 'horror'. It is si possible but difficult.

 

[KeithD]

The definition of what could be horror might be broader than the OP is thinking. I wouldn't worry much about what others put in that category.

 

[gordo12]

It's a difficult category to write in. I only have one story there and I never wrote it intending to go into erotic horror. It just evolved like that. The battle between good and evil morphed into a sexual fascination with evil. I think that's a plotline that can work well in that genre.

I was going to write a ch2 but realized I'd violate the Lit rule of "non-consent must enjoy it." So, shelved!

The score was decent but the readership and voting were very anemic compared to other categories.

 

[ElectricBlue]

What concerns me is whether genuine horror felt by the reader is compatible with erotic feelings, or whether that is an irresolvable contradiction. In real life, it is. As long as you're busy trying not to get killed by something, you don't have much interest in sex.

Broadly true, I think - erotica and pure dark horror may be doing different things psychologically that are incompatible.

Having said that, I've got a 27 chapter EH shaggy dog story, one of my first, that continues to get reads - it's basically a shape-shifter story, onto which I bolted a time-travel mystery yarn, with the protagonists moving backwards and forwards through time. It's not really dark visceral horror, though - the story focus is more the erotica.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Broadly true, I think - erotica and pure dark horror may be doing different things psychologically that are incompatible.

I don't think I agree with that. The push and pull of Eros and Thanatos can be compelling in the right hands. I am thinking of some movies like The Hunger, Don't Look Now and Cat People that did it well.

Personally, I have put two stories in that category, both submissions for the Halloween contest.

Both were erotic ghost stories with (what I hope) were horrific surprise ending. They did well.

Toll Booth

The Dancing Ghost of Webster's Gore

 

[JuanaSalsa]

Hello dear writer colleagues,

I've noticed that most of the highly rated releases in the "erotic horror" category are not really horrific, but rather "soft". True, there are some typical elements like deaths of secondary characters, tentacles, demons or the like. But the stories themselves don't seem to be written to evoke horror and creepiness in readers.

I specifically don't mean to disparage anything here. The stories themselves are very well written, I enjoy reading them. What concerns me is whether genuine horror felt by the reader is compatible with erotic feelings, or whether that is an irresolvable contradiction. In real life, it is. As long as you're busy trying not to get killed by something, you don't have much interest in sex.

The reason for this question: I've written some harder erotic horror stories (German LIT only, sorry), but they got remarkably worse feedback than my others. So I'm looking for a way to incorporate horror into an erotic story that will appeal to readers.

Perhaps there are older discussions on this topic - I've scoured the forum but haven't found much, so I'd appreciate any pointers. Also, if you know of well-received LIT stories that contain hardcore horror (either Stephen King-style psychohorror or simple splatter stuff), please give me a link.

Thanks and best regards from Germany

Dingo

Not sure what you mean by "soft" but any story that has a noncon aspect will go in the noncon category, horror or not. I have a noncon story that features the Slenderman, for example.

Also, Lit doesn't allow a lot of gory violence. My first story had to be edited to remove a scene that was intended to elicit horror, and followed the "must result in an orgasm" rule. However, it was too graphically violent for Lit, and I had to rewrite it.

For me, the most horrifying erotica I ever read was twenty years ago on Lit, I guess before they got good at weeding through stories, and it was not arousing at all, and part of that was because it was presented as if it was not horrifying, when it really was - and it was real people, no fantastic monster to blame. Anything less than that (and nothing else has even come close) I can generally find arousing, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and Lit has their line, fuzzy as it is, it at least exists.

I guess, the limit of how horrifying a story can be and still be arousing is very subjective and the types of stories you find on Lit are a reflection of where the moderators have put that limit here. Frankly, having seen my example of "worst ever" I'm happy that a limit exists, I'd rather have a lower limit than nothing.

 

[SimonDoom]

The suggestion that they are incompatible is belied by the plain fact that there are so many erotic horror movies and stories.

A staple of horror movies is young people having sex. They go hand in hand. Think Friday the 13th movies. Or Cabin In The Woods.

Both horror and erotica induce thrills, endorphin rushes.

Both horror and erotica are edgy, as well. They put the reader/viewer in a place that is uncomfortable, but also thrilling and enjoyable.

 

[Dingo_Triplesix]

Thank you so much for your input.

@MelissaBaby:
Special thanks for the links. I read "The Dancing Ghost of Webster´s Gore". It is a fantastic story, I really enjoyed it. It´s also a perfect example of what I meant: I would describe this as mystery, not horror. I felt a sense of wonder and curiosity when reading it, but no fear.

@JuanaSalsa:
It´s interesting what you say about this old story you read once. Do you think it would have been possible to add something to this story, so that the arousal would have worked?

@SimonDoom:
Maybe I have to be more precise. I know the movies you mention, but my feeling is that there the erotic side plots are used as a device to deepen the horror experience. So this is kind of vice versa to what I see at LIT: here the "soft" horror elements are used to deepen the erotic experience.

My question is: Does anybody know an example, where both is achieved simultaneously? For a movie this would mean a steaming hot porno also containing a truly goosebump-inducing horror plot?

Thanks in advance!
Dingo

 

[SimonDoom]

@SimonDoom:
Maybe I have to be more precise. I know the movies you mention, but my feeling is that there the erotic side plots are used as a device to deepen the horror experience. So this is kind of vice versa to what I see at LIT: here the "soft" horror elements are used to deepen the erotic experience.

My question is: Does anybody know an example, where both is achieved simultaneously? For a movie this would mean a steaming hot porno also containing a truly goosebump-inducing horror plot?

Thanks in advance!
Dingo

I tried to do this in my tentacle porn story, Planet of the Tentacons, and in my bizarre erotic horror story Penis Fish. The goal in both cases was to combine a sense of dread and creepiness along with a sense of the erotic. Whether it worked in either case is very much a matter of individual taste. I think that's the challenge of this category. Readers are very particular about what they think is enjoyably horrifying and what they think is erotic, and hitting the sweet spot where both overlap is not easy.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Thank you so much for your input.

@MelissaBaby:
Special thanks for the links. I read "The Dancing Ghost of Webster´s Gore". It is a fantastic story, I really enjoyed it. It´s also a perfect example of what I meant: I would describe this as mystery, not horror. I felt a sense of wonder and curiosity when reading it, but no fear.

Thank you so much for your kind comments.

I think what we find scary is as subjective as is what we find sexy.

My advice to you would be to write the kind of stories that work for you, and do the best you can on them. Others will either connect with them or they will not.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think erotic content can work with hardcore splatter type horror, but I think the erotica would also need to be more hardcore. Full on gore 80's style slasher horror wouldn't be conducive to romance if they happen at the same time or close to each other.

You could right a more romantic scene and pull it off it the horror follows or was before it.

Also, a lot of the young people having sex in movies get killed during it, and that could violate lits vague AF snuff rule.

I had two stories on here, both have been pulled to be expanded and put into print-that featured hardcore sex, gore, horror, and good old fashioned violence. I touted them as an 80's style slasher or exploitation film in print form.

They did fine when they were here, but I also had some separation in all the elements.

On the topic of EH in general, there are some great stories there, but FFS I wish people would stop with the succubus trope, because 90% of them have no idea what it is other than "Um, a hot sex demon" and being a horror aficionado, and having spent more time than I should have on the occult in my younger days, I can't stand it.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Erm, less succubus bashing please, different strokes for different folks!

Anyway, this is the only lit series that gave me both orgasms and nightmares:
https://www.literotica.com/s/slave-womans-grave-keeper-pt-01
It's slow moving at times but it stayed with me.

 

[AlinaX]

I love the old tales of succubi. I keep wanting to write a proper succubus tale.

Writing horror isn't easy, but balancing horror and erotica is certainly possible. I've read stories that have had a real impact on me because of that, and I try occasionally to do it myself.

 

[lovecraft68]

Erm, less succubus bashing please, different strokes for different folks!

Anyway, this is the only lit series that gave me both orgasms and nightmares:
https://www.literotica.com/s/slave-womans-grave-keeper-pt-01
It's slow moving at times but it stayed with me.

When they learn to write it, I won't bash it.

For a lesson in succubus stories read Purely Sinful by Rozlyn(something like that, its in the top ten of the EH hall of fame) the rest of the stories here shouldn't even be allowed to share the site with that one.

 

[lovecraft68]

I love the old tales of succubi. I keep wanting to write a proper succubus tale.

Writing horror isn't easy, but balancing horror and erotica is certainly possible. I've read stories that have had a real impact on me because of that, and I try occasionally to do it myself.

My first EH books ended up being too sexy heavy. I had written pure smut for several years before trying to blend the genres and went to much in favor of the erotic parts.

The last two had more story than sex, but were also twice the length of the first two.

 

[lovecraft68]

Erm, less succubus bashing please, different strokes for different folks!

Anyway, this is the only lit series that gave me both orgasms and nightmares:
https://www.literotica.com/s/slave-womans-grave-keeper-pt-01
It's slow moving at times but it stayed with me.

Cool, horror for incels.

 

[Winter_Fare]

I'm blowing raspberries at you Lovecraft, so there.

 

[Winter_Fare]

I love the old tales of succubi. I keep wanting to write a proper succubus tale.

Doooo iiiiit!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Hello dear writer colleagues,

I've noticed that most of the highly rated releases in the "erotic horror" category are not really horrific, but rather "soft". True, there are some typical elements like deaths of secondary characters, tentacles, demons or the like. But the stories themselves don't seem to be written to evoke horror and creepiness in readers.

I specifically don't mean to disparage anything here. The stories themselves are very well written, I enjoy reading them. What concerns me is whether genuine horror felt by the reader is compatible with erotic feelings, or whether that is an irresolvable contradiction. In real life, it is.

With the caveat that both "erotic" and "horror" are subjective and there will never be consensus on exactly what counts...

I agree that some of what's in EH is maybe not what I'd consider "horror". Some of it has horror trappings - vampires, succubi, tentacle demons, whatever - without being structured as a horror story; IMHO, if it ends happily for the protagonists, it's unlikely to be horror. But even under narrower definitions of "horror", I don't think the two are irreconcilable.

As long as you're busy trying not to get killed by something, you don't have much interest in sex.

That's true enough, but there are ways around and/or through that problem.

Even IRL, "interest in sex" - or affection - sometimes overrides "trying not to get killed by something". People have unprotected sex with that attractive stranger they've just met, people with homicidally jealous spouses still cheat. There's plenty of horror fodder in "my sex drive is urging me to do this dangerous thing that might destroy me".

This is a common enough element in succubus stories: dude realises he's fucking a succubus or SF equivalent, he understands that if he completes the sex act he's gonna die (there's a reason they call it "the little death"), but he can't bring himself to stop. The challenge there for the writer is in making the sexual attraction compelling enough to make that dangerous behaviour believable.

Also, the sex-haver doesn't have to be the person who's at risk. What if you could have mind-blowing sex with that beautiful person, but at the cost of something awful happening to somebody you love? Plenty of horror potential there.

From another angle: sex has a lot to do with physicality, the flesh that we're made of. That's a language horror can speak. Clive Barker frequently writes in that intersection with stories like "The Hellbound Heart", "Jacqueline Ess", "Human Remains", "The Madonna". The first of those deals with a man seeking to explore the limits of sensation, who gets what he asked for but much more than he was reckoning with; it ends in horror but there's a strong erotic theme throughout.

From yet another: nakedness and vulnerability can be sexy but they can also be horrific. Being in love can be terrifying.

Not sure what you mean by "soft" but any story that has a noncon aspect will go in the noncon category, horror or not. I have a noncon story that features the Slenderman, for example.

Also, Lit doesn't allow a lot of gory violence. My first story had to be edited to remove a scene that was intended to elicit horror, and followed the "must result in an orgasm" rule. However, it was too graphically violent for Lit, and I had to rewrite it.

It depends. Horror is a bit more lenient than NC. One of mine has a line about "She undressed him of skin, she undressed him of meat" along with blood and entrails, and that got through in Text With Audio.

 

[JuanaSalsa]

@JuanaSalsa:
It´s interesting what you say about this old story you read once. Do you think it would have been possible to add something to this story, so that the arousal would have worked?
Dingo

No. Nothing could be done to make it arousing, it was vile, horrifying, despicable and I hope that there is no one on Earth who would get aroused by it (but the occasional news story proves otherwise). Last one I heard about, the guy pled insanity.

Who even knows what the intention was of the writer, but it pretty effectively turned off all arousal and resulted in a vacation from reading on Lit. I've read millions of words before and since, and nothing has even come close to being so horrifying.

I feel confident that your story that was disliked was not even close, and moreover, I'd probably enjoy it - if I could read German.

Here's a story in non-con that may be along the lines of what you mean by scary and arousing? It's definitely creepy, but I like it.
https://literotica.com/s/stockholm-syndrome-4

 

[JuanaSalsa]

It depends. Horror is a bit more lenient than NC. One of mine has a line about "She undressed him of skin, she undressed him of meat" along with blood and entrails, and that got through in Text With Audio.

Yes, a very light description as you have posted appears to make it through fine. I was much more descriptive.

Which story was that in? I have had a story idea that revolves around getting skinned alive (clearly magic is needed to survive this) but I figured it would not only not go through on Lit, but also not be interesting to anyone.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes, a very light description as you have posted appears to make it through fine. I was much more descriptive.

Which story was that in?

https://www.literotica.com/s/red-callum-sweet-cate

Horror disclaimer, though it's on the comedy end of things.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm blowing raspberries at you Lovecraft, so there.

Thanks for that. Seriously, I use that line in stories sometimes and then wonder if every reader knows what a raspberry is. Now I know at least some people do.

Blows a kiss back at you.

 

[Winter_Fare]

When they learn to write it, I won't bash it.

For a lesson in succubus stories read Purely Sinful...

I have but I prefer Lilith herald
https://www.literotica.com/s/korinthia-koire