The real cost of the gig economy

[mayfly13]

The real cost of the gig economy - Ross Ashcroft & Shannon Walsh, jan.7, 2022

"In a rare moment of candor, the then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan gave us an insight into what he feels are optimum conditions for workers. The so-called “healthy” economy that he presided over owed its success to what he called "growing worker insecurity.”
Workers with precarious existences are not going to make demands, and this compromised position, coupled with diminishing wages, is the cornerstone to the global gig economy."
https://renegadeinc.com/the-real-cost-of-the-gig-economy/

The audio transcript is available on the Left.

 

[mayfly13]

So how did the dismantling of Workers Unions first,
and then the casualisation/precariatisation of former stable employee occur?
By which parties/presidents, and under what ideological umbrellas?

 

[HisArpy]

The idea behind the conclusion begins with a fallacy that workers have the power to make demands of their employers which independent gig workers don't have.

It's just not true.

 

[ll74]

The real cost of the gig economy - Ross Ashcroft & Shannon Walsh, jan.7, 2022

"In a rare moment of candor, the then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan gave us an insight into what he feels are optimum conditions for workers. The so-called “healthy” economy that he presided over owed its success to what he called "growing worker insecurity.”
Workers with precarious existences are not going to make demands, and this compromised position, coupled with diminishing wages, is the cornerstone to the global gig economy."
https://renegadeinc.com/the-real-cost-of-the-gig-economy/

The audio transcript is available on the Left.

Yep....been saying this for a while. The employees well being and worth have been diminishing for decades. It started with the demonizing of the unions and the useful idiots who joined the cause.

 

[mayfly13]

Yep....been saying this for a while. The employees well being and worth have been diminishing for decades. It started with the demonizing of the unions and the useful idiots who joined the cause.

yup.

And if I understood correctly, both the Right and Left screwed the working class
-- the Right with dismantling of the Unions and the gig economy (although even ?Obama? added to the latter)
-- the Left with encouraging illegal immigration and refugees, used by croneys to push the wages down.

One of the commentators also mentioned Nafta? 1994, which according to him offered no protection for the local workers.




We're focusing on America of course cause US forum, but I presume it applies to most countries.

 

[WillJ8787]

A basic article on the demise of Unions...

Source: https://psmag.com/economics/what-caused-the-decline-of-unions-in-america

Big business and by extension small and mid-sized business have always been anti-union. While lots of "propaganda" exists about why this is(labeling then Communist/Socialist being a predominant theme)

it has always been about profits and to a lesser extent, power and control.

Business elites(the wealthy that control entire sectors of the economy and their govt agents- those put in power positions to ensure those elites their source of power...Money) have always known that a large sector of unemployed, that is maintained continuously, erodes worker power to bargain(collectively via unions or as individuals) and negotiate wages.

 

[ll74]

I'd agree that both parties have led us down this road, though I don't necessarily agree with the details there, but it doesn't matter to me...I think we should do better at balancing the responsibilities that both employees and employers have in the economy...as well as regulatory systems.

I feel like the thought process is that you're just lucky to have a job and that's wrong

yup.

And if I understood correctly, both the Right and Left screwed the working class
-- the Right with dismantling of the Unions and the gig economy (although even ?Obama? added to the latter)
-- the Left with encouraging illegal immigration and refugees, used by croneys to push the wages down.

One of the commentators also mentioned Nafta? 1994, which according to him offered no protection for the local workers.




We're focusing on America of course cause US forum, but I presume it applies to most countries.

 

[WillJ8787]

I'd agree that both parties have led us down this road, though I don't necessarily agree with the details there, but it doesn't matter to me...I think we should do better at balancing the responsibilities that both employees and employers have in the economy...as well as regulatory systems.

I feel like the thought process is that you're just lucky to have a job and that's wrong

Yep ..if you feel lucky to have a job, that is a position of desperation which erodes that individuals ability to think they can bargain for better wages

 

[GothTalk]

yup.

And if I understood correctly, both the Right and Left screwed the working class
-- the Right with dismantling of the Unions and the gig economy (although even ?Obama? added to the latter)

The freedom to work didn't screw the working glass.

I'd agree that both parties have led us down this road, though I don't necessarily agree with the details there, but it doesn't matter to me...I think we should do better at balancing the responsibilities that both employees and employers have in the economy...as well as regulatory systems.

What kind of "balance" of what "responsibilities"??

I feel like the thought process is that you're just lucky to have a job and that's wrong

Why is that wrong??

Why is freedom bad?

Why is liberty such a problem for you psychos???

 

[mayfly13]

I'd agree that both parties have led us down this road, though I don't necessarily agree with the details there, but it doesn't matter to me...I think we should do better at balancing the responsibilities that both employees and employers have in the economy...as well as regulatory systems.

I feel like the thought process is that you're just lucky to have a job and that's wrong

Yep ..if you feel lucky to have a job, that is a position of desperation which erodes that individuals ability to think they can bargain for better wages

As an example(I'm more familiar with the situation in Rest Homes, having been peripherally involved 2 years ago. And it's BRUTAL.)

Across the West, Rest Homes have been largely sold by the State to the for-profit sector.
And while it eliminated the slopinness that one often saw in State-run institutions,
the exploitation of their grossly underpaid nurses and caregivers is brutal.

They're severely (and purposefully) understaffed and rushing off their feet to achieve unrealistic/untenable goals. AND --what is worse-- many residents lose heaps of weight once they get into care, because staff pinch time from feeding time when they run late.

Rest home caregivers and nurses in Australia and NZ are currently, finally having a #MeToo moment: writing petitions to their govts., organized strikes.

I always asked myself: Why did nobody blow the whistle until now? This shit has been going on for decades.
I guess no Unions, fear of losing their jobs or having bad references etc.
Whereas now, with the increase in Public awareness and outrage (the Amazon Warehouse workers exploitation etc.) they feel that they would be supported by the Public.

 

[ll74]

What's clear to me is that Covid made many people come to terms with their feelings regarding work. Some might point to the govt checks as the reason.....I just don't buy that, but I think I probably believe that more people are good people than some others might believe. It really just came to people being forced to see that their savings is depleted and that having time off without making the choice for it is really a positive thing.

It's all speculative, obviously, but I think we've entered into a new reality that isn't going to want to go back into the box.

As an example(I'm more familiar with the situation in Rest Homes, having been peripherally involved 2 years ago. And it's BRUTAL.)

Across the West, Rest Homes have been largely sold by the State to the for-profit sector.
And while it eliminated the slopinness that one often saw in State-run institutions,
the exploitation of their grossly underpaid nurses and caregivers is brutal.

They're severely (and purposefully) understaffed and rushing off their feet to achieve unrealistic/untenable goals. AND --what is worse-- many residents lose heaps of weight once they get into care, because staff pinch time from feeding time when they run late.

Rest home caregivers and nurses in Australia and NZ are currently, finally having a #MeToo moment: writing petitions to their govts., organized strikes.

I always asked myself: Why did nobody blow the whistle until now? This shit has been going on for decades.
I guess no Unions, fear of losing their jobs or having bad references etc.
Whereas now, with the increase in Public awareness and outrage (the Amazon Warehouse workers exploitation etc.) they feel that they would be supported by the Public.

 

[WillJ8787]

As an example(I'm more familiar with the situation in Rest Homes, having been peripherally involved 2 years ago. And it's BRUTAL.)

Across the West, Rest Homes have been largely sold by the State to the for-profit sector.
And while it eliminated the slopinness that one often saw in State-run institutions,
the exploitation of their grossly underpaid nurses and caregivers is brutal.

They're severely (and purposefully) understaffed and rushing off their feet to achieve unrealistic/untenable goals. AND --what is worse-- many residents lose heaps of weight once they get into care, because staff pinch time from feeding time when they run late.

Rest home caregivers and nurses in Australia and NZ are currently, finally having a #MeToo moment: writing petitions to their govts., organized strikes.

I always asked myself: Why did nobody blow the whistle until now? This shit has been going on for decades.
I guess no Unions, fear of losing their jobs or having bad references etc.
Whereas now, with the increase in Public awareness and outrage (the Amazon Warehouse workers exploitation etc.) they feel that they would be supported by the Public.

You use a great example. I know a family who owns senior living facilities here on the east coast. While their employees are grossly underpaid (mostly black, Mexican) this family has multiple million dollar homes and one is on the beach front where I go to vacation. After the covid debacle in facilities like this, which also is a function of owners refusal to pay staff more, pay for more trained staff, pay well enough not to have tremendously high staff turnover(even before covid...it is a long standing and well known problem) by taking less money out of the running of the business.

It is appalling, immoral and totally accepted in our current society as something "we can do nothing about". Totally wrong in my opinion.

 

[mayfly13]

What's clear to me is that Covid made many people come to terms with their feelings regarding work. Some might point to the govt checks as the reason.....I just don't buy that, but I think I probably believe that more people are good people than some others might believe. It really just came to people being forced to see that their savings is depleted and that having time off without making the choice for it is really a positive thing.

It's all speculative, obviously, but I think we've entered into a new reality that isn't going to want to go back into the box.

Exactly. I'm feeling that too.
While I often feel frustrated with the fact that NOTHING changes Politically (we elect the R which screws us, so then in reaction we elect the L which screws us too, so then we elect the R which screws us and so on).

I feel too, that the Pandemic led to an awakening and action on the part of the working class.

 

[mayfly13]

You use a great example. I know a family who owns senior living facilities here on the east coast. While their employees are grossly underpaid (mostly black, Mexican) this family has multiple million dollar homes and one is on the beach front where I go to vacation. After the covid debacle in facilities like this, which also is a function of owners refusal to pay staff more, pay for more trained staff, pay well enough not to have tremendously high staff turnover(even before covid...it is a long standing and well known problem) by taking less money out of the running of the business.

It is appalling, immoral and totally accepted in our current society as something "we can do nothing about". Totally wrong in my opinion.

A neighbor's father, who had Parkinson died in a Rest Home, and the fact that he was barely over 40kgs when he died I'm pretty sure speeded up his death. She said that when she would visit the Rest Home and look through his feeding chart from his room , she would often read "refused poridge.ensure etc."

I can easily imagine this scenario:
some casual caregivers would write that down cause a person with Parkinson takes ages to feed, so it's either "feed clients properly or not finish your tasks and risk not being called back for casual jobs."

And when his severe weight loss came up during team reviews, the 'treatment plan' would say: "caregivers to be more proactive in encouraging eating"
When the right 'treatment' would be: employ one more person to feed people, or lighten up caregivers' other chores so that they have time to feed patients.

It's outrageous and scary .
Never in my life would have I thought that this happens in a Western country.

 

[GothTalk]

What's clear to me is that Covid made many people come to terms with their feelings regarding work. Some might point to the govt checks as the reason.....I just don't buy that, but I think I probably believe that more people are good people than some others might believe. It really just came to people being forced to see that their savings is depleted and that having time off without making the choice for it is really a positive thing.

It's all speculative, obviously, but I think we've entered into a new reality that isn't going to want to go back into the box.

No shit...print a few trillion more!!!


If you're savings are in dollars, as in you're hoarding your dollars? You're economically illiterate retard and deserve to be left with your extremally devalued US dollars.

LET'S GO BRANDON!!! PRINT A FEW MORE TRILLION!!!!

 

[WillJ8787]

A neighbor's father, who had Parkinson died in a Rest Home, and the fact that he was barely over 40kgs when he died I'm pretty sure speeded up his death. She said that when she would visit the Rest Home and look through his feeding chart from his room , she would often read "refused poridge.ensure etc."

I can easily imagine this scenario:
some casual caregivers would write that down cause a person with Parkinson takes ages to feed, so it's either "feed clients properly or not finish your tasks and risk not being called back for casual jobs."

And when his severe weight loss came up during team reviews, the 'treatment plan' would say: "caregivers to be more proactive in encouraging eating"
When the right 'treatment' would be: employ one more person to feed people, or lighten up caregivers' other chores so that they have time to feed patients.

It's outrageous and scary .
Never in my life would have I thought that this happens in a Western country.

Yes, sad and criminal in my mind and all too common.

 

[pecksniff]

So how did the dismantling of Workers Unions first,
and then the casualisation/precariatisation of former stable employee occur?
By which parties/presidents, and under what ideological umbrellas?

Robert Reich diagnosed that back in 1991, in The Work of Nations. Unions work best in factories -- they're not so adaptable to a deindustrialized service economy.

 

[pecksniff]

The idea behind the conclusion begins with a fallacy that workers have the power to make demands of their employers which independent gig workers don't have.

It's just not true.

Of course it is true. A unionized worker's only strength in bargaining is that the employer can't just find somebody else who will settle for less. In a gig situation, he always can.

 

[GothTalk]

Of course it is true. A unionized worker's only strength in bargaining is that the employer can't just find somebody else who will settle for less. In a gig situation, he always can.

And people willing to work for what is being offered can too.

That's what's so WONDERFUL about freedom and liberty.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Out of sheer curiosity - anyone have experience working in the gig economy or in a gig role?

I know several people who work for the various driving/delivery services, two who do it full time, and for all of them it's the flexibility that has drawn them to it. That ability to work when they want, to mold their working hours around their personal schedules, and to take on as much, or as little, work as they feel like/need to. That is a pretty powerful draw for a low skill/low wage worker.

I drove a cab for years (mostly while in college/grad school) and though different, it was similar in that one of the strong draws was the ability to control my schedule - though we did have to commit to shifts and there was a heirarchy/kick-back culture, once you learned to navigate it, it was good.

The gig economy developed because of the strength of that undefined benefit (flexibility).

 

[ll74]

Out of sheer curiosity - anyone have experience working in the gig economy or in a gig role?

I know several people who work for the various driving/delivery services, two who do it full time, and for all of them it's the flexibility that has drawn them to it. That ability to work when they want, to mold their working hours around their personal schedules, and to take on as much, or as little, work as they feel like/need to. That is a pretty powerful draw for a low skill/low wage worker.

I drove a cab for years (mostly while in college/grad school) and though different, it was similar in that one of the strong draws was the ability to control my schedule - though we did have to commit to shifts and there was a heirarchy/kick-back culture, once you learned to navigate it, it was good.

The gig economy developed because of the strength of that undefined benefit (flexibility).

I have a couple of friends who work it part time on their off hours. It seems to be hit or miss, but once you get the hang of it, fairly easy....mostly on the delivery side.

 

[mayfly13]

Out of sheer curiosity - anyone have experience working in the gig economy or in a gig role?

I know several people who work for the various driving/delivery services, two who do it full time, and for all of them it's the flexibility that has drawn them to it. That ability to work when they want, to mold their working hours around their personal schedules, and to take on as much, or as little, work as they feel like/need to. That is a pretty powerful draw for a low skill/low wage worker.

I drove a cab for years (mostly while in college/grad school) and though different, it was similar in that one of the strong draws was the ability to control my schedule - though we did have to commit to shifts and there was a heirarchy/kick-back culture, once you learned to navigate it, it was good.

The gig economy developed because of the strength of that undefined benefit (flexibility).

I think it's a great thing for those who want greater flexibility or to top up their full-time employment wages.

But most people, those with kids in particular, want a permanent position that guarantees them work and paid sick days.

Unfortunately,
taking the example of Rest Homes of which I am more aware
the number of "casual worker" positions offered has started to outnumber that of full time or part-time offers.

Permanent employees benefit from weekend bonus pay, sick days and paid national hollidays, casual workers don't.

 

[pecksniff]

Out of sheer curiosity - anyone have experience working in the gig economy or in a gig role?

I have (free-lance legal research for attorneys). It sucks compared to a full-time job with benefits.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I have (free-lance legal research for attorneys). It sucks compared to a full-time job with benefits.

Why'd you do it? (Just curious - I'm a consultant, which means irregular hours, but by no means would I consider it a gig job.)

 

[pecksniff]

Why'd you do it? (Just curious - I'm a consultant, which means irregular hours, but by no means would I consider it a gig job.)

I had no steady job with a law firm at the time. It was an option. But not a good one.