It's high time Queen the 2nd croaks too

[oggbashan]

thats a bit like asking how australia would look today if the A Bomb tests had been carried out there instead of at Bikini Atoll. probably, answer, much the same.

Sorry, Hobbit - they were. there were several nuclear tests IN Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_tests_in_Australia

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Are you referring to Elizabeth I versus II ?
If so yes, they were raised from the start with different purposes in mind, and Starkey was mostly playing name semantics.

I posted it mainly to have a fun at the expense of butters or ogg.
In saying that, after reading David Starkey's comments I couldn't help but think that yes, Starkey might have been right.

Elizabeth II 's mother was described as being intelligent, intellectual and refined

Whereas - have you seen clips of Queen Elizabeth I's mother and of her daughter Ann? They were both coming across as unsophisticated and anti-intellectual, more commoners than royal.
And Prince Andrew and Prince Harry don't shine either.

Yes, that was my reference. E One had big balls. E Two has big tits. E Two's mother lived damned near forever. E One's mother's head rolled across the floor, as I recall. Tudors may have been schmahteh than Windsors.

since i'm not, nor ever have been, a royalist that's not exactly likely, is it?

So, you're freelance. Got it Does the old woman want you to bring back her head???

thats a bit like asking how australia would look today if the A Bomb tests had been carried out there instead of at Bikini Atoll. probably, answer, much the same.

Naughty person!!!

 

[pecksniff]

she ordered the hit on Princess Diana

Nobody believes that.

 

[pecksniff]

Incidentally, I was just perusing public comments to news, and came across this:

"The worst part is that he is now eligible to sit in the House of Lords and put his oar in to "govern" the people who did not vote for him."


Wouldn't that be duplicitous?

How? He's a knight, not a peer.

 

[pecksniff]

Anyway, the Queen will probably die of natural causes in a few years. She's 96 now.

 

[mayfly13]

RE TONY BLAIR -- THE MIDDLE EAST:

Just listening to an Iranian analyst:


He was saying that Sadam Husseing DID actually use chemical weapons (provided by the British, Germans, Belgium, anto a lesser degree by France), but on Kurds and Iranian civilians/military during the Iran-Iraq war.
Yet none of this was in the Western media.

When did Western media start talking about Sadam Hussein and chemical weapons? When Iraq entered Kuwait. It was exactly then when Bush went on TV, saying "this monster is killing his own people etc.", after which Tony Blair etc.

 

[Champakian]

Iran took in the refugees that survived the gassing...

Of course, Saddam gassed them too.

 

[oggbashan]

It WAS in the Western Media in the UK and Europe in large headlines at the time. We even had TV reports showing pictures of Kurds in hospital and piles of dead. That is why Tony Blair's lies were believed.

 

[Champakian]

So, weapons of mass destruction were employed,
you know it, but Tony was your Trump,
so he was just lying about WMDs,
the ones Saddam kept telling us
–– he had still...

So when Putin tells us he's not going to invade
Crimea, as he did with Georgia and Crimea,
if Tony Blair were to pint this out,
you know, for sure, he's
lying and Putin? ––

NO WORRIES MATE!

 

[Champakian]

Remember all of those missile that he was ordered to destroy
and was patiently destroying the older ones at the rate
of, what? two annually just for show?

 

[oggbashan]

The UK (and US) intelligence agencies were saying that Saddam had got rid of (or sent to other countries) his chemical weapons of mass destruction but Bush and Blair told the general public (and the UN) that Saddam still had them despite their own experts.

 

[Champakian]

Only once he knew we were inbound...


And how is him giving his bad stuff to bad actors any different from
Iran, Afghanistan Cuba or North Korea exporting terrorism/revolution/violence?

I suppose that it would have been best to wait until the more reasonable Qusay and Uday took over.

 

[mayfly13]

I'm having a bit of a problem following you guys, because I'm a bit illiterate with regards to the Middle East & West-East politics.

To rephrase what I was trying to say:

Marandi's point wasn't that the West was right that Saddam had chemical weapons.
They knew that Saddam had them & had used them on Iranians, given that the British/Germans/Belgians had supplied them. (Marandi fought in the Iran-Iraq war)

His point was about the selective self-righteous outrage.
It only became a problem to Bush&Blair, when Saddam invaded a country that was of strategic interest to the Western axis.

This is the guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6WeTUqpmRI

 

[Champakian]

It's bad news when we look at our leaders and hold
them in contempt in order to apologize for the rape of Kuwait
and the most meaningless war in the world resplendent with atrocity.

I guess the left was right, those people are less than human and just want to kill each other...

SO LET THEM!!! (Especially the heirs of Saladin –– the Kurds.)

Fremdschämen

 

[mayfly13]

The UK (and US) intelligence agencies were saying that Saddam had got rid of (or sent to other countries) his chemical weapons of mass destruction but Bush and Blair told the general public (and the UN) that Saddam still had them despite their own experts.

yes, that makes sense.
So from what Marandi & you guys are saying, have I got this right?

There was this Iraq-Iran war, in which the West didn't get officially involved.
But as soon as Iraq entered Kuwait, Blair-Bush decided to involve England/The US too.

Instead of citing geopolitical reasons, Blair-Bush used the 'humanitarian' motive.

They claimed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
Even tho the said chemical weapons used during the Iran-Iraq wars had been supplied by Britain, Germany and Belgium. And even tho Intelligence agencies informed Bush-Blair that Saddam had subsequently got rid of them.

 

[mayfly13]

You have the Roman Empire -- Western Europe cradle of culture,
and you have the Greece/Iran(Persia) -- Eastern Europe cradle of culture.

Yes, I am a bit racist myself.
And Iran leaders are totalitarian, the oil and gold are elsewhere in the Middle East

But I find it both ignorant and offensive how Anglo-Saxon leaders have created this narrative in which they put Iran, one of the most advanced, sophisticated and Europe-centric cultures, in the same bucket with more backward Middle Eastern and Asian cultures.

 

[Champakian]

As long as the Mullahs are in charge, they will be treated as
the aggressive intolerant backwater that they have created.

But don't take my word on, look at the actions of the Iranian
people who keep taking to the streets knowing that they will
be subjected to jail or death but they have nothing now.

Maybe take off your rose-colored glasses.
They export terrorism and their
"beautiful culture" is working
on nuclear-tipped rockets.

Now, as Belli pointed out over on the politics board,
maybe with 20-20 hindsight in the future we will
see that this is much ado about nothing, but can
we really afford to sit back and do nothing knowing
that they have vowed to use them to, among things,
genocide the Jews and seize oilfields and shipping lanes
in order to export the most virulent form of Islam outside
of maybe just a few other garden spots of culture.

Can we really take that chance because of what they used
to be in our imaginations or what they could become
at some point in the future? CAN WE???

It was the same tipping point with Iraq.
Mesopotamia? The cradle of civilization?
Look at what they did (not at what they do)...

 

[oggbashan]

Iran supports terrorism: Hamas in Israel, Hezbollah in Lebanon; the rebels in Yemen; Islamic militants in Africa etc.

Iran is a rogue state trying to produce a nuclear bomb so it can attack Israel.

Yet many Iranian citizens want democratic freedom and the abolition of the religious police who enforce clothing and other restrictions.

 

[mayfly13]

I love Iranian laypeople.
Most of their laypeople that I met had the positives of Westerners (upfront interactions, none of the 'behind you back' gossip of some Eastern Europeans and none of the primitive calculated cunning that some Asians and Arabs engage in)
but also a lot of warmth and openness.

I was browsing the other day pics from the 70's and they were so sophisticated and Western, you'd have thought you're in Italy or France.

But you guys are right. It's their backward leaders, not necessarily the West, who created this backward image of them.

 

[mayfly13]

Iran supports terrorism: Hamas in Israel, Hezbollah in Lebanon; the rebels in Yemen; Islamic militants in Africa etc.

Iran is a rogue state trying to produce a nuclear bomb so it can attack Israel.

Yet many Iranian citizens want democratic freedom and the abolition of the religious police who enforce clothing and other restrictions.

Oh, the State of Israel.
Another major fuck-up.

I was talking to people and they were saying that many of the atrocities and evictions by Israelis are hyped by media, and that Israel is actually a progressive state for both Jews and Muslims.

But it WAS a land-grab. You just don't return thousands of years to claim your land on Your terms.

 

[Champakian]

So you're telling me that Native Americans should just roll over and die?

 

[Champakian]

It's not a backwater image!


The Mullahs aren't even Persian, they're from Lebanon.

It's a backwater REALITY.

 

[mayfly13]

So you're telling me that Native Americans should just roll over and die?

lol no
The forgotten demographic. I hear so much about African-Americans on TV (don't get me wrong, I'm not minimizing the killings and racism) or aliens, but I find it dubious that the American Left doesn't focus on Native Americans at all.
For example, the periodic disappearance (likely murders) of NA women.

Fewer left to vote them in?

 

[Champakian]

Hey, they've always been free to emigrate to Liberia...


All we get is the land nobody wants and permission to run casinos.
(Until the whites discover a use for that land, and then it's eviction time.)

I equate that to the same government fraud that I outlined earlier this morning with the Lottery.

Government taking advantage of people's illiteracy (and subjegation).

 

[mayfly13]

Hey, they've always been free to emigrate to Liberia...


All we get is the land nobody wants and permission to run casinos.
(Until the whites discover a use for that land, and then it's eviction time.)

I equate that to the same government fraud that I outlined earlier this morning with the Lottery.

Government taking advantage of people's illiteracy (and subjegation).

omg you're right. Just found this:


"Indian lands are owned and managed by the federal government.
Chief Justice John Marshall set Native Americans on the path to poverty in 1831 when he characterized the relationship between Indians and the government as “resembling that of a ward to his guardian.” With these words, Marshall established the federal trust doctrine, which assigns the government as the trustee of Indian affairs. That trusteeship continues today, but it has not served Indians well.

Underlying this doctrine is the notion that tribes are not capable of owning or managing their lands. The government is the legal owner of all land and assets in Indian Country and is required to manage them for the benefit of Indians.

But because Indians do not generally own their land or homes on reservations, they cannot mortgage their assets for loans like other Americans. This makes it incredibly difficult to start a business in Indian Country. Even tribes with valuable natural resources remain locked in poverty. Their resources amount to “dead capital”—unable to generate growth for tribal communities.

Reservations contain valuable natural resources worth nearly $1.5 trillion, according to a recent estimate. But the vast majority of these resources remain undeveloped because the federal government gets in the way. As long as tribes are denied the right to control their own resources, they will remain locked in poverty and dependence."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...-native-americans-in-poverty/?sh=24aa3ce52c27