Am I committing plagiarism or not?

[KeithD]

To be more specific: it's only plagiarism if you can get caught for it. Fact is that many people come to similar conclusions in science. Just because this happens does not mean anyone was plagiarized.

Which was why I noted it mostly kicks in, when applied to lesser applicable material, when, as with this thread, you realize you are doing it specifically and presenting it as your conception.

 

[Bramblethorn]

There are only so many ways to write sex scenes. Some resemblance to other writer's lines is inevitable. But you are talking about something more than that, you are saying that you love another writer's dialogue so much that you want to repeat it verbatim, or s close to it as you can.

Something I find useful in this sort of situation, and especially when it comes to the related question of song lyrics, is to ask myself why I want to use somebody else's words (whether intact or modified).

If the answer comes down to something like "I want the reader to understand that Jake is the kind of guy who quotes Proust at every opportunity to remind you that he's read it", or "Sarah has trouble recognising her own emotions and has to listen to her internal soundtrack to know how she's feeling", I'm comfortable with doing that.

OTOH, if it's more like "when I read that sentence it made me feel a powerful emotion, and I want to make my readers feel that same emotion", then I need to think about whether I'm actually doing my own work here or just lip-syncing to somebody else's song.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If you are an academic, and you write an article and you claim that an important new idea is yours, when you know in fact that someone else came up with the idea, you have committed plagiarism, whether you quote the other person's work line by line or not. You have committed a major ethical breach.

Potentially so even for your own ideas, if you're representing it as novel when you've already published it elsewhere.

In the context of copyright and fiction, it not necessary to quote line by line to commit infringement. There is no clear, bright-line test. You can commit infringement by borrowing from plot, characters, scenes, etc. The main issue is whether it's specific and original enough to be more than just an idea -- it has to be the unique, original expression of an idea.

Re. copyright of characters, Gaiman v. McFarlane is a notable example where that was tested in court. Gaiman worked on a few issues of McFarlane's comics, writing new characters which McFarlane then drew; later, McFarlane sold merchandise for these characters. Gaiman argued that his role in their creation made him a joint owner of the copyright, entitled to royalties; the jury agreed and their finding was upheld on appeal.

 

[Agiel]

I find all the opinions in respect of the OP’s question very interesting as on other threads. Sometimes. Personally, I can’t see why the OP can’t/shouldn’t use the phrase. Literotica is a not for profit site and the number of stories, either because of their length or quality, worth trying to sell is infinitesimally small.

If you read all the thousands of stories on this site I’m sure you would find many examples of similarities including use of the same words and phrases. There are only so many ways of killing someone and describing it.

It was mentioned in a thread recently of a writer using the phrase “I want everyone to hear when I scream your name” or something very similar. There’s a line in a song from 2005 “I love it when you scream my name.” Did the Lit writer ask permission to use that phrase? I shouldn’t think so. Why would they? It’s probably been used on many occasions. The songwriter probably heard it from somewhere. How does the OP know the writer he’s crediting with the phrase he wants to use was the originator?

If someone chose to copy a word or phrase from one of my stories I would be very flattered. Assuming I hadn’t copied it myself from somewhere else. If they copied an entire scene I would be very annoyed.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You know if we keep talking about this, the Candyman shows up.

Only if you say his name three time in a row.

 

[quietmischief]

I have been trying to find a thread on this. I read a story on here from earlier this year. It was essentially exactly my story (I had it from an American version, this was a European version). I am not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I am at one point flattered that this "author" would pretty much take my entire content, but part of me wishes they would have made some sort of reference to it being a re-write of my story. The author doesn't allow comments or messages to them, so I have been unable to directly ask. Would love to hear anyone's input on this. Thanks for reading.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have been trying to find a thread on this. I read a story on here from earlier this year. It was essentially exactly my story (I had it from an American version, this was a European version). I am not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I am at one point flattered that this "author" would pretty much take my entire content, but part of me wishes they would have made some sort of reference to it being a re-write of my story. The author doesn't allow comments or messages to them, so I have been unable to directly ask. Would love to hear anyone's input on this. Thanks for reading.

If you can find the story again, do a side by side textual analysis that demonstrates it's been derived from your story. Send that as a proof to Laurel, and she'll take the second story down, if it's demonstrably plagiarized from yours.

Proof is in the pudding - find the story, show the evidence. The fact the author doesn't allow comments or feedback might be a clue.

 

[rescatooor]

I have been trying to find a thread on this. I read a story on here from earlier this year. It was essentially exactly my story (I had it from an American version, this was a European version). I am not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I am at one point flattered that this "author" would pretty much take my entire content, but part of me wishes they would have made some sort of reference to it being a re-write of my story. The author doesn't allow comments or messages to them, so I have been unable to directly ask. Would love to hear anyone's input on this. Thanks for reading.

Write at the looking for a story section the description of your story and see what happens. Some people there have a frighteningly good memory over the stories they have read.

If they come up with more than one story, maybe the story you were telling wasn't really that unique and it might have been a coincidence. It happens.

If you do find the story, check the publication date first. It would be awkward to accuse someone of stealing your story, when their story predates yours.

And if there really is just the same plot, no word for word passages, the characters are described and named different, you unfortunately do not have a case. Still you might be able to complain to them and let them know you do not approve.

 

[windar]

No, this is not true at all.

Again, you have to keep plagiarism and copyright infringement separate. They are different things.

If you are an academic, and you write an article and you claim that an important new idea is yours, when you know in fact that someone else came up with the idea, you have committed plagiarism, whether you quote the other person's work line by line or not. You have committed a major ethical breach.

In the context of copyright and fiction, it not necessary to quote line by line to commit infringement. There is no clear, bright-line test. You can commit infringement by borrowing from plot, characters, scenes, etc. The main issue is whether it's specific and original enough to be more than just an idea -- it has to be the unique, original expression of an idea.

And, as I said before, it's not stealing to take others' ideas. It's only stealing if they legitimately can claim an exclusive ownership in something. Generally speaking, nobody has exclusive ownership of ideas (the two exceptions being patents and trade secrets).

I suppose I should add that all this talk has nothing to do with the practical risk one faces of writing Literotica stories. That risk is probably very small, whatever the ethics or the theoretical legal liability. As long as Laurel says it goes, you probably will be fine.

Well there is the Fair Use Exemption, which is cited regarding much of the sampling done in the hip-hop world. It would seem to me that the use of a few lines in a long story could well fall under that.

As for academic plagiarism, I am reminded of the hilarious song "Lobachevsky" by the incomparable Tom Lehrer (quoting here with full attribution, so not stealing):


Who made me the genius I am today
The mathematician that others all quote
Who's the professor that made me that way?
The greatest that ever got chalk on his coat

One man deserves the credit
One man deserves the blame
And Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky is his name
Hi!
Nicolai Ivanovich Lobach—

I am never forget the day
I first meet the great Lobachevsky
In one word he told me secret of success in mathematics:
Plagiarize

Plagiarize
Let no one else's work evade your eyes
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes
So don't shade your eyes
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize
Only be sure always to call it please 'research'

 

[Candy_Kane54]

As far as plagiarism goes, don't forget the 1988 trial where John Fogerty was accused of self-plagiarism. When he went solo, his previous band, Creedence Clearwater Revival, sued him for a song, “The Old Man Down the Road,” that sounded similar to something he'd done for CCR, “Run Through the Jungle.”

 

[Brutal_One]

You are probably okay if ….

I suggest if you are already thinking about it you are okay, in particular if you are making a subtle change to the words and it is inserted and is appropriate for your story as everything else will be original. I have used one line myself and made into something more meaningful and impactful than the original.

Brutal One

 

[SimonDoom]

I have been trying to find a thread on this. I read a story on here from earlier this year. It was essentially exactly my story (I had it from an American version, this was a European version). I am not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I am at one point flattered that this "author" would pretty much take my entire content, but part of me wishes they would have made some sort of reference to it being a re-write of my story. The author doesn't allow comments or messages to them, so I have been unable to directly ask. Would love to hear anyone's input on this. Thanks for reading.

Are you confident that the author actually took your story to write their own? That they could not have written their story without having read yours first?

What is the evidence for it?

Are there instances of direct copying of words and lines?

Is the story, including major plot points, the same?

Are the characters the same? Do they have the same or similar names?

Is the setting the same?

There's no way to answer your question without specifics. If you like, you can provide links to the other two stories and offer your analysis, and others can chime in to see if they agree with you.

My experience -- not that this is true of you -- is that many authors get the wrong idea that their story has been stolen, because they see similarities in the plot concepts and themes, when in fact the similarity is fortuitous. Fortuitous similarity is not infringement or plagiarism.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Well there is the Fair Use Exemption, which is cited regarding much of the sampling done in the hip-hop world. It would seem to me that the use of a few lines in a long story could well fall under that.

I wouldn't count on it. A lot of hip-hop samples are used under license. Unlicensed samples can lead to expensive lawsuits:
https://www.factmag.com/2016/06/25/sampling-hip-hop-copyright/

The Verve's "Bitter Sweet Symphony" used a few seconds sampled from a Rolling Stones cover, and as a result they lost all royalties on what turned out to be their best-known song.

There is a famous hip-hop fair use case related to the 2 Live Crew cover of "Pretty Woman", but that wasn't sampling.

 

[Abbafan]

I wrote a story (haven't published yet) and when I read it, I realise that the sex scene's plot/flow is a bit similar to a popular story I used to read on lit. On top of that, a few story/dialog lines that are almost the same as the original story.

The original story has been removed from lit as it got published somewhere. I was heavily influenced by that story it seems but I can't think of any better/other way to write it. The resemblance besides the sex scene's plot is maybe like 5-10 sentences in total scattered through the story, not in the exact order. They are different by like a word or two.

The original story has been removed from lit now but still encrypted in my brain I guess lol. Is this still considered plagiarism?

If so, I will have to re-write.

bonus question: What if I Contact the author of the original story and ask for their permission?

How similar are they? You see the same premises popping up often here. Does yours play out in pretty much exactly the same way, though? Did you at least find a slightly different angle for your story?

 

[quietmischief]

Sorry, wasn't here for a bit..... So, the first one is my story:

https://literotica.com/s/stripping-in-the-car

submitted/published 3/28/11 by myself

Here is the story that I questioned....

https://www.literotica.com/s/the-football-car-strip-game

submitted/published 1/15/21 by AnnieJames

I realize that there are sometimes things that are close, but this seems a little too close. And not that I am upset that my story was taken, just wish there was something saying that it was taken from mine at the beginning to bring readers to my other stories. Would love to hear if others feel this was copied.. Thanks in advance!

 

[ElectricBlue]

Sorry, wasn't here for a bit..... So, the first one is my story:

https://literotica.com/s/stripping-in-the-car

submitted/published 3/28/11 by myself

Here is the story that I questioned....

https://www.literotica.com/s/the-football-car-strip-game

submitted/published 1/15/21 by AnnieJames

I realize that there are sometimes things that are close, but this seems a little too close. And not that I am upset that my story was taken, just wish there was something saying that it was taken from mine at the beginning to bring readers to my other stories. Would love to hear if others feel this was copied.. Thanks in advance!

I'd take that to Laurel and let her decide. I suggest you do a side by side paragraph by paragraph analysis, your text/other text. It looks like plagiarism to me, hidden by a ten year gap and an attempt to "look over there" by changing countries.

I only scanned the first several hundred words of each, but there are too many identical sentences for this to be a coincidence. But you have to do the work to count up the number of identical sentences, to make a case stick.

 

[SimonDoom]

My take:

This is obviously copyright infringement, and it's wrong. There are too many lines that are directly copied. If the original author sued, the original author would win. That's not likely to happen, but it doesn't make it right.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Fan fiction could be considered copyright infringement. Sometimes it's a question of where does the author of the original work wish to draw the line. And we won't know until we have seen fan fiction discussed in court. It's just a question of a few years. (I think most recent discussion had to do with Omegaverse but as far as I know, there is no conclusion to it as of yet.)

Even if Omegaverse were to go to court, the likely outcome would be "lol, case dismissed". The claims there are so misguided that a verdict isn't likely to shed much light on broader fanfic issues where the law is actually grey.

 

[ElectricBlue]

My take:

This is obviously copyright infringement, and it's wrong. There are too many lines that are directly copied. If the original author sued, the original author would win. That's not likely to happen, but it doesn't make it right.

I have a vague feeling AnnieJames has been mentioned in despatches before, maybe in the context of another site. I'm probably wrong about that, but for quietmischief I reckon this one is a lay down misere. Go to Laurel with a side by side of the first thousand words. That would cinch it, I reckon.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I wrote a story (haven't published yet) and when I read it, I realise that the sex scene's plot/flow is a bit similar to a popular story I used to read on lit. On top of that, a few story/dialog lines that are almost the same as the original story.

The original story has been removed from lit as it got published somewhere. I was heavily influenced by that story it seems but I can't think of any better/other way to write it. The resemblance besides the sex scene's plot is maybe like 5-10 sentences in total scattered through the story, not in the exact order. They are different by like a word or two.

The original story has been removed from lit now but still encrypted in my brain I guess lol. Is this still considered plagiarism?

If so, I will have to re-write.

bonus question: What if I Contact the author of the original story and ask for their permission?

Stop overthinking. If they're your own words, its not plagiarism. We all get story ideas from everywhere, and there's nothing wrong with stealing a plot. Heck, there's books on how to do it. Maybe you got the idea from another story, maybe some lines stuck in your head. Whatever. Look how many times people use Shakespeare. Forget it. Just write the next story. It's Literotica. Really, who cares if you maybe reused a few lines here and there. If you didn't copy them and they came out of your head, they're yours.

 

[Djmac1031]

Plaugerism is when you copy something line for line, or close enough.

But every writer steals.

Good point. And as someone else pointed out, there's only so many ways to write a sex scene. Sure, we can dress it up in our own unique style, but we all still wind using the same words, the same phrases, (if I had a nickle for every time someone has used the phrase "Her nipples stood out sharply under her dress / shirt / bikini top....") and the same scenarios.

The OP seems to be attached to a specific line from another author, a line about "screaming my name."

There are a million different ways to say that, and it's been said a million different times in erotic stories.

Doesn't mean you can no longer say it. Just means don't say it EXACTLY like the other author.

I wrote a story called A Karen Gets Her Comeuppance, in which I referred to the female lead throughout the story as "THE Karen," a reference to the modern trend of labeling bitchy, obnoxious women with that name.

I saw a story several weeks later, posted after mine, where an author did the same thing. Totally different story, but used the same specific moniker, "The Karen."

Inspired by my story? Maybe. Maybe not. I didn't invent the term "Karen" as a descriptor either. And it's quite possible someone else has written a story long before me using that exact description THE Karen and I've never seen it.

But let's say the author in question DID see MY Karen story first and directly lifted the term THE Karen from me.

Am I bothered by it? No. IF my story served as inspiration for his, great.

Now if he stole more specific dialog or plot points from my story, or his Karen mirrored mine, then yes, I'd have an issue with it.

There's a fine line between inspiration and outright thievery.

And I'm willing to bet we've all blurred that line from time to time.

 

[Athalia]

Maybe you got the idea from another story, maybe some lines stuck in your head. Whatever. Look how many times people use Shakespeare.

And how many time Shakespeare himself used plots from other sources. And nobody, but nobody could mistake his versions for theirs. Most of them, in fact, are long forgotten.