Opinion: Story Length

[LAHomedog]

The word count is visible on the right side of the first page of every story.

Oh!! I have never noticed that box before. Thank you. Sheeesh! Who knew?!

 

[SamScribble]

So I know the response to this question will be subjective but I am wondering with, the “recent” addition of the word count up front on stories, what would be the ideal word count for you to want to read the story?

Personally, I like short stories. And I like them well crafted. My real-life book shelves are full of 'thin' books. Also, when I'm reading for entertainment, I tend to read slowly. The better the writing, the slower I read. However, my observation would be that most Lit readers have a preference for quantity over quality. Even though they are 'reading for free', I suspect that most Lit readers feel short changed with any fewer than about 15,000 words. And I short change them at every opportunity.

 

[SimonDoom]

So, I am learning. But, I need other options, if I'm doing this for ME.

OK. Just take your time. Do some research and figure out what makes sense for your own goals.

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>
You get feedback here on Lit for writing extremely good stories or supremely bad ones. If you're in the middle of the great bell curve, then Lit can be a very quiet place. You just gotta know where on the bell curve you sit. That's all we're saying.
<snip>

Whether this statement is truly factual or not, I don't know. I do know that 75% of my stories are, according to ratings, "Hot" (4.5+ with 10+ votes). But. IMHO, if you're here for 'feedback,' you're at the wrong place.

By 'feedback,' I mean reasoned criticism (complimentary or constructively negative), it isn't going to happen for most of us. So, I guess I fall in the middle of the bell curve, above to be believed. Most - and I mean the vast bulk of readers - are here for enjoyment, not to be critics nor analysts.

I have a few comments that indicate there are people who've enjoyed my stories so I take what scant crumbs I can get. I'm clearly not in the top rank that attracts the cognoscenti, nor am I a gutter dweller. Or so it would all seem. I do not have a single story with more than 8 (yeah, eight) comments. I've only ever received two direct feedback messages in three years.

That's my point. I am here trying to find out how the site works, and trying to find out how best to use it for me.

Advising a newbie to "Just write more" and "think about Laurel's workload" is counterproductive when I have my own workload and goals.

One thing I have noticed is the day of the week a story posts in the "New" area might have an impact on the readership. Of my first three chapters, Ch1 posted on a Saturday, and got 3,400 views. Ch2 and 3 posted on the following Monday and Tuesday and only got 1,600 and 1,200 readers. But, I have NO influence on when they post, Those stories posted within 2-3 days of when I clicked Publish. My latest Ch7 has been waiting for 7 days (should post tomorrow, since the CH it replaces just disappeared).

So, I am learning. But, I need other options, if I'm doing this for ME.

Um, my most viewed story has not quite 40,000 views, and only a third of my (total of 38) stories have 10,000+ views. So again, I'm just a middling contributor here. Is THAT why I don't get feedback? I don't think it's directly the case, some of my least commented on stories are high on (for me) view counts. Most of my comments are "enjoyed this" or one taking me to task for using "prostrate" where I meant "prostate" (that reader was VERY upset about that typo, I mean, near livid.)

But there's another factor. It's well known around here that ALL series see drop-offs in views for subsequent chapters. I've had exactly that happen across multiple series, regardless of day of week they're posted. Readers see "Ch 02" and if they didn't read "Ch 01", they'll just bypass it unless they feel like going back and finding Ch. 01.

This has been discussed on this forum regularly.

You get NO feedback if no one reads it.

Now, I could post to that "cesspool" you refer to as the LW category. I know I can get twice the readership there as the EC category. But, I also know thirty anons there will 1-bomb it, while I gain 5 or 6 who love it and follow me, and another dozen who rate it a 5.

So.... this is what I'm learning and trying. Just because a story received NO feedback, but rated as 4.2 with only 1,200 reads doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad story. It just means this site and the day of the week it posted as New didn't meet my needs.

Do I throw away my longer term concept and think about another? I'll think about it.

I make no comment on whether you should pull and rework your story or do something new.

But I do want to comment around "Laurel's workload." I've seen this elsewhere, around submitting "doc" files (Word formatted files, instead of typing or pasting the text into the submission box.) I almost always use "doc" files and in one thread someone claimed "Laurel has to manually copy those to html for posting" or somesuch. Oh, holy crap. The site advertises you can submit Word "doc" files, and Word itself can directly output html. If Literotica can't afford a licensed copy of Word to do the conversion, there are a squillion other such tools. I've seen no worse issues with formatting as you might if you try to manually use html and paste into the submission box. Mess up an html tag and... well, fun ensues. The site has its own, specific CSS and format, so they're converting every submission.

I've also edited a number of my posted stories. Never pulled and combined, but the site offers instructions on how to edit and delete submissions. So... they're prepared to do that. I see no reason to not take them up on it. Now, at the pace I can write stories, I'll not be doing much of that. So, yeah, it could get abusive, but c'mon, how many of us will be doing multiple daily submissions and requests for edits or deletes? You just have to accept the time lag. My last two edits took almost ten days to get posted... Oh well. Take that into account. It's the way it is.

I've jabbered enough here. I'll just reiterate, if your primary, number one, unbending goal is direct and regular considered feedback, you're at the wrong place. But, I've been in writer's groups and attended workshops looking for that, and you're hoping you can get what you can get. But within some bounds, those might offer more hope on that front (i.e., short works, 1000-2000 words, and such.)

I download my stats now and again and can see that my catalog does steadily add views, just not tens of thousands a day or even in a week, and votes and favorites now and again. If you can't do that and take that as 'feedback,' yes, you might want to look elsewhere.

 

[KeithD]

Oh!! I have never noticed that box before. Thank you. Sheeesh! Who knew?!

I think you haven't noticed it because it's a fairly new "thing."

 

[Lifestyle66]

...
But there's another factor. It's well known around here that ALL series see drop-offs in views for subsequent chapters. I've had exactly that happen across multiple series, regardless of day of week they're posted. Readers see "Ch 02" and if they didn't read "Ch 01", they'll just bypass it unless they feel like going back and finding Ch. 01.

...
But I do want to comment around "Laurel's workload."

I've also edited a number of my posted stories. Never pulled and combined, but the site offers instructions on how to edit and delete submissions. So... they're prepared to do that. I see no reason to not take them up on it. Now, at the pace I can write stories, I'll not be doing much of that. So, yeah, it could get abusive, but c'mon, how many of us will be doing multiple daily submissions and requests for edits or deletes? You just have to accept the time lag. My last two edits took almost ten days to get posted... Oh well. Take that into account. It's the way it is.

...I'll just reiterate, if your primary, number one, unbending goal is direct and regular considered feedback, you're at the wrong place. ...

Thanks for the reasoned response.

This thread was started by someone asking about story length and combining/replacing other works, for the purpose of getting the most out of the site.

Yes, I have done so, based on two editors feedback (months ago). And I don't upload docs, but paste it into the submission box, so I can see quickly what the HTML tags do.

While the stats and comments are not the sole number one reason for being here, this is NOT my job and it is just a new hobby. As a geek trying to learn to write and reviewing these forum suggestions, it is counterproductive when some dip chimes in with "I haven't read your stuff, but it must suck so write something else." As I said elsewhere, "I'll think about it." After all, it is just a hobby.

 

[8letters]

One thing I have noticed is the day of the week a story posts in the "New" area might have an impact on the readership. Of my first three chapters, Ch1 posted on a Saturday, and got 3,400 views. Ch2 and 3 posted on the following Monday and Tuesday and only got 1,600 and 1,200 readers. But, I have NO influence on when they post, Those stories posted within 2-3 days of when I clicked Publish. My latest Ch7 has been waiting for 7 days (should post tomorrow, since the CH it replaces just disappeared).

So, I am learning. But, I need other options, if I'm doing this for ME.

Actually, Monday is the best day of the week to publish a story. Saturday is a good day. If you publish a series, you'll always see a big drop off in views from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Actually, Monday is the best day of the week to publish a story. Saturday is a good day. If you publish a series, you'll always see a big drop off in views from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2.

Chapter 1 got 3,400 views publishing on a Saturday.
Chapter 2 got 1,600 views starting on Monday
Chapter 3 got 1,200 starting Tuesday
Chapter 4 (Rewrite with deletion of a previous work) got 3,300 views on the Next Saturday

So, I see a different pattern than you're suggesting.

 

[windar]

Chapter 1 got 3,400 views publishing on a Saturday.
Chapter 2 got 1,600 views starting on Monday
Chapter 3 got 1,200 starting Tuesday
Chapter 4 (Rewrite with deletion of a previous work) got 3,300 views on the Next Saturday

So, I see a different pattern than you're suggesting.

If I may, it seems to me that you aren't having a very good time writing. The focus on views and ratings and categories and days of the week is missing the point. If you enjoy writing, then write what you want to write and, when it's done, post it, even it appears on Christmas Day. If you are being made miserable, then stop.

Or try another site. I would suggest a smaller more niche one where your stories will not be one of 50-100 appearing every day. I can see where that would be disheartening to someone starting out. The story I'm posting here now actually got more views and 50x more comments on a smaller site than it's getting here because there were only 3-4 other stories running concurrently, so people noticed it and responded.

 

[Lifestyle66]

If I may, it seems to me that you aren't having a very good time writing. The focus on views and ratings and categories and days of the week is missing the point. If you enjoy writing, then write what you want to write and, when it's done, post it, even it appears on Christmas Day. If you are being made miserable, then stop.

Or try another site. I would suggest a smaller more niche one where your stories will not be one of 50-100 appearing every day. I can see where that would be disheartening to someone starting out. The story I'm posting here now actually got more views and 50x more comments on a smaller site than it's getting here because there were only 3-4 other stories running concurrently, so people noticed it and responded.

I enjoy writing my own stories and after years of reading stories on this site, I thought I'd try posting to see how they'd do.

It's been a learning experience. And stats such as views, ratings, etc strike a tone in my geek mind as: "Hmmm, I wonder if there are other factors driving it."

And I am spending more time now, looking for other niche sites. The haters on here jump quickly,, with my story today already getting two 1's and a nasty comment within the first few hours (but one added it to their favorites).

I have to wonder about the IQ of someone who clicks on a story which is clearly titled "threesomes" and "wife enjoying friends with benefits" in the description. Are they indeed reading challenged, and just go immediately to the end to click a 1 star and comment "Disgusting whore."?

 

[Bramblethorn]

You get NO feedback if no one reads it.

On the contrary, there are commenters out there who are very happy to flame stories they haven't read ;-)

 

[SimonDoom]

Chapter 1 got 3,400 views publishing on a Saturday.
Chapter 2 got 1,600 views starting on Monday
Chapter 3 got 1,200 starting Tuesday
Chapter 4 (Rewrite with deletion of a previous work) got 3,300 views on the Next Saturday

So, I see a different pattern than you're suggesting.

I can't tell what you are referring to.

Your Lifestyle Ch.: 6 Part Series perfectly illustrates what 8Letters is saying.

Each successive chapter receives fewer views than the previous one, because of reader attrition, which is a common phenomenon.

Then views jump with Chapter 5. Why? Because you posted it to Loving Wives rather than Erotic Couplings, and Loving Wives gets far more views than Erotic Couplings. It's the most-viewed story category, AFTER Incest/Taboo and Illustrated. Erotic Couplings tends to get relatively few views.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I can't tell what you are referring to.

Your Lifestyle Ch.: 6 Part Series perfectly illustrates what 8Letters is saying.

Each successive chapter receives fewer views than the previous one, because of reader attrition, which is a common phenomenon.

Then views jump with Chapter 5. Why? Because you posted it to Loving Wives rather than Erotic Couplings, and Loving Wives gets far more views than Erotic Couplings. It's the most-viewed story category, AFTER Incest/Taboo and Illustrated. Erotic Couplings tends to get relatively few views.

That's why I only referred to those first 4 chapters comparing apples to apples with the same category. And the views jumped with Ch4 in the same category. This contradicts what others have claimed that views drop off just due to later chapter numbers. There are other factors involved, and I'm suggesting it's the day of week as one such factor.

I deliberately chose different categories for 5 and 6 (LW in particular due to knowing how they react) to see the difference.