Oklahoma standoff on NG vaccinations

[Comshaw]

I don't see why everyone is getting all spun up about this. When National Guard troops are not activated to federal service, they are under the command of the governor of the state they serve in. While I don't agree with it the Oklahoma governor has every right to issue that order.

I can understand the feds point of view though. If they were needed and activated, doing the vaccinations after activation would take a lot of time, time they may not have depending on the situation at hand.

There is a very simple and legal solution to the problem. Activate every Guardsman in Oklahoma to federal service long enough to vaccinate them, then deactivate them. The law followed and they will be ready to be called up in a hurry if needed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/standoff-over-vaccines-between-oklahoma-130241156.html

Comshaw

 

[CornusKousa]

Because the governor said no.

The end.

 

[jaF0]

There is a very simple and legal solution to the problem. Activate every Guardsman in Oklahoma to federal service long enough to vaccinate them, then deactivate them. The law followed and they will be ready to be called up in a hurry if needed.

But on a rotating basis. Do it a group at a time in numbers that can be done in a short time span. Not enough for any of them to get additional VA time.

 

[Dribble]

I don't see why everyone is getting all spun up about this. When National Guard troops are not activated to federal service, they are under the command of the governor of the state they serve in. While I don't agree with it the Oklahoma governor has every right to issue that order.

I can understand the feds point of view though. If they were needed and activated, doing the vaccinations after activation would take a lot of time, time they may not have depending on the situation at hand.

There is a very simple and legal solution to the problem. Activate every Guardsman in Oklahoma to federal service long enough to vaccinate them, then deactivate them. The law followed and they will be ready to be called up in a hurry if needed.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/standoff-over-vaccines-between-oklahoma-130241156.html

Comshaw

All comes down to what their role is in society? If a State doesn't want their National Guard vaccinated...cool. But why should the Federal Govt send money to that State? I am done coddling these States. Next time a tornado rips through Oklahoma...don't ask for anything from the Federal Govt. They shouldn't get anything.

 

[CornusKousa]

All comes down to what their role is in society? If a State doesn't want their National Guard vaccinated...cool. But why should the Federal Govt send money to that State? I am done coddling these States. Next time a tornado rips through Oklahoma...don't ask for anything from the Federal Govt. They shouldn't get anything.

Cool, those states get to stop sending the federal government money.

EVERYONE WINS!!!

 

[Comshaw]

All comes down to what their role is in society? If a State doesn't want their National Guard vaccinated...cool. But why should the Federal Govt send money to that State? I am done coddling these States. Next time a tornado rips through Oklahoma...don't ask for anything from the Federal Govt. They shouldn't get anything.

Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as that. Over the last 20 years the National Guard has become more and more relied upon to flesh out our active forces. In 2005 of the troops engaged in Iraq, 43 percent were National Guard/Reserves, in Afghanistan it was 55%.

They became close to half of those fighting in those countries. That is why they need to be vaccinated and ready to go if they are called on again.

Comshaw

 

[CornusKousa]

Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as that. Over the last 20 years the National Guard has become more and more relied upon to flesh out our active forces. In 2005 of the troops engaged in Iraq, 43 percent were National Guard/Reserves, in Afghanistan it was 55%.

They became close to half of those fighting in those countries. That is why they need to be vaccinated and ready to go if they are called on again.

Comshaw

Pre-deployment medical processing is a thing.... so are the standard medical check-ups they get according to SOP.

Even in high readiness, (deployable to anywhere in the world in 18 hrs) units do it in the hangar before they grab their gear and get on the planes.

If Nasty Girl thinks it's necessary, they'll do it.

The only readiness issue the US military has right now is combat effectiveness.

Can't fight for shit anymore though, that's what happens when you drop standards for equity outcome... so everyone gets a trophy.

 

[pecksniff]

Because the governor said no.

The end.

Any state's NG can be brought under federal command at any time.

 

[pecksniff]

Cool, those states get to stop sending the federal government money.

EVERYONE WINS!!!

The state as a state, maybe, but its resident taxpayers don't.

 

[HisArpy]

Any state's NG can be brought under federal command at any time.

Sure.


But look at the optics of doing it just so you can FORCE the Colorado NG to be vaxxed against their will.

And, of course you're doing it to people who are personally invested in saying "no" to your vax mandate, who are trained, and who are armed equally or better than the folks you're going to send to "make them obey."

The foolishness in doing that would be epic.

 

[jaF0]

While I don't agree with it the Oklahoma governor has every right to issue that order.

But look at the optics of doing it just so you can FORCE the Colorado NG to be vaxxed against their will.

Blink -- blink


Does somebody not understand the difference between Oklehomey and Colorady?

 

[HisArpy]

Blink -- blink


Does somebody not understand the difference between Oklehomey and Colorady?

Sorry, I thought it was Colorado's NG in the spotlight. My mistake but it doesn't take away from the point.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It's always "about teh optics" with the whackadoodle right.

 

[Paul_Chance]

10 U.S. Code § 12406 covers the calling up of the national guard of any state. The orders must be issued through the Governor (the national guard, though it is tightly coordinated with the federal authorities, is still an independent entity - the Governor of any state can call them up without direction from the federal authorities OR at the request of the federal authorities (which then places them in the federal chain of command). A Governor could refuse (though it rarely happens given the financial leverage the federal authorities hold over them).

10 U.S. Code § 12406 outlines the circumstances under which they can be called up.

"Whenever—
(1)the United States, or any of the Commonwealths or possessions, is invaded or is in danger of invasion by a foreign nation;
(2)there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States; or
(3)the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States;
the President may call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard of any State in such numbers as he considers necessary to repel the invasion, suppress the rebellion, or execute those laws. Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States or, in the case of the District of Columbia, through the commanding general of the National Guard of the District of Columbia."

Notice that "to force them to be vaccinated" is not in the list.

When you're called up, they review your medical records and update your vaccinations in a cattle call. (That's how I got vaccinated for Anthrax and Dengue Fever years ago.) It's just part of your processing and takes only as long as the size of the unit called up.

No national guard units are part of the rapid deployment forces, though there area specific reserve units, they tend to be highly specialized units that are part of the ready reserves (not the national guard) and they're used to backfill the deployed troops (or eventually rotate them out).

Sometimes highly skilled individuals are specifically called up to fill out the ranks of the units to be deployed, though that's rare. In my experience it was generally only done to pilots and air-crews and it was done under the legal authorities of the reserve unit, not the guard units. (Though there is often a great overlap in personal, not every member of the guard is a member of the reserve and not every reserve member is a member of the guard.)

 

[pecksniff]

Sure.


But look at the optics of doing it just so you can FORCE the Colorado NG to be vaxxed against their will.

No different from WRT the Army.

 

[Comshaw]

Sure.


But look at the optics of doing it just so you can FORCE the Colorado NG to be vaxxed against their will.

And, of course you're doing it to people who are personally invested in saying "no" to your vax mandate, who are trained, and who are armed equally or better than the folks you're going to send to "make them obey."

The foolishness in doing that would be epic.

Foolish? Not at all. Combat readiness in light of what's going on right now with China is an imperative. If it requires an activation of all the NG troops in that state to do so, let it be so.

As far as "..people who are personally invested in saying "no" to your vax mandate..." they signed a contract. They agreed to take orders when they did, including being vaccinated. It isn't any different from taking all those other vaccinations they have already received for a myriad of other diseases. If they decide not to, decide to ignore orders, put their ass in the stockade to change their minds, just like anyone else that breaks regulations. Done deal.


Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

10 U.S. Code § 12406 covers the calling up of the national guard of any state. The orders must be issued through the Governor (the national guard, though it is tightly coordinated with the federal authorities, is still an independent entity - the Governor of any state can call them up without direction from the federal authorities OR at the request of the federal authorities (which then places them in the federal chain of command). A Governor could refuse (though it rarely happens given the financial leverage the federal authorities hold over them).

10 U.S. Code § 12406 outlines the circumstances under which they can be called up.

"Whenever—
(1)the United States, or any of the Commonwealths or possessions, is invaded or is in danger of invasion by a foreign nation;
(2)there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States; or
(3)the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States;
the President may call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard of any State in such numbers as he considers necessary to repel the invasion, suppress the rebellion, or execute those laws. Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States or, in the case of the District of Columbia, through the commanding general of the National Guard of the District of Columbia."

Notice that "to force them to be vaccinated" is not in the list.

When you're called up, they review your medical records and update your vaccinations in a cattle call. (That's how I got vaccinated for Anthrax and Dengue Fever years ago.) It's just part of your processing and takes only as long as the size of the unit called up.

No national guard units are part of the rapid deployment forces, though there area specific reserve units, they tend to be highly specialized units that are part of the ready reserves (not the national guard) and they're used to backfill the deployed troops (or eventually rotate them out).

Sometimes highly skilled individuals are specifically called up to fill out the ranks of the units to be deployed, though that's rare. In my experience it was generally only done to pilots and air-crews and it was done under the legal authorities of the reserve unit, not the guard units. (Though there is often a great overlap in personal, not every member of the guard is a member of the reserve and not every reserve member is a member of the guard.)

So all those National Guard troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (that comprised 45% of the forces in those countries), were all 'highly skilled individuals are specifically called up to fill out the ranks of the units to be deployed".

Aw...no.

One of the article below is about National Guard units on alert for deployment as replacement forces for units on deployment. There are many more articles out there that show the National Guard was an integral part of the military (45% of the forces deployed as noted above)and not just a few who filled in here and there.

If you'll read the US code you posted, you'll notice the president can call them up if, "...there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States..."

I'd say that covers this situation. You don't need a specific "I'm, not taking the vaccine" line in the code to cover refusal to follow military direction by a member of the military. And no matter what excuse is used, the National Guard makes up a huge part of our available military personnel and as such should be as prepared as any other arm of the military. To be clear, you don't have to have an ARMED rebellion to have it be a rebellion. A refusal to follow the law is a rebellion as much as an armed force trying to take over is.

Additionally, I realize they do review medical records and update them, but requiring a majority of those called up to be vaccinated would cause a huge time delay. I never claimed and didn't insinuate that any of those NG personnel were part of the rapid deployment force. The raid deployment force is a "drop what you're doing and go now operation". That is a specific and special section of the military.

However, since the Guard comprises such a large part of our military, and if is needed in a combat role again, all of them should be as ready as possible to do so to make it as rapid a deployment as can be accomplished. That's combat readiness and what I meant by using that term.


https://www.military.com/national-guard-birthday/national-guard-service-in-the-war-on-terror.html

Comshaw

 

[JohnnySavage]

We have a NG detachment... regiment... club... I don't know what they are called. They have bigger problems than vaccines (and we are the least vaccinated state in the union!! Yay us). Not a one of them have ever turned down a fried chicken dinner. Does the NG not have a fat-boy program?

 

[CornusKousa]

The state as a state, maybe, but its resident taxpayers don't.

Absolutely they do and should.

If they aren't getting a share in the benefits, they don't have to pay for them. Fuck you.

 

[Rightguide]

Any state's NG can be brought under federal command at any time.

Only under certain circumstances.

 

[CornusKousa]

We have a NG detachment... regiment... club... I don't know what they are called. They have bigger problems than vaccines (and we are the least vaccinated state in the union!! Yay us). Not a one of them have ever turned down a fried chicken dinner. Does the NG not have a fat-boy program?

Fat acceptance and standard dropping so EVERYONE gets a trophy is PROGRESS..... fat shaming is just like racism, don't be a Nazi.

High standards, how are women supposed to make it into special ops units if they aren't given massive handicaps??? Don't be a misogynist.... no standards are better than low standards. #PROGRESS

 

[JohnnySavage]

When half the youngsters can't serve because they are too damn fat, I'll fat shame.

I was 8 active and 12 reserves. I had to stay lean and mean. I guess the NG is allowed to be fatties though because they are usually state-controlled. Or else West Virginia gets a pass because in addition to being the lowest vaccinated state, we are also the fattest!

I'll survive the zombies because all my neighbors are too fat to run.

 

[Paul_Chance]

All the guard units deployed (and they gave great service to their country) did so under Title 10 (1) and (3) for the gulf wars, per congressional and presidential authorization.

Title 10 (2) (the rebellion clause) can't be invoked because there is no actual rebellion going on. There is just disagreement. In order to use the clause it would have to be both congress and the executive declaring a rebellion.

But, even then, it was done in full cooperation with the governors of the respective states, after negotiations.

I doubt you'd find a court that would agree with the exigent circumstances to order them to duty under Title 10 just to vaccinate them. Legally, you'd have the whole problem of unvaccinated soldiers effectively pursuing objective throughout the first full year of pandemic. COVID-19 just isn't serious enough.

 

[Dribble]

Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as that. Over the last 20 years the National Guard has become more and more relied upon to flesh out our active forces. In 2005 of the troops engaged in Iraq, 43 percent were National Guard/Reserves, in Afghanistan it was 55%.

They became close to half of those fighting in those countries. That is why they need to be vaccinated and ready to go if they are called on again.

Comshaw

I know what you are saying. Either their job is to do that...or it isn't. If it is...then the Governor has no say. This is what I meant by defining what their role in society is. As it stands...they are called the "National" Guard for a reason and not an individual State's Guard

 

[JohnnySavage]

We have West Virginia National Guard and Army National Guard. No idea what the difference is.