Reception for Bad/Twist Endings

[SimonDoom]

I'm curious about the experiences others have with feedback for stories that have bad endings or twist endings.

My experience is that I get more negative feedback than I normally do. My story "Penis Fish," for example, is erotic, if bizarre and twisted, for most of the story, until the ending, when it becomes horrific (I did put it in "Erotic Horror," so that should have tipped it off). Some readers hated the ending. I got one such comment this morning.

I had some similar kinds of comments for the other two stories I wrote with twist or negative endings.

My perception is that while Lit readers are a diverse bunch, in general, there's a strong preference for the "Happily Ever After" ending.

Has anybody here had an experience where they wrote a story with either a twist or a really negative ending but they felt like they nailed it with the readers?

 

[AlinaX]

Everyone loves a happy ending, especially if it involves humiliation and orgasms...

But my Vale series is full of twists that kept readers entertained for three chapters and seemed to completely alienate them for the last three.

 

[rescatooor]

I think there is the question of whether the reader felt "mislead" or "cheated". On the other hand, if you have a story where the character is already at the bottom as the story starts, there probably is a wish that they will somehow be redeeemed at the end. That things are a little less bleak.

I have a couple of stories where the characters start at the rock bottom and then they start digging or sometimes they just stay where they are. No real improvement: just snaps of people being miserable. Those stories have not done so well for me.

Marnahthul was pretty obviously a horror story where a happy ending was unlikely. It did okay after all the sweeps. It might even be deemed a success considering the circumstances.

I think the issue is that sometimes people here are very willing to ignore the red flags. Actually not just in here: it's been seen through-out literature and film history that sometimes people kind of mistake a bad ending for a happy one. Prime, well-known recent example: Ari Aster's Midsommar. In literature I always refer to Enchanted April by Elizabeth von Arnim. Sure we have our Austenesque pairing of couples but those marriages are really unsustainable and probably will turn abusive as soon as the honeymoon is over. But if you look at Goodreads people just think it's a cute little romance set in Italy.

 

[PoisonPen33]

My original version of "Come As You Are" ended with a character making peace with his bully while getting the girl, but his bully walked away unscathed and went on to continued success.

I was going for two vibes - "good things happen to bad people" and "not every ending is completely happy." But I didn't pull it off, and the biggest criticism I received was normally along the lines of "Danny didn't get what's coming to him." I foreshadowed something calamitous happening to him but ended up just putting a stumbling block down instead of pulling the trigger.

The lesson I learned - if you build up a villain, their fall has to be equally as long.

 

[RichardKimble]

I think there is the question of whether the reader felt "mislead" or "cheated". On the other hand, if you have a story where the character is already at the bottom as the story starts, there probably is a wish that they will somehow be redeeemed at the end. That things are a little less bleak.

I have a couple of stories where the characters start at the rock bottom and then they start digging or sometimes they just stay where they are. No real improvement: just snaps of people being miserable. Those stories have not done so well for me.

Marnahthul was pretty obviously a horror story where a happy ending was unlikely. It did okay after all the sweeps. It might even be deemed a success considering the circumstances.

I think the issue is that sometimes people here are very willing to ignore the red flags. Actually not just in here: it's been seen through-out literature and film history that sometimes people kind of mistake a bad ending for a happy one. Prime, well-known recent example: Ari Aster's Midsommar. In literature I always refer to Enchanted April by Elizabeth von Arnim. Sure we have our Austenesque pairing of couples but those marriages are really unsustainable and probably will turn abusive as soon as the honeymoon is over. But if you look at Goodreads people just think it's a cute little romance set in Italy.

I agree with all of what you say, especially the willingness of readers to ignore red flags. I think here on Lit, the formulaic progression of a story arc is especially common and expected.

I've lurked here for almost two decades but just started writing recently. I started writing on Lit recently because I finally decided to stop criticizing and write stories that would be less predictable, at least those in categories I had frequented. Even in cases where there have been twists, I felt the foreshadowing was just over the top as well. Granted, they do well by the metrics.

I've not had success yet in my experience, as I likely pushed the envelope too far in the reader's minds with my first published series. It didn't help that elements set up to be a BTB type of story and veered away, so that inflamed a certain very vocal minority of readers. Nonetheless, I think I did confirm that folks generally don't like big narrative twists in their explicit stories. They definitely want a certain type of formulaic ending, and if they don't mostly get it, the twists are relatively unwelcome. Interestingly, I'm encouraged to write more after the mixed response. I guess I have a bit of an Ari Aster penchant.

Cheers,
RichardK

 

[Lifestyle66]

...Has anybody here had an experience where they wrote a story with either a twist or a really negative ending but they felt like they nailed it with the readers?

That's an interesting question. What are you trying to "nail with the reader"?

If you have a bad ending and nail that bad feeling into the mind of your reader, what type of comments or ratings would you expect from that nailed down mind?

Something like "Wow, that was F-ed up and really depressed me! Here's a 5."

 

[SimonDoom]

That's an interesting question. What are you trying to "nail with the reader"?

If you have a bad ending and nail that bad feeling into the mind of your reader, what type of comments or ratings would you expect from that nailed down mind?

Well, I can speak for myself. I've always enjoyed twist endings. I can enjoy bad endings. I think about O Henry stories, or episodes of The Twilight Zone. There's something fun about a story that completely throws you at the end, where you think everything is going to be OK, and suddenly it's not.

I think of erotica as having a natural fellowship with the subversive. From my perspective, subversive endings fit fine with erotica. But apparently many readers don't share that view, and they want endings that are neat and tidy and fit perfectly with what came before -- or, at least, with their expectations of what ought to come.

 

[NotWise]

My experience is that your story's ending is important to the readers. I'm not sure what you have in mind for "bad" endings, but if the ending doesn't leave the reader satisfied, then they're likely to let you know.

My most highly-rated stories have carefully set up, sentimental endings. My lowest-rated stories usually have some reason for the low rating other than the ending, but scattered among them are stories where the ending was a failure.

For me, the endings that turned out the worst (by my judgement) were: A pulled erotic punch, the end of a mom-son relationship, a twist to revenge, a long wind down to a non-erotic ending, and the girl ends up with the wrong guy.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Well, I can speak for myself. I've always enjoyed twist endings. I can enjoy bad endings. I think about O Henry stories, or episodes of The Twilight Zone. There's something fun about a story that completely throws you at the end, where you think everything is going to be OK, and suddenly it's not.

OK. I can relate to the Twilight Zone example. So, Erotic Horror stories may draw an audience who appreciates such twisted endings.

I was thinking of the LW category, where we know swingers and extra marital affairs should be placed. But that audience will read "my wife fucked another guy, and surprise, I enjoyed watching her do it" , and those readers will be down to hitting you with thirty 1's. The LW readers want you to burn her for it.

 

[windar]

Hollywood vs Indy/Foreign Movies

Hollywood blockbusters are more or less required to have happy endings, whereas Indy and Foreign films don't necessarily. Obviously, one has much bigger box office, but that doesn't make them better. Certainly among literature regarded as "great", unhappy endings, usually death, tend to predominate.

I'm new to here, but on other sites where I have published, some people have expressed disappointment at unhappy or surprize endings, but then they gave the stories 5 stars anyway, so perhaps they weren't all that turned off.

 

[rescatooor]

That's an interesting question. What are you trying to "nail with the reader"?

If you have a bad ending and nail that bad feeling into the mind of your reader, what type of comments or ratings would you expect from that nailed down mind?

Something like "Wow, that was F-ed up and really depressed me! Here's a 5."

There is a genre of literature called misery lit. It is quite popular these days.

I personally like it when I don't know where a story is going. Maybe that is a bit rare. Don't really care for Shyamalan-type twists that are just meant to shock you, but I avoid typical genre literature.

There have been a few stories where the "crime" that is investigated at the beginning turns into a larger metaphor and description of conflict that is without resolution, hence why the "murderer" is never really discovered. It's unexpected, possibly infuriating but I love it. The way the story subverted genre expectations turned the book into something of a classic. People get bored of the same old. A lot of people may not be at that stage at the very moment the story gets published, but they remember it for being different and they might begin to think of it quite fondly.

 

[Lifestyle66]

There is a genre of literature called misery lit. It is quite popular these days.

... People get bored of the same old. A lot of people may not be at that stage at the very moment the story gets published, but they remember it for being different and they might begin to think of it quite fondly.

I can relate to wanting to read different things. But, reading misery stories strikes me as sad.

I read to learn and appreciate new things, experiences through the eyes of others. And I like to come away with feeling better about the world. But, if I read misery stories, it would be like surrounding myself with depressed friends. Their depression would take me down, too, to view the world as a dark and miserable place. It's reinforcing.

So, your observation that misery lit is quite popular these days is insightful.

 

[rescatooor]

I can relate to wanting to read different things. But, reading misery stories strikes me as sad.

I read to learn and appreciate new things, experiences through the eyes of others. And I like to come away with feeling better about the world. But, if I read misery stories, it would be like surrounding myself with depressed friends. Their depression would take me down, too, to view the world as a dark and miserable place. It's reinforcing.

So, your observation that misery lit is quite popular these days is insightful.

I admit I don't understand the genre. I think the books I have heard about appear to be so tragic that they hinge on parody. I can understand things going downhill for a character, but things are usually so bad to begin with for these characters that it's weird they're not dead already.

The books have no happy endings and there's a perverse requirement that most stories are at least based on true stories. It possibly makes these books kind of political. They show the worst in society, and stand as testament that something needs to change. You could easily use them for some virtue signalling: look how terrible the world is, but do not hold me accountable.

On the other hand, if these stories are real and they end up making the authors millionaires, there is a bit of a happy end to even the bleakest of narratives. It kind of aligns with the American dream. If you work hard, you might just live long enough to taste success.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well, yes, yes I have. Everyone liked my Just Another Day story, right up to the end.

Take a peek at the comments. The story is kind of Hitchcockian.

 

[NotWise]

I admit I don't understand the genre. I think the books I have heard about appear to be so tragic that they hinge on parody. I can understand things going downhill for a character, but things are usually so bad to begin with for these characters that it's weird they're not dead already.

The books have no happy endings and there's a perverse requirement that most stories are at least based on true stories. It possibly makes these books kind of political. They show the worst in society, and stand as testament that something needs to change. You could easily use them for some virtue signalling: look how terrible the world is, but do not hold me accountable.

On the other hand, if these stories are real and they end up making the authors millionaires, there is a bit of a happy end to even the bleakest of narratives. It kind of aligns with the American dream. If you work hard, you might just live long enough to taste success.

This doesn't seem particularly new or only recently popular. I'm not sure the Existentialists ever wrote anything but misery. "Pandora's Box" (1929) was the most depressing movie I ever saw.

 

[rescatooor]

This doesn't seem particularly new or only recently popular. I'm not sure the Existentialists ever wrote anything but misery. "Pandora's Box" (1929) was the most depressing movie I ever saw.

I thought of Vittorio De Seca's Ladri di Biciclette. Post-war cynicism. One could speak of De Sade's works too, I suppose, but I think there's a bit of a difference to the works to day because now it feels like misery olympics. You might disagree.

Still, it is sort of new that there needs to be a genre for it. You can walk up to a book store and they might have a bookcase just for misery lit (or sometimes they straight up call it misery porn).

 

[KeithD]

I get comments on happy endings (in favor) than others but rarely anything pushy. I usually don't take this into account. I did at the last moment put a happy ending on my next Winter Holidays contest story, but not because I was pushed. Because I decided it fit. I think I naturally try to end Christmas stories HEA.

 

[LoquiSordidaAdMe]

Has anybody here had an experience where they wrote a story with either a twist or a really negative ending but they felt like they nailed it with the readers?

My sci-fi story Time To Breathe has a tragic twist at the end. Most commenters said they didn't see it coming and a few confessed that I made them cry. That's really just the greatest feeling. To be fair, I nerfed the tragedy with an uplifting epilogue. That may have saved me from some hate.

 

[rescatooor]

Regarding literary history there are some books that pull the rug quite deliberately. You have House Behind the Cedars (By C. Chestnut) which reads like a typical romance until the very end.

It's meant to be a punch in the gut. I doubt people at the time didn't take to it kindly but it was a political text. That excused it.

 

[rjordan]

I'm curious about the experiences others have with feedback for stories that have bad endings or twist endings.

Consistently bad reviews for negative endings.
Consistently good reviews for twist endings if they don't just come out of the blue.

Lit readers generally prefer clear HEA endings, I think.

rj

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think of erotica as having a natural fellowship with the subversive. From my perspective, subversive endings fit fine with erotica. But apparently many readers don't share that view, and they want endings that are neat and tidy and fit perfectly with what came before -- or, at least, with their expectations of what ought to come.

It's the difference between dark chocolate and light chocolate, dark-side jazz and lounge; those who want to faff and get off, those who want a bit of melancholia with their erotica.

I have plans to write the death of one of my best heroines, but I'm not brave enough to do that yet. She won't let me, so when the time comes, there'll be drama.

 

[RetroFan]

You will definitely get an adverse reaction if you include something sexual that the title or overall story premise would not suggest. For example, if I wrote a serious Romance story about a World War II GI who after the war falls in love with the widow of one of his platoon, and when it reached the bedroom it immediately and without any warning degenerated into Hucow fetishes, then I don't think the readers would be very impressed.

Likewise, say I wrote a Fetish story called 'Pretty Penny's Period Problems' and it was actually about a girl named Penny who works as a PA in an office and has poor skills in grammar and punctuation, putting full stops - i.e. periods - at the wrong place in correspondence making it look unprofessional rather than her menstrual cycle, which isn't even mentioned in the story. I would cop some negative feedback from readers who clicked on the story wanting to read about girls having their periods, and were most put out that it was not about menstruation at all.

However, the biggest disappointment is when you put a twist in a story and nobody comments at all. I had that experience recently with my Erotic Horror story series 'Crazy Cornelius & the Magic Pills' which had a twist ending at the end of the final chapter, and nobody has left any comments good, bad or indifferent.

 

[lovecraft68]

I took a lot of heat with a trick ending on a mother son story years ago. I won't bore anyone with details, but for me it was simply trying to surprise the reader with a 'things weren't what they seemed' ending and caught a lot of flack...and the parents in the story did too in that way that readers act like these people are real.

I think Simon is right that people do prefer HEA, its part of the escapism, more so these days with all the bad news the networks shove at us 24/7. But I want to add they do not like to be surprised, they don't like different

Look at the April Fools contest. I think its a great premise with a lot of potential. But not many authors enter it, and it does not seem that popular with readers, they want to stroke, not think, they want happy, not strange and they want to know what's coming, not be surprised.

I chalk this up as another example of if you're happy with it, then that's what matters, and even if it takes shit there will be those who like it, and on a story like that a positive comment has always meant more to me like "finally, someone gets it."

 

[Lifestyle66]

... and nobody has left any comments good, bad or indifferent.

Couple that with very few ratings, and you have a "why bother posting" situation.

It's the feedback, good, bad or indifferent saying someone actually cared to read it and at least take some time to click a star or write a line like "This sucks!". That's the difference between writing and posting (on a free site like this), versus just writing for my own entertainment.

 

[SimonDoom]

I chalk this up as another example of if you're happy with it, then that's what matters, and even if it takes shit there will be those who like it, and on a story like that a positive comment has always meant more to me like "finally, someone gets it."

I agree.

Most of the time, my endings are positive. It fits with my general erotic story philosophy: I depict the exploration of kinkiness in a positive way, most of the time. I want to show that it's liberating and empowering. But every once in a while I want to go dark, and I don't really care if some readers don't like it.