Civil War revisited.

[bellisarius]

The following is a well written article that covers most of the high points.

Would America survive a civil war?

The recent revelation that the FBI, the law enforcement agency that is supposed to be the ultimate guarantor of our Constitutional rights, colluded with a news agency to violate an entities Constitutional rights is just another straw on the camel's back.

 

[pecksniff]

It's not going to happen -- at least, not in the shooty-killy sense.

 

[CornusKousa]

It's not going to happen -- at least, not in the shooty-killy sense.

It could.... control freaks gotta control freak.

 

[pecksniff]

It could.... control freaks gotta control freak.

You keep saying war won't be fought like in the past -- but then you come up with an alternative you call "5th generation warfare," which, on examination, is simply politics by ordinary means.

 

[CornusKousa]

You keep saying war won't be fought like in the past --

That's correct, large gatherings of people in open fields where we all line up and gun each other down is not going to happen.

It's not the 1800's anymore.

I'm not sure if you've figured that out yet, but that's not how combat goes down anymore.

but then you come up with an alternative you call "5th generation warfare," which, on examination, is simply politics by ordinary means.

No 5th gen warfare is where we are at now.

And it's politics by unordinary and illegitimate means.... like "mostly peacefully protesting" to get verdicts you want instead of respecting rule of law. Media out there straight up lying to promote such behaviors.

Not shocking you managed to fuck that up as bad as you did..... you are the king of " 2+2=5!!" .

That all said, that doesn't mean we can't slide back to 4th gen, we've come precariously close in very recent history in several major metro areas. .

 

[LukSkyFokker]

The Geek Squad would fuck up the peckerwoods.

 

[pecksniff]

No 5th gen warfare is where we are at now.

And it's politics by unordinary and illegitimate means.... like "mostly peacefully protesting" . . .

That's politics by ordinary means.

 

[CornusKousa]

That's politics by ordinary means.

No, it's not.

Politics by ordinary means is peaceful protesting and representative democracy passing legislation.

When you riot, lie bold faced about it calling it "peaceful protest" and use the threat of said "peaceful protesting" that isn't peaceful protesting at all to force change undermining our democracy and rule of law you're using UNconventional means. You're soft core suburban terrorist.

No outright "2+2=5000!!!" lies from you like this one will change that either.

 

[pecksniff]

That all said, that doesn't mean we can't slide back to 4th gen . . .

"4th generation warfare" is something that has never yet happened anywhere in the modern world, not even in countries in revolution.

 

[pecksniff]

No, it's not.

Politics by ordinary means is peaceful protesting and representative democracy passing legislation.

All the street theater that happened in the 1960s was politics by ordinary means . . . though some participants might have had illusions to the contrary. That sort of thing has been happening periodically in America since before the Revolution.

 

[CornusKousa]

"4th generation warfare" is something that has never yet happened anywhere in the modern world, not even in countries in revolution.

You're just denying the last 60 or so years of history.

Scream "2+2=5!!" some more and I'm sure someone will believe you.... idiots are everywhere.

 

[CornusKousa]

All the street theater that happened in the 1960s was politics by ordinary means . . . though some participants might have had illusions to the contrary. That sort of thing has been happening periodically in America since before the Revolution.

Terrorism isn't politics by ordinary means.

No matter how many times you keep telling that lie.


2+2 does NOT = 5 peck.

 

[bellisarius]

Terrorism isn't politics by ordinary means.

No matter how many times you keep telling that lie.


2+2 does NOT = 5 peck.

I don't believe he understood the article and that being the case he's not going to understand you.

I have never seen the nation so divided and Trump didn't do it. This started back in the Clinton admin. with the left embracing "identity politics." If you're going to start 'tribal warfare' you better damn well have the bigger tribe.

 

[oggbashan]

I don't believe he understood the article and that being the case he's not going to understand you.

I have never seen the nation so divided and Trump didn't do it. This started back in the Clinton admin. with the left embracing "identity politics." If you're going to start 'tribal warfare' you better damn well have the bigger tribe.

And that is what makes 'civil war' unlikely. Both sides are almost equal, but the majority of voters Dem or Repub, wouldn't support any sort of war. The majority of decent Americans, whoever they voted for, would stop the deluded idiots.

 

[colddiesel]

The nearest any major entity has come to civil war recently was the collapse of the Soviet Empire in 1989/90. The 'nation' collapsed from within, but its Federal system of government allowed the various states to establish sovereign independence with very limited actual conflict.

I could see the US breaking up in a not dissimilar way if the current polarization of society continues. Most of the posters on this thread from all parts of the political spectrum are part of the problem not the solution. You all take the easy way out; 'blame the others,' never a thought of working with the others to fix problems.

 

[bellisarius]

And that is what makes 'civil war' unlikely. Both sides are almost equal, but the majority of voters Dem or Repub, wouldn't support any sort of war. The majority of decent Americans, whoever they voted for, would stop the deluded idiots.

No one I know 'supports' the notion of a civil way beyond the antifa/BLM crowd (and the few American Nazi party members that remain) and civil war is precisely their goal. The American left, until recently, was attempting to advance their agenda incrementally and by stealth. And quite frankly they were moderately successful with that tactic. But the Wuhan Flu and the mandates associated with it pulled back the curtain and the nation as a whole doesn't like what they see.

Republicans and democrats are equally divided. Both parties claiming 30 some percent of the voters. But there is this large group in the center that is swinging rightwards. They are being lumped into the group that the left is trying to paint as enemies of the state. That isn't going to end well for the left.

The biggest problem is that the left is evermore reacting to events that don't go their way with violence or threats of violence. They, the left, no longer engage in reasoned debate, they shout down or personally attack anyone and everyone that disagrees with them. You're an observant man and I know that you see that here. Lit is but a microcosm of what is taking place in the nation as a whole.

Those middle grounders are no longer interested in seeing their businesses burned to the ground, their children indoctrinated in the school systems, their livelihoods destroyed in the name of unproven, and often dubious, science, throw in food shortages and rampant inflation and you have a toxic stew indeed.

An electoral sea change is coming and how that plays out is entirely in the hands of the "progressives." If they choose to react with violence AND the elected leaders don't take prompt action to stop them then they are going to be met with violence from those that merely want to get on with their lives.

 

[oggbashan]

But on the Politics Board I see exactly what you described from proponents of the right - attempting to shout down the opposition, threats of violence etc. Jan 6 wasn't the left. Antifa isn't a dem organisation.

What I see is a few dedicated individuals ranting. They aren't typical of most Americans or even most users of Lit. There are a few (and even fewer if you aggregate their alts) who shout louder than anyone, and reasoned argument is met with ascription and insults.

In reality, these keyboard warriors whichever side they support, are just a few anomalies.

 

[JohnnySavage]

But on the Politics Board I see exactly what you described from proponents of the right - attempting to shout down the opposition, threats of violence etc. Jan 6 wasn't the left. Antifa isn't a dem organisation.

What I see is a few dedicated individuals ranting. They aren't typical of most Americans or even most users of Lit. There are a few (and even fewer if you aggregate their alts) who shout louder than anyone, and reasoned argument is met with ascription and insults.

In reality, these keyboard warriors whichever side they support, are just a few anomalies.

You really think the lit right wing is more hateful than the lit left wing???

I see it as just the opposite.

The lit left has no problem calling for the execution of every republican, using racial slurs and making biggoted comments, almost constantly attacking the poster and rarely discussing the issue.

The lit right has a few wackos too, but on balance, I see the lit left as more of the problem. (to the extent there is one. I kind of enjoy the wackiness)

 

[oggbashan]

Only the Republicans, encouraged by Trump and organised by Right-wing organisations conducted an invasion of the Capitol. Democrats have never supported violence against the state.

As I said above, Antifa is NOT Democrat. They are more anarchist. Antifa violence has been condemned by Democrats.

If you can't see right-wing insults and threats of violence on the Politics Board, you are wearing rose-tinted glasses.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Only the Republicans, encouraged by Trump and organised by Right-wing organisations conducted an invasion of the Capitol. Democrats have never supported violence against the state.

As I said above, Antifa is NOT Democrat. They are more anarchist. Antifa violence has been condemned by Democrats.

If you can't see right-wing insults and threats of violence on the Politics Board, you are wearing rose-tinted glasses.

Simply not true. Last summer left wingers placed federal buildings under siege, burned police stations, barricaded entire sections of cities.

Those that attacked the Capitol should be, and are being held accountable. But those on the left are getting yet another free pass to do whatever they want.

As for the board... is it ok for Rob to use asian slurs and even type in stereotypical asian script? What about Dribble calling for the execution of republicans? Just look in any thread and see who starts the personal attacks. It's almost always a leftie.

 

[oggbashan]

Simply not true. Last summer left wingers placed federal buildings under siege, burned police stations, barricaded entire sections of cities.

Those that attacked the Capitol should be, and are being held accountable. But those on the left are getting yet another free pass to do whatever they want.

As for the board... is it ok for Rob to use asian slurs and even type in stereotypical asian script? What about Dribble calling for the execution of republicans? Just look in any thread and see who starts the personal attacks. It's almost always a leftie.

Were they Democrat registered voters? Or Antifa? Which Is NOT supported or funded by the Democrats?

 

[JohnnySavage]

I doubt many of them were registered to vote at all.

Left/right doesn't mean registered Democrat/registered Republican. Less than half the eligible voters actually bother to vote.

 

[oggbashan]

I doubt many of them were registered to vote at all.

Left/right doesn't mean registered Democrat/registered Republican. Less than half the eligible voters actually bother to vote.

Bur those who invaded the Capital were self-professed Republicans wearing Trump MAGA hats.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Bur those who invaded the Capital were self-professed Republicans wearing Trump MAGA hats.

So what. Some were also wearing Nike shoes. Trump has a lot of idiots that follow him. That doesn't mean they actually vote or are even registered to vote. Most have no idea what Trump actually stands for - because he stands for nothing. He's a con artist. BUT - he is also a symbol for those who feel they've been treated unfairly by the system. Pretty much the same as the wackos that took to burning and looting - they feel the system has let them down.

It's not a Republican/Democrat issue. It's an issue of those who feel slighted picking sides.

 

[CornusKousa]

I don't believe he understood the article and that being the case he's not going to understand you.

I have never seen the nation so divided and Trump didn't do it. This started back in the Clinton admin. with the left embracing "identity politics." If you're going to start 'tribal warfare' you better damn well have the bigger tribe.

I suppose not.

No, Trump just triggered it bigly.

Or more actively viscous.

And that is what makes 'civil war' unlikely. Both sides are almost equal, but the majority of voters Dem or Repub, wouldn't support any sort of war. The majority of decent Americans, whoever they voted for, would stop the deluded idiots.

They aren't though. Because the passive folks don't matter, and the left is far less passive.

And not the majority won't stop them.... just like they didn't stop BLM/AntiFa riots and terrorism. In fact if anyone resisted them they become political targets IMMIDIATELY.

The nearest any major entity has come to civil war recently was the collapse of the Soviet Empire in 1989/90. The 'nation' collapsed from within, but its Federal system of government allowed the various states to establish sovereign independence with very limited actual conflict.

True, but we can still see that and the smaller ones, the conditions that cause these events and understand the USA is in a rather precarious spot and in living memory it's at an all time high risk of getting ugly very quickly if anyone does something to set off a conflict.

I could see the US breaking up in a not dissimilar way if the current polarization of society continues. Most of the posters on this thread from all parts of the political spectrum are part of the problem not the solution. You all take the easy way out; 'blame the others,' never a thought of working with the others to fix problems.

Why would I work with people who want to destroy my way of life?? Take all my shit and enslave me??? They can get fucked.

But on the Politics Board I see exactly what you described from proponents of the right - attempting to shout down the opposition, threats of violence etc. Jan 6 wasn't the left. Antifa isn't a dem organisation.

What I see is a few dedicated individuals ranting. They aren't typical of most Americans or even most users of Lit. There are a few (and even fewer if you aggregate their alts) who shout louder than anyone, and reasoned argument is met with ascription and insults.

In reality, these keyboard warriors whichever side they support, are just a few anomalies.

^^ Describes himself....

Only the Republicans, encouraged by Trump and organised by Right-wing organisations conducted an invasion of the Capitol. Democrats have never supported violence against the state.

As I said above, Antifa is NOT Democrat. They are more anarchist. Antifa violence has been condemned by Democrats.

Meanwhile in the real world BLM and AntiFa have attacked the states, the federal government and local people/their shit all unofficially sanctioned by blue mayors/governors/presidents who shill for them endlessly.

In fact if you as a citizen resist their terrorism they make you a political target and try to prosecute you for defending yourself.

If you can't see right-wing insults and threats of violence on the Politics Board, you are wearing rose-tinted glasses.

Says the guy who denies BLM/AntiFa violence and the Democrats who openly support them and their terrorist activities.

Bur those who invaded the Capital were self-professed Republicans wearing Trump MAGA hats.

And those who did BILLIONS in damage destroying tens of thousands of businesses, thousands of homes and killing dozens of people were all Democrat voters and had their terrorism enabled and protected by Democrat politicians.

If you don't understand the street gangs/violence getting political hasn't already become an unofficially sanctioned war... our own miniature and internal little Vee-it-Nam/Afghan-ee-Stan... you're not paying attention.

Why do you think the K. Rittenhouse trial is SO heated??? Why is BLM/AntiFa threatening violent riots if Rittenhouse walks???

It's a political trial over political violence.

If he walks, it confirms rule of law and peoples right to defend themselves against violent attackers..... specifically BLM/AntiFa political violence. A power privilage the left doesn't want to give up.

If he gets the book, it confirms the BLM/AntiFa get a free pass on their political violence.

Either way... the outcome will not be good.