No one here seriously thinks Taiwan is worth fighting for, do you?

[pecksniff]

There is no way a Sino-American war can end well for anybody involved. Even if it does not go nuclear.

 

[pecksniff]

John Oliver on Taiwan.

 

[Cubantripod]

We won't be going at it alone. Taiwan is too important an exporter to the rest of the world.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think Taiwan's worth fighting for/over. That's 23 million people who currently live a free lifestyle. If freedom are self-determination are not worth fighting for, than what is?

 

[Cubantripod]

I think Taiwan's worth fighting for/over. That's 23 million people who currently live a free lifestyle. If freedom are self-determination are not worth fighting for, than what is?

Easiest thing to do for Taiwan and Hong Kong is at the next G-7 for the member countries to start granting visas to people wanting to leave Taiwan and Hong Kong. The Brain Drain will begin. The first people running from communism are always the brightest minds.

 

[pecksniff]

I think Taiwan's worth fighting for/over. That's 23 million people who currently live a free lifestyle. If freedom are self-determination are not worth fighting for, than what is?

You have to consider the cost. The PRC has about a billion foot soldiers and entirely modern armament. And even if we win, imagine the quagmire of occupying a country that size -- it would make Iraq look easy.

 

[pecksniff]

Easiest thing to do for Taiwan and Hong Kong is at the next G-7 for the member countries to start granting visas to people wanting to leave Taiwan and Hong Kong. The Brain Drain will begin. The first people running from communism are always the brightest minds.

In the 1920s and '30s, the brightest minds ran to the USSR.

Of course, there were certain things they did not know about it at the time.

 

[Paul_Chance]

You have to consider the cost. The PRC has about a billion foot soldiers and entirely modern armament. And even if we win, imagine the quagmire of occupying a country that size -- it would make Iraq look easy.

I'll leave the wargaming it to the armchair analysts. Do I think it's worth fighting for - yes. I'm not an Admiral or a General, and I try not to play on online, though I've got opinions.

 

[WillJ8787]

There is no way a Sino-American war can end well for anybody involved. Even if it does not go nuclear.

Correct...the world is a big place. Plenty of places to trade with and no reason to think Taiwan will not continue to be a participant regardless of who runs the place.

War's are not worth it....ever.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Yes, it's worth fighting for.

 

[CornusKousa]

Leftist don't want us to fight, they just want the world to submit to the CCP like good Comrades.

How very NOT shocking

 

[pecksniff]

Leftist don't want us to fight, they just want the world to submit to the CCP like good Comrades.

How very NOT shocking

They're not trying to take over the world. They're not even trying to export Communism to their neighbors, other than Taiwan. Communism is long dead as an international expansionist force.

 

[CornusKousa]

They're not trying to take over the world. They're not even trying to export Communism to their neighbors, other than Taiwan. Communism is long dead as an international expansionist force.

You can ignore reality all you want, but you can't make me do the same

 

[LupusDei]

Taiwan currently produces 90% of last generation microprocessors.

Yes, that's right, nine out of ten of all chips you have everywhere, including likely a lot of militarily hardware comes from an island with murky international status. You guys can't possibly afford not to fight for them.

 

[WillJ8787]

Leftist don't want us to fight, they just want the world to submit to the CCP like good Comrades.

How very NOT shocking

Leftist like me don't want to fight because I know dopey folks like you will be the first to get killed...I'd rather that not happen.

The main difference between other civilized western countries(Europe) and the USA....they had twenty years of recovery from the devestation of those wars and from it came all of the left programs that support their people as decent civilized citizens and human beings. War does that....it focus folks to what is actually important.
Had that kind of devestation happened in the US it would be a vastly different place today...and I'd bet it would resemble the societies one sees all through Europe.

 

[pecksniff]

Taiwan currently produces 90% of last generation microprocessors.

Yes, that's right, nine out of ten of all chips you have everywhere, including likely a lot of militarily hardware comes from an island with murky international status. You guys can't possibly afford not to fight for them.

If the PRC takes over, what are they going to do with those chips? Sell them on the international market, just like everything they make now.

 

[CornusKousa]

Taiwan currently produces 90% of last generation microprocessors.

Yes, that's right, nine out of ten of all chips you have everywhere, including likely a lot of militarily hardware comes from an island with murky international status. You guys can't possibly afford not to fight for them.

The "progressives" say 'Sure we can, just STOP buying CRAP and being such a consumer and the problem will go away. '

And as always anyone who dares question that narrative is a Nazi!!

You've been warned.....

 

[CornusKousa]

If the PRC takes over, what are they going to do with those chips? Sell them on the international market, just like everything they make now.

And then hostile leftist dictate our ability to obtain tech production.

You would REALLY love that wouldn't you?

 

[WillJ8787]

The "progressives" say 'Sure we can, just STOP buying CRAP and being such a consumer and the problem will go away. '

And as always anyone who dares question that narrative is a Nazi!!

You've been warned.....

Avoidance....it isn't like you? Struck a cord?

 

[CornusKousa]

Avoidance....it isn't like you? Struck a cord?

That's mockery son.... learn your words.

 

[LupusDei]

If the PRC takes over, what are they going to do with those chips? Sell them on the international market, just like everything they make now.

Eventually, maybe. If they so choose. And probably with hardware backdoors installed.

But before then, if the take over isn't super smooth, and likely even if it happens to be, there's a disruption of markets like no other.

Sure, the situation as it is, with a practical monopoly in place, is perverse and unsustainable. There's some half-assed efforts to correct it same, namely from Intel trying get back into the game, but the actual monopoly is one level up from that: the ultraviolet lithography machines needed by the chip foundries are built by exactly one Belgian company as fast as they can, but still only by a dozen (maybe two soon) a year, and Taiwan is still buying most.

 

[pecksniff]

And then hostile leftist dictate our ability to obtain tech production.

You would REALLY love that wouldn't you?

Is there any reason we can't make microchips here? They were invented here.

 

[LupusDei]

Is there any reason we can't make microchips here? They were invented here.

Basically, nobody was interested in that as a independent business. The guy went and knocked many a door, and was turned down repeatedly until he went to Taiwan where he found government subsidies to do just that. Yup, those chips are basically made by Americans for Americans, in Taiwan. With a funny place to house business that requires colossal levels of controlled environment, power and water.

Edit:
And yes, Intel had their own foundries. But they screwed it up as a business, keeping it very close and personal, prioritizing in house orders and... well, industrial spying on outside clients was never confirmed, but there always were fears. So, it wasn't profitable as a branch, and they gave it up. Now they try to rebuild, and promise to have it properly divided out. But it will take years to build and then gaining trust.

 

[CornusKousa]

Is there any reason we can't make microchips here? They were invented here.

It's dirty and expensive and would send (D)'eez into fits of rage to see Americans work for a living.

 

[LupusDei]

It's dirty and expensive and would send (D)'eez into fits of rage to see Americans work for a living.

Dirty, not really, not anymore. They process a lot, and it's REALLY LOT of the process water and some of it they can't reuse because of real hard to filter out trace amounts of stuff that doesn't (and shouldn't) really bother anyone, but is enough to screw the insanely precise and delicate things up (we talk about clean rooms with one particle of dust per cubic meter max on average, that sort of things). But they now plan the new foundries in Arizona of all places. So they should have an idea how to solve the water problem so they can reuse it all or nearly all, obviously, or otherwise that's a problem. But maybe the stability of Arizona as a geologic platform outweighs whatever they will have to do to get that process water flowing.

Expensive, oh yeah, very. And not at all that profitable one might think. Packing that shit in shiny designer boxes and selling is the profitable thing.