why do some teenagers get charged as adults?

[butters]

in this instance, i'm referring to the 14-year-old boy from florida being charged as an adult with the murder of a 13-year-old girl but in general, too

yes, the crime is terrible and, no, i don't know all the details other than he supposedly stabbed her 114 times.

i don't understand the whys about a 14 year old being charged as an adult

 

[jaF0]

Up to the state. Usually coded in to law based on the severity of the crime and the states of mind of the accused.

 

[butters]

just seems wrong somehow. no 14 year old is an adult, no matter how old they feel. legally, they're not allowed to buy alcohol, join the army, serve on a jury, or get married without parental consent or, in some states, even get vaccinated without parental consent...yet that can all be brushed aside when it comes to crime?

 

[schism666]

non-political thread. what is it with people who can't follow simple instructions?

 

[Dribble]

just seems wrong somehow. no 14 year old is an adult, no matter how old they feel. legally, they're not allowed to buy alcohol, join the army, serve on a jury, or get married without parental consent or, in some states, even get vaccinated without parental consent...yet that can all be brushed aside when it comes to crime?

Old enough to commit murder...old enough to do the time.

 

[butters]

non-political thread. what is it with people who can't follow simple instructions?

what is it with people who don't bother reading the forum descriptions?

Politics Board (31 Viewing)
Discuss worldwide political and social issues, and share your opinions and views on current events!

if you're going to attempt to patronise me, do it properly

 

[LincolnDuncan]

in this instance, i'm referring to the 14-year-old boy from florida being charged as an adult with the murder of a 13-year-old girl but in general, too

yes, the crime is terrible and, no, i don't know all the details other than he supposedly stabbed her 114 times.

i don't understand the whys about a 14 year old being charged as an adult

I understand your position but in an effort to answer your question as to why he will be waived up to adult court, I'm going to suggest that it is to satisfy the public's desire for punishment. The story of a 14-year-old boy stabbing a 13-year-old girl 114 times had to receive a lot of press coverage. Consider that some people hearing that story want him executed. Public opinion and revenge are probably not in any state's criminal code, but it always plays a role in high-profile cases.

 

[schism666]

what is it with people who don't bother reading the forum descriptions?
f you're going to attempt to patronise me, do it properly

that definition describes the gb more than the pb but if you want to post on the wrong board, you do you, toots.

 

[CuttingEdge]

People have to remember that we have courts and punishment for two reasons.

Yes, we have to punish those that break the law so that there is a deterrent to just breaking laws, but the other side of that is, those who have been victimized need to feel some sort of restitution. IF victims do not feel they were given proper restitution, then we have a country that is full of vigilantes who take crime and punishment onto themselves and we quickly become lawless.

As a society we just cannot have that.

In this case, the families of the victim, and the general public who hears about it, would not feel justice was served if the 14 year old was sentenced as a juvenile and released in 4 years when they are 18 years old.

Obviously we as a society do not want a murderer walking our streets in 4 years time, so we have caveats in our laws to prevent that.

 

[Comshaw]

in this instance, i'm referring to the 14-year-old boy from florida being charged as an adult with the murder of a 13-year-old girl but in general, too

yes, the crime is terrible and, no, i don't know all the details other than he supposedly stabbed her 114 times.

i don't understand the whys about a 14 year old being charged as an adult

First off let's look at the crime. I would argue that if he had stabbed her once, maybe twice and she died it could have been in an uncontrolled fit of rage, or some other reason a child of 14 would do because they have little or no impulse control. But 114 times? That indicates it was done for some other reason, enjoyment in the stabbing, disassociative analysis of the process, something other than heat of the moment. That being the case, they are dealing with much more than just a 14-year old that stabbed a girl out of spite or anger.

There are completely different standards for incarceration for adults and juveniles.
If he was tried and sentenced as a juvenile I believe the justice system (in most cases) requires he be released at 21 years of age. If he is tried as an adult, and found guilty of the crime he can be incarcerated for a longer period of time, up to the length of his natural life.

Even if he is found mentally incompetent or in need of psychiatric care as a juvenile he can't be held indefinitely; as an adult he can. There are more reasons to try him as an adult than just punishment and justice for the family of the victim.

That being said, keep a thought for the victim, keep a thought for the fact that he stabbed her 114 TIMES. He's either completely and utterly insane or a serial killer in the making. Either way he shouldn't be free to try it again.

Comshaw

 

[Earthlyone]

non-political thread. what is it with people who can't follow simple instructions?

A discussion about this is bound to go down a political road as the law makers are politicians.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

People have to remember that we have courts and punishment for two reasons.

Yes, we have to punish those that break the law so that there is a deterrent to just breaking laws, but the other side of that is, those who have been victimized need to feel some sort of restitution. IF victims do not feel they were given proper restitution, then we have a country that is full of vigilantes who take crime and punishment onto themselves and we quickly become lawless.

As a society we just cannot have that.

In this case, the families of the victim, and the general public who hears about it, would not feel justice was served if the 14 year old was sentenced as a juvenile and released in 4 years when they are 18 years old.

Obviously we as a society do not want a murderer walking our streets in 4 years time, so we have caveats in our laws to prevent that.

There is a significant difference between punishment and "restitution." If a crime victim suffers a financial loss, then restitution is appropriate. Making someone spend time in prison longer than what might be necessary is revenge and serves no purpose other than to provide corrections jobs paid for with taxpayer money. If I was a victim of a crime, I would want revenge but I recognize that as a human weakness that serves no purpose.

"Justice must be dispassionate or it isn't justice, its revenge masquerading as justice"

~Unk~

 

[butters]

that definition describes the gb more than the pb but if you want to post on the wrong board, you do you, toots.

personally, i'd agree with you...but the definition is stated BY the site owners on THEIR website (here), so if you have an issue with it being incorrect for this board, perhaps take it up with them, toots.

I understand your position but in an effort to answer your question as to why he will be waived up to adult court, I'm going to suggest that it is to satisfy the public's desire for punishment. The story of a 14-year-old boy stabbing a 13-year-old girl 114 times had to receive a lot of press coverage. Consider that some people hearing that story want him executed. Public opinion and revenge are probably not in any state's criminal code, but it always plays a role in high-profile cases.

thankyou for this i guess what i don't really understand is why aren't there the parameters to deal with this crime (and it truly IS an horrific crime) suitably under the current legal parameters. teens have murdered before. i also think i got a bit reactionary, equating being tried as an adult to serving time in an adult prison/jail (again, confusion over which is the correct term as there's not that difference in the brit system...they're both 'prison', though some are less severe than others)

People have to remember that we have courts and punishment for two reasons.

Yes, we have to punish those that break the law so that there is a deterrent to just breaking laws, but the other side of that is, those who have been victimized need to feel some sort of restitution. IF victims do not feel they were given proper restitution, then we have a country that is full of vigilantes who take crime and punishment onto themselves and we quickly become lawless.

As a society we just cannot have that.

In this case, the families of the victim, and the general public who hears about it, would not feel justice was served if the 14 year old was sentenced as a juvenile and released in 4 years when they are 18 years old.

Obviously we as a society do not want a murderer walking our streets in 4 years time, so we have caveats in our laws to prevent that.

thankyou, too, for this. although britain and america are close cousins, there's a world of difference in even the smallest things at times and i really am still trying to learn about this country.

isn't any system that would release a juvenile after 4 years for having stabbed another juvenile all those times is, respectfully, a system that needs some overhauling?

First off let's look at the crime. I would argue that if he had stabbed her once, maybe twice and she died it could have been in an uncontrolled fit of rage, or some other reason a child of 14 would do because they have little or no impulse control. But 114 times? That indicates it was done for some other reason, enjoyment in the stabbing, disassociative analysis of the process, something other than heat of the moment. That being the case, they are dealing with much more than just a 14-year old that stabbed a girl out of spite or anger.

There are completely different standards for incarceration for adults and juveniles.
If he was tried and sentenced as a juvenile I believe the justice system (in most cases) requires he be released at 21 years of age. If he is tried as an adult, and found guilty of the crime he can be incarcerated for a longer period of time, up to the length of his natural life.

Even if he is found mentally incompetent or in need of psychiatric care as a juvenile he can't be held indefinitely; as an adult he can. There are more reasons to try him as an adult than just punishment and justice for the family of the victim.

That being said, keep a thought for the victim, keep a thought for the fact that he stabbed her 114 TIMES. He's either completely and utterly insane or a serial killer in the making. Either way he shouldn't be free to try it again.

Comshaw

thankyou, so i now understand this is all about the length of time he would be required to be incarcerated for rather than his actual age thing; i would guess that full psych evals would take place regularly and would otherwise be treated as someone else at 14 would be?
i absolutely DO think of that poor child he murdered, and the devastating grief her family must bear. this wasn't ever about excusing his actions, just my attempting to understand the systems in place to deal with something like this.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Americans are insane. That's why. Also for profit prisons... get em hooked when they're young.

 

[CuttingEdge]

There is a significant difference between punishment and "restitution." If a crime victim suffers a financial loss, then restitution is appropriate. Making someone spend time in prison longer than what might be necessary is revenge and serves no purpose other than to provide corrections jobs paid for with taxpayer money. If I was a victim of a crime, I would want revenge but I recognize that as a human weakness that serves no purpose.

"Justice must be dispassionate or it isn't justice, its revenge masquerading as justice"

~Unk~

You say that because it has never happened to you.

When you are the family member of the murdered victim, then you begin to have empathy for other murder victim families, or understand the tremendous grief that could befall on other potential victim families should this murder be released.

Empathy in this case means, the length of time in prison should be a life long sentence since this person has clearly shown that at 14 years old they are not capable of living in society. Its not revenge if they are in prison for an incredibly long time instead of being released in 4-7 years; it is insurance for society that does not want more victims.

If victims families, or society does not get that feeling of restitution from court, then it results in vigilante justice which only makes the problem worse, and causes us to become lawless as a society.

 

[colddiesel]

Old enough to commit murder...old enough to do the time.

Read the wiki biography of George Junius Stinney Jnr.

The only objection made at his trial, conviction, and execution aged 14, was because he was so small, he had to be seated on a Bible, to enable his electrocution. One of the witnesses thought it was a dreadful sacrilege of "The Good Book."

 

[Biggs_Darklighter]

Because some people are simply monsters at any age. By 14 most serial killers have at least shown multiple signs, many have started killing.
You stab somebody 114 times then you were more than mad and you knew exactly what you were doing.

 

[jomar]

Read the wiki biography of George Junius Stinney Jnr.

The only objection made at his trial, conviction, and execution aged 14, was because he was so small, he had to be seated on a Bible, to enable his electrocution. One of the witnesses thought it was a dreadful sacrilege of "The Good Book."

That isn’t the best example. The evidence was weak to nonexistent and the defense also basically absent. The verdict was eventually overturned, clearing his name, though far too late for him.

 

[colddiesel]

That isn’t the best example. The evidence was weak to nonexistent and the defense also basically absent. The verdict was eventually overturned, clearing his name, though far too late for him.

A bad example in the sense you understood, but a fairly good one to illustrate the danger of irrevocable decisions with young lives.

 

[domroger]

Read the wiki biography of George Junius Stinney Jnr.

The only objection made at his trial, conviction, and execution aged 14, was because he was so small, he had to be seated on a Bible, to enable his electrocution. One of the witnesses thought it was a dreadful sacrilege of "The Good Book."

I Googled that and as expected he was black .

 

[jomar]

A bad example in the sense you understood, but a fairly good one to illustrate the danger of irrevocable decisions with young lives.

I do agree with that.

 

[Rightguide]

in this instance, i'm referring to the 14-year-old boy from florida being charged as an adult with the murder of a 13-year-old girl but in general, too

yes, the crime is terrible and, no, i don't know all the details other than he supposedly stabbed her 114 times.

i don't understand the whys about a 14 year old being charged as an adult

Because some crimes are exceedingly heinous and unforgiveable. Some youngsters are so damaged and dangerous they cannot be let loose on society and so the forfeit their right to walk freely in civilized society.