What does conservatism, as such, have to offer our society any more?

[pecksniff]

Since the Goldwater campaign in 1964, American movement conservatism has incorporated several allied strands:

1. Warhawkery, most recently expressed in the form of neoconservatism, a movement for taking a hard line in the Cold War that found new direction after 9/11. But it is clearly fading away as a political force. Even Trump rejected it. Nobody really cares any more about American military hegemony.

2. Supply-side economics, neoliberalism, economic libertarianism in general. That has had its day. It was tried, here and elsewhere, tried very thoroughly, and it never accomplished anything but its real intended purpose, which was to make the rich richer. It is about as thoroughly discredited now as Stalinism. Things in general go much better in social democracies.

3. Religious-right social conservatism. Since this is the Lit and we're all pervs here, I hope we can all agree there is no value whatsoever in that.

4. Racism/nativism. Usually expressed in dog-whistle form, as in Nixon's Southern Strategy, it got a lot bolder when the Tea Party emerged and morphed into the Trump movement.

What good is any of it? What good was any of it, ever?

 

[ll74]

Since the Goldwater campaign in 1964, American movement conservatism has incorporated several allied strands:

1. Warhawkery, most recently expressed in the form of neoconservatism, a movement for taking a hard line in the Cold War that found new direction after 9/11. But it is clearly fading away as a political force. Even Trump rejected it. Nobody really cares any more about American military hegemony.

2. Supply-side economics, neoliberalism, economic libertarianism in general. That has had its day. It was tried, here and elsewhere, tried very thoroughly, and it never accomplished anything but its real intended purpose, which was to make the rich richer. It is about as thoroughly discredited now as Stalinism. Things in general go much better in social democracies.

3. Religious-right social conservatism. Since this is the Lit and we're all pervs here, I hope we can all agree there is no value whatsoever in that.

4. Racism/nativism. Usually expressed in dog-whistle form, as in Nixon's Southern Strategy, it got a lot bolder when the Tea Party emerged and morphed into the Trump movement.

What good is any of it? What good was any of it, ever?

Republicans have done that. They left conservatism in the 80s.

 

[Rightguide]

What does conservatism, as such, have to offer our society any more?



The conservation of this singular federalist, constitutional republic, and the preservation of the greatest, most unique, governing document ever penned in the history of Man.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Plenty of left wing war mongering hawks, and plenty of conservatives isolationists.

 

[pecksniff]

What does conservatism, as such, have to offer our society any more?



The conservation of this singular federalist, constitutional republic, and the preservation of the greatest, most unique, governing document ever penned in the history of Man.

Preservation from what? It was never under threat, not at any time since 1865.

 

[CornusKousa]

Preservation from what? It was never under threat, not at any time since 1865.

"progress".

It's a direct threat today, that's why the left wants all those pesky old ideas, habits, customs and culture gone so the federal government can "progress" us into a more equitable future for all, with social justice!!!

 

[pecksniff]

"progress".

It's a direct threat today, that's why the left wants all those pesky old ideas, habits, customs and culture gone so the federal government can "progress" us into a more equitable future for all, with social justice!!!

Social democracy would be no threat to our constitutional republic.

 

[WillJ8787]

Since the Goldwater campaign in 1964, American movement conservatism has incorporated several allied strands:

1. Warhawkery, most recently expressed in the form of neoconservatism, a movement for taking a hard line in the Cold War that found new direction after 9/11. But it is clearly fading away as a political force. Even Trump rejected it. Nobody really cares any more about American military hegemony.

2. Supply-side economics, neoliberalism, economic libertarianism in general. That has had its day. It was tried, here and elsewhere, tried very thoroughly, and it never accomplished anything but its real intended purpose, which was to make the rich richer. It is about as thoroughly discredited now as Stalinism. Things in general go much better in social democracies.

3. Religious-right social conservatism. Since this is the Lit and we're all pervs here, I hope we can all agree there is no value whatsoever in that.

4. Racism/nativism. Usually expressed in dog-whistle form, as in Nixon's Southern Strategy, it got a lot bolder when the Tea Party emerged and morphed into the Trump movement.

What good is any of it? What good was any of it, ever?

I think you make some great points that are definitely worth a look at a debate.

I do think we still have a lot of neo-religious folks and that keeps them voting for conservative/Repub issues.

Let me preface this by saying Neo-religious: baptism, marriage, death religious. They don't really believe in abstenance from sex, or not using birth control and abortions are on the table to be kept secret from others while outwardly, in some cases calling for an end to abortions.

The elected/community leaders of this group are even more out of line with religious doctrine....having non-hetero sex, under age sex with minors, not really following any conservative principles privately but publicly behaving as if they are the most conservative and faithful.

This does affect voting...single issue voters in particular.

 

[WillJ8787]

Social democracy would be no threat to our constitutional republic.

Yep, it's no threat....he has cavemanitus and would have us all living in the dark ages. Thank goodness everyone accepts progress as a path toward a better society.

 

[pecksniff]

Thank goodness everyone accepts progress as a path toward a better society.

No, everyone accepts that's what the word means. The actual content, what is or is not "progress," remains a divisive question.

 

[CornusKousa]

Social democracy would be no threat to our constitutional republic.

It's a direct threat, you can only have one form of government at a time.

Social democracy, or constitutional republic, pick one.

 

[Rightguide]

Preservation from what? It was never under threat, not at any time since 1865.

You realize you're completely nuts, right?

 

[icanhelp1]

Social democracy would be no threat to our constitutional republic.

Social democracy or any democracy is unitary in structure and antithetical to our republican form of government.

 

[pecksniff]

Social democracy or any democracy is unitary in structure and antithetical to our republican form of government.

There is no dichotomy between a democracy and a republic. When people say something like that, what they usually mean by it, when they mean anything at all, is that the U.S. is a federal rather than a unitary state -- which is both true and important, but has nothing at all to do with any supposed difference between "democracy" and "republic." The United States is a democratic republic -- as opposed to, say, an aristocratic republic, like the ancient Roman republic, or the old Venetian republic, where the doge was elected but only the nobility could vote.

 

[pecksniff]

You realize you're completely nuts, right?

I suppose you could except certain foreign wars, but I was thinking of domestic threats. We haven't really had those. Even in the 1960s, when so many people right and left were talking of "revolution," it was never a real possibility -- it wasn't a revolutionary situation.

 

[pecksniff]

It's a direct threat, you can only have one form of government at a time.

Social democracy, or constitutional republic, pick one.

All social democracies now existing are constitutional republics -- or constitutional monarchies, "crowned republics" in essence. They have elected governments and the rule of law and no secret police or gulags.

 

[OldJourno]

Since the Goldwater campaign in 1964, American movement conservatism has incorporated several allied strands:

1. Warhawkery

2. Supply-side economics

3. Religious-right social conservatism.

4. Racism/nativism. Usually expressed in dog-whistle form.

What good is any of it? What good was any of it, ever?

Always great to respond to people who make up their own "facts."
!, Warhawkery - Democrats were for it before they were against it.

2. Supply side economics - Why is is so difficult to grasp the concept that the economy does better when people are allowed to keep more of the money they earn?

3.Religious right social conservatism - Translation: Ooh, these scary people believe in God.

4. Racism/nativism. Usually expressed in dog-whistle form. - The latest Democrat dog whistle, which sounds really racist to me, is that blacks are too stupid to get ID in order to vote. Biden broadened the Democrats' racism platform by noting in a recent speech that blacks in business have been hampered by not having the smarts and/or resources to pay for attorneys and accountants.

 

[nowisthetime]

There are many Democrats who are true conservatives. My parents lean conservative but they are hardcore Dems.

Here is the thing, there is a huge difference between being "conservative" and being a "deplorable", the two terms aren't mutual.

Deplorables claim to be conservatives, but are they really?

For example, they often support or excuse reprehensible behavior from politicians, the caveat is that they have to have an R in front of their name.

That's what I call a hypocrite.

 

[pecksniff]

Always great to respond to people who make up their own "facts."
!, Warhawkery - Democrats were for it before they were against it.

Of course. It was Dem administrations that got us into 'Nam. OTOH, the Dems have not for a long time made military aggression an ideological element of a movement. And even the Pubs have dropped that recently. One thing Trump was honest about was his disinterest in foreign military adventures.

2. Supply side economics - Why is is so difficult to grasp the concept that the economy does better when people are allowed to keep more of the money they earn?

Because we've seen what happens -- nothing good -- when economic policy is based on that kind of thinking. Let us have no more of Reaganism or Thatcherism. It only makes the rich richer while everyone else's incomes stagnate.

3.Religious right social conservatism - Translation: Ooh, these scary people believe in God.

The problem is that they won't keep it to themselves. They insist public policy should be based on what they think God wants. That's never a good idea.

4. Racism/nativism. Usually expressed in dog-whistle form. - The latest Democrat dog whistle, which sounds really racist to me, is that blacks are too stupid to get ID in order to vote.

No, too poor.

 

[CornusKousa]

All social democracies now existing are constitutional republics -- or constitutional monarchies, "crowned republics" in essence. They have elected governments and the rule of law and no secret police or gulags.

They can call themselves all sorts of things.

Doesn't make it so.

And any "constitutional republic" that is run like a democracy isn't much of a republic.

 

[CornusKousa]

No, too poor.

There are more poor white people than there are black people total...LOL

 

[WillJ8787]

I suppose you could except certain foreign wars, but I was thinking of domestic threats. We haven't really had those. Even in the 1960s, when so many people right and left were talking of "revolution," it was never a real possibility -- it wasn't a revolutionary situation.

Your 100% correct.

There is no lefty threat from Progressives, Communist, Socialist...that's just rightist propaganda.

Even though we did see a Capitol Hill riot and insurection...it really wasn't a significant threat. It was incompetent and disorganized at best and those folks are all going to jail...our current gov't had all the necessary resources to mitigate it and any potential on-going threats....which is now a lot of hot air from the Wrongway/BoBo types.

 

[pecksniff]

They can call themselves all sorts of things.

Doesn't make it so.

And any "constitutional republic" that is run like a democracy isn't much of a republic.

If it has elected government and the rule of law, that makes it a system worth imitating, regardless of whether it counts as a "constitutional republic" by your definition.

Other than the U.S., what countries would you consider constitutional republics?

 

[pecksniff]

There are more poor white people than there are black people total...LOL

And I would cut poor whites the same slack with regard to presenting ID to vote.

 

[ll74]

They can call themselves all sorts of things.

Doesn't make it so.

And any "constitutional republic" that is run like a democracy isn't much of a republic.

A republic is a representative democracy.