Police training/police shooting

[RobDownSouth]

It is not just training, recruitment and equipment are vitally important. The US police forces recruit heavily from ex military, partly because a lot of basic training and institutional cultures are appropriate, These guys already have those attributes and are therefore much cheaper to train.

My service in the army involved what were then basically police actions in both the Malaya insurgency and in Aden (Yemen). In Aden in particular we were not trained to de-escalate and we killed a lot more than was necessary. If police are going to be equipped like the military (and that need is questionable) they need to know when and when not to use it. The 'rules of engagement' followed (or not) by the police are all over the place. Militarisation of policing is dumb.

Finally, 27% of all the privately owned firearms in the world are owned by Americans so enough criminals are well enough armed to guarantee they are going to be shot in fairly significant numbers.

There are no easy answers but de-funding is stupid. They need good training, good pay, and both accountability to minimum standards, and firm support from the societies they protect is required.

And turning policing into a left v right political squabble is absurd from both sides concerned.

I respectfully completely disagree with your position. In my way of thinking, the ONLY things that military and police have in common are

• they both wear uniforms
• they both have proficiency in firearms.

The primary military mindset is to destroy the enemy.
The primary police mindset should be to preserve the peace.

Military personnel are subject to the chain of command.
Police departments nowadays chafe at any sort of civilian oversight.

Military force achieve "peace through superior firepower". They are trained to escalate a situation until the enemy is destroyed.
Police SHOULD be experts are de-escalation, instead they now see themselves as "junior varsity military" and tend to escalate rather than de-escalate situations.

"Defund the police" is an insipid, misleading phrase. More appropriate would be "demilitarize the police", i.e. take away their tanks and rocket launchers.

Over the past 20 years, police have forfeited any and all goodwill they have had with the people they are charged to protect. They have shown time and again to "protect their own" at the expense of the general public. They have forfeited the respect of the general public as a result.

Police nowadays have morphed into a right-wing paramilitary goon squad, not unlike the "above the law" SA Brownshirts of Nazi Germany in the 1930s. As such, framing this as a "left vs.right" argument is completely valid.

 

[Lazaran]

.
The wealth disparity component is too often overlooked when considering why there are a disproportional amount of contacts between black Americans and law enforcement.

White Americans on average possess 10 times as much wealth as black Americans, which translates into where they live, what they drive, what they do for entertainment, and of course, what they are willing to do to get money.. All of those things can directly result in a contact with law enforcement.

Also, money problems are the leading cause of domestic disputes, which invariably results in a police contact.

Each police contact is an opportunity for something to go wrong, and for things to escalate.

Wealth also determines if an individual can get quality preemptive mental health treatment, which can go a long way in reducing some of the most tragic encounters between the public and law enforcement.

Better training of law enforcement officers won't address the root cause of the problem, (the legacy of racist wealth disparity) but it's something I guess.......

 

[icanhelp1]

The citations are all out there and you're wrong about the outcomes. The numbers I posted that you quoted are all the evidence you need.

As far as "twice as likely to be stopped" goes, that is a dangling statement and is so highly dependent on circumstance and location as to be virtually worthless. Twice as likely as what?

In an urban setting with a predominately black demographic with a high crime rate the chances are stacked against black men. 54% of all felonies are committed by black men so going after a 90 year/old white grandmother is not the way to go.
De-escalation starts with not resisting arrest.

 

[icanhelp1]

.
The wealth disparity component is too often overlooked when considering why there are a disproportional amount of contacts between black Americans and law enforcement.

White Americans on average possess 10 times as much wealth as black Americans, which translates into where they live, what they drive, what they do for entertainment, and of course, what they are willing to do to get money.. All of those things can directly result in a contact with law enforcement.

Also, money problems are the leading cause of domestic disputes, which invariably results in a police contact.

Each police contact is an opportunity for something to go wrong, and for things to escalate.

Wealth also determines if an individual can get quality preemptive mental health treatment, which can go a long way in reducing some of the most tragic encounters between the public and law enforcement.

Better training of law enforcement officers won't address the root cause of the problem, (the legacy of racist wealth disparity) but it's something I guess.......

^^^^^^
Read Robert Woodson's book " Red White and Black" then get back to me!

 

[Rightguide]

I respectfully completely disagree with your position. In my way of thinking, the ONLY things that military and police have in common are

• they both wear uniforms
• they both have proficiency in firearms.

The primary military mindset is to destroy the enemy.
The primary police mindset should be to preserve the peace.

The primary duty of the police is to enforce the law, and in doing so, serve and protect the public.

Military personnel are subject to the chain of command.
Police departments nowadays chafe at any sort of civilian oversight.

All police departments have an internal chain of command, all of whom answer to Civilian leadership.

Military force achieve "peace through superior firepower". They are trained to escalate a situation until the enemy is destroyed.
Police SHOULD be experts are de-escalation, instead they now see themselves as "junior varsity military" and tend to escalate rather than de-escalate situations.

This is hyperbole. Police do, in the vast majority of cases, try to deescalate situations in their contacts with the public. Trouble is you have a generation coming up, who've been taught to hate and resist the lawful orders of police. Sometimes these kinds of contact can and do escalate into unfortunate events. That is not to say bad overstepping officer do not exist, they do. They are however in the minority, but that doesn't stop folks like you from using their sins to tar brush the entire police community. Just so you know, last year our military lost 17 dead in 2020, the police departments of America suffered 21 times that number of dead officers in the same year.

"Defund the police" is an insipid, misleading phrase. More appropriate would be "demilitarize the police", i.e. take away their tanks and rocket launchers.

What city police force or Sheriff's Department has tanks and rocket launchers?

Over the past 20 years, police have forfeited any and all goodwill they have had with the people they are charged to protect. They have shown time and again to "protect their own" at the expense of the general public. They have forfeited the respect of the general public as a result.

Faith in the nation's police is being eroded, by the left, the media, by misinformed people, and people like you who know better but spread the hateful propaganda anyway for political gain.

Police nowadays have morphed into a right-wing paramilitary goon squad, not unlike the "above the law" SA Brownshirts of Nazi Germany in the 1930s. As such, framing this as a "left vs.right" argument is completely valid.

I agree the public argument is a right vs left argument, but the left's (BLM's)argument that all police are white racist killers who hunt black people in the streets on a daily basis, is a lie designed to bring down order and spread chaos in the country.

PS: NYPD 32% white. LAPD 32% white. Chicago PD 50% white. San Francisco PD 49% white. So if what you say is true there are a lot of brown shirt right wing minorities.

 

[Rightguide]

The DA just ruled the shooting of Andrew Brown, legal. His car was moving towards them when they opened fire.

 

[Lazaran]

.
I stand by everything I posted, regardless of what someone peddling another opinion piece has to say.

For those like ineedhelp1 who are incapable of independent thought, I'm sure other people's opinions are all they have to fall back on.

*nods*

 

[Rightguide]

.
The wealth disparity component is too often overlooked when considering why there are a disproportional amount of contacts between black Americans and law enforcement.

White Americans on average possess 10 times as much wealth as black Americans, which translates into...

...the Democrat problem of too many black females being married to the government instead of productive black males in the private sector.

 

[Lazaran]

.
Obviously another hit landed on RotGuts racist muzzle, because it immediately started hollerin'.

*nods*

 

[WillJ8787]

...the Democrat problem of too many black females being married to the government instead of productive black males in the private sector.

Just about as racist a comment one can make...thanks racist.

 

[icanhelp1]

.
I stand by everything I posted, regardless of what someone peddling another opinion piece has to say.

For those like ineedhelp1 who are incapable of independent thought, I'm sure other people's opinions are all they have to fall back on.

*nods*

Rob Woodson is an honorable black scholar that supports neighborhood initiatives to invest and revitalize low income communities. He's a community activist who lived the plight in low income democrat run shitholes. Independent thought has to have a foundation steeped in facts and not based in conjecture.

 

[Rightguide]

Just about as racist a comment one can make...thanks racist.

There is absolutely nothing racist about pointing out a simple truth. If you recall it was you who made it racist by mentioning only black women. Notice my reply to your CYA thread on the same general subject.

 

[Lazaran]

.
ineedhelp1 is kinda slow on the uptake.

I still stand by every word I posted.

*nods*

 

[WillJ8787]

There is absolutely nothing racist about pointing out a simple truth. If you recall it was you who made it racist by mentioning only black women. Notice my reply to your CYA thread on the same general subject.

What you said isn't true and here is the facts....

Source:https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1545413

 

[Philthy_Phil]

...the Democrat problem of too many black females being married to the government instead of productive black males in the private sector.

It's all those pesky black folks fault once again.

You are pathetic.

 

[icanhelp1]

.
ineedhelp1 is kinda slow on the uptake.

I still stand by every word I posted.

*nods*

Just because you stand by your every word doesn't validate your word. The world is full of people that stand by their word, most would be ignorant fools.

 

[Lazaran]

.
I still stand by every word I posted.

*nods*

 

[Rightguide]

It's all those pesky black folks fault once again.

You are pathetic.

He brought up the subject of blacks. It applies to all women on welfare, regardless of race.

 

[Rightguide]

Where's Rob? Is he working the nightshift at 7-11 tonight?

 

[Champakian]

Overall a good article with some valid points worthy of consideration.

However

There are some misleading statements as well as some observations that weren't made.

For example this;

" - and disproportionately against African-Americans, compared with the percentage of the population they represent."

Superficially that IS a valid statement. The problem is that they are victims of police shootings far less than their contacts with the police. In that regard whites are far more likely to be shot than blacks. For example in 2020 241 blacks were shot by police versus 457 whites. While blacks comprise only 13% of the population they commit approx. 54% of all felonies. Each felony represents potential police contact therefore the ratio of black to white officer involved shootings is skewed the wrong way. In other words one would expect the number of police shootings to track as a percentage of the populations crime rates. If that were the case one would expect the number of blacks shot by police to be far higher than it is.

The article uses Finland and Norway as examples and I find no particular fault with that comparison. What is not mentioned is that those particular nations have a very homogeneous populations. Generally speaking regarding developed nations the more homogeneous the population, the lower the crime rate. Once again police shootings should reasonably track as a percentage of overall crime rates (felonies). So it should come as no surprise that those nations would have fewer police shootings than the US.

All of the above being said, the observations concerning the extent of police training and the type of training are all valid points.

War on drugs...