Striving for Plausibility

[TadOverdon]

I'm conflicted about @lovecraft68: he's undeniably a talented writer but also one of the most toxic people I've ever encountered in any forum or online space, anywhere.

A really good writer with personal opinions that some people find objectionable? When's the last time that happened?

There are a couple of folks on the Internet who get on my nerves. @lovecraft68 ain't one of 'em.

If I want to get worked up about a "toxic writer" I'll go read J.K. Rowling's tweets.

 

[TadOverdon]

On the subject of plausibility, I can't write scenes where a character loses their virginity any more. They don't ring true for me and I can't get into them because I don't think I knew a single person growing up who was still a virgin at eighteen and I'm not sure that I've talked to one since, in real life. I used to put scenes like that into stories because I thought they should be there. Now I just skip the whole subject. Which is just as well since it's such a peculiar social construct anyway.

 

[SimonDoom]

On the subject of plausibility, I can't write scenes where a character loses their virginity any more. They don't ring true for me and I can't get into them because I don't think I knew a single person growing up who was still a virgin at eighteen and I'm not sure that I've talked to one since, in real life. I used to put scenes like that into stories because I thought they should be there. Now I just skip the whole subject. Which is just as well since it's such a peculiar social construct anyway.

That's odd. I have known many people who had not had sex when they turned 18. Studies show that 20% of college graduates haven't had sex by the time they graduate, and this phenomenon appears to be increasing rather than decreasing. This is one of the MORE plausible scenarios that pop up in Literotica stories -- much more so than Mom and Son getting together.

 

[TadOverdon]

Anything's more plausible than mother-son, just as anything's more plausible than Spider-Man.

I don't have kids, so I guess I don't keep up with Gen-Z sexual mores. And I didn't go to Oral Roberts University, so I don't know what that crowd was up to. Everyone I knew well enough to hear about it got laid in middle school or high school. Don't remember any virgins in our crowd at Uni. Of course I didn't do surveys of people I didn't hang with.

But I'm Gen X. We thought Sixteen Candles was an orientation video. LOL

My age and disconnect from Zoomers is probably another good reason to stop writing about people that age. The last two things I've done don't have any characters younger than twenty, and they're supporting. Most are older than that.

 

[CyranoJ]

That's odd. I have known many people who had not had sex when they turned 18.

Many people in Gen X bullshitted about losing their virginity before the end of high school without actually doing so. It's true that it was very rare to meet people who'd admit being a "virgin" past the age of eighteen: it was a weird, shameful, loser-identified thing, especially if you were male, and "losing your virginity" specifically meant PIV sex, nothing else.

I would hope most of those people are over that stigma by now. I had sexual experiences when I was a teenager but I didn't have full-on sex until I was 21, and about 30% of my generation was the same or "bloomed" later yet. I was thinking younger generations are getting be to a bit more candid about this, but maybe not so much given that the question still comes up.

 

[TadOverdon]

"That's a beautiful theory," as Andie said.

I lived in a cul-de-sac where there didn't seem to be anyone of legal drinking age at home anywhere until six in the evening. But we were.

[ETA] So, asked Himself Downstairs, who is five years older than I. He was a virgin until he was twenty. Did it with his fiancée in an honest to god Holiday Inn. And it's passing strange that we've never talked about that at all.

 

[KeithD]

That's odd. I have known many people who had not had sex when they turned 18. Studies show that 20% of college graduates haven't had sex by the time they graduate, and this phenomenon appears to be increasing rather than decreasing. This is one of the MORE plausible scenarios that pop up in Literotica stories -- much more so than Mom and Son getting together.

I didn't go beyond kissing and fondling until I was married at 22 (made up the lost time later).

And this doesn't have anything to do with the rules of this private website.

 

[TadOverdon]

And this doesn't have anything to do with the rules of this private website.

No, it doesn't. But that's another, now-locked, topic. This is the Plausibility Department.

 

[KeithD]

No, it doesn't. But that's another, now-locked, topic. This is the Plausibility Department.

To which you've brought back the topic of underage with a suggestion that "everyone's done it before 18." Well, no they haven't, and it's not implausible if they haven't.

I go back to something that amuses me--that when I'm challenged on plausibility in a story it's most often for one of the few elements of the story that actually happened. The example I give is that I have a story about an Amish honeymooning couple arriving for a Caribbean cruise in Amish style, letting loose during the cruise, and leaving in Amish style. I got called on that, for one thing, because, it was claimed, "The Amish don't go on cruises." Well, the story was written because I went on a cruise, watched an Amish honeymoon couple arrive on the ship dressed Amish, watched them let loose on the cruise, and watched them leave the ship in Amish dress. I know Amish when I see them.

 

[TadOverdon]

To which you've brought back the topic of underage with a suggestion that "everyone's done it before 18." Well, no they haven't, and it's not implausible if they haven't.

Oh, unclench for god's sake.

I didn't post "KeithD isn't allowed to find it plausible." I also didn't say "people ought/ought not be able to write about underage sex on Literotica." I don't write that stuff so I don't care. You decided that you should reframe the discussion here in your capacity as an eager rules lawyer.

Oh, and you were a virgin on your wedding night? Here's your gold star, kid.

 

[KeithD]

Oh, unclench for god's sake.

I didn't post "KeithD isn't allowed to find it plausible." You were a virgin on your wedding night. Here's your gold star, kid.

Why, thank you. I'll put it where it deserves.

You don't like people responding to your bluster, do you?

In any event I can wait out to see what lasting power you have. We have a whole lot of posters who come on with a "hey look how cool I am" blanketing posting bluster for a couple of months and then just disappear. Most of them like you just disappear in a couple of months.

 

[lovecraft68]

Anything's more plausible than mother-son, just as anything's more plausible than Spider-Man.

I don't have kids, so I guess I don't keep up with Gen-Z sexual mores. And I didn't go to Oral Roberts University, so I don't know what that crowd was up to. Everyone I knew well enough to hear about it got laid in middle school or high school. Don't remember any virgins in our crowd at Uni. Of course I didn't do surveys of people I didn't hang with.

But I'm Gen X. We thought Sixteen Candles was an orientation video. LOL

My age and disconnect from Zoomers is probably another good reason to stop writing about people that age. The last two things I've done don't have any characters younger than twenty, and they're supporting. Most are older than that.

I'll be honest here, I have no idea what Gen Z, X boomers etc are in the sense of age. I know millennial, but that's about it.

I was born in 68, what does that make me? No idea and it doesn't matter anyway because an entire generation did not behave just like each other.

But when it comes to age/sex sometimes it comes down to upbringing, home life, morals, ethics, parents instilling certain things in you, religion...fear...

I had sex way before 18 because of everything else I'd already been through in life sex wasn't something I saw as wrong or I should be worried about, she was a year older than me-and not her first time-and wanted 'it" i didn't really know what it was, but I was open to anything...turns out "it" was a lot of fun...for those three sticky awkward minutes,

 

[lovecraft68]

No, it doesn't. But that's another, now-locked, topic. This is the Plausibility Department.

Good thing there is no make believe rule about plausibility or this topic would be locked too.

 

[CyranoJ]

[ETA] So, asked Himself Downstairs, who is five years older than I. He was a virgin until he was twenty. Did it with his fiancée in an honest to god Holiday Inn. And it's passing strange that we've never talked about that at all.

Yeah, that doesn't sound too uncommon. Personally, I find I learned a lot more details like that about various friends' and significant others' lives once we were all out of our Twenties and less obsessed with Being Cool.

 

[TadOverdon]

I was born in 68, what does that make me? No idea and it doesn't matter anyway because an entire generation did not behave just like each other.

You're early Gen X. I'm late.

And yes, all this popular sociology about age cohorts is both confusing and silly. But there are cultural trends that have tracked with and influenced the generations. My first day care was with five other kids in someone's basement. It was nice basement, the woman had gone all-out to do this right and we loved her and the girl who helped her but she wasn't even licensed I don't think. What were licenses?

Let me make really clear where that isn't going - this has nothing to do with sex here, alright? No "underage discussion" going on here.

What it has to do with is what eventually got called the phenomenon of latchkey kids. The two-career family. Suburban kids raised by single moms because the Boomer divorce rate went stratospheric. There weren't many structured resources for what two-job families or working mothers were supposed to do with the kids when we weren't at school. There wasn't even after-school soccer where I was. We were on our own and unsupervised and we made the most, or the worst out of it. Way way way too much drinking for sure.

We turned out okay.

It looks to me like most middle class kids lead more structured and supervised lives today than we did. It goes without saying that the biggest part of socializing for many is virtual. I guess it's an improvement, really.

 

[ElectricBlue]

[ETA] So, asked Himself Downstairs, who is five years older than I. He was a virgin until he was twenty. Did it with his fiancée in an honest to god Holiday Inn. And it's passing strange that we've never talked about that at all.

I know, Holiday Inn, right? Awkward conversation topic. I mean, it's not the Hyatt, is it?

 

[TadOverdon]

I don't know much about Holiday. Are they still around? I've stayed in a lot of hotels and motels but I don't think I've stayed in a Holiday Inn. So I think of it as a place you hear mentioned in sitcoms, like Howard Johnson's.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't know much about Holiday. Are they still around? I've stayed in a lot of hotels and motels but I don't think I've stayed in a Holiday Inn. So I think of it as a place you hear mentioned in sitcoms, like Howard Johnson's.

They're around, at least out my way.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I've been to at least two weddings in Holiday Inns (one US, one UK). Excellent for a group focusing on convenience for the guests and lots of alcohol.

The UK age of consent is 16 and stats for years have been around 1/3 of kids having sex by 16 (declining in last couple decades), 1/3 between 16 and 18, 1/3 later (particularly boys, and numbers growing). Let's face it, sixth-formers (age 16-18) can't shag their teachers like they used to.

When I was growing up, the age of consent for gay sex was 21 which probably didn't affect much as gay pubs and clubs didn't care how implausible your ID was, though general homophobic culture affected opportunities.

Several of my friends (mainly male) didn't have sex until their 20s but made up for lost time.

It's the stories where the 18yo has never had alcohol that I find really implausible, but I suppose that might be the case in younger generations and states where even drinking at home is illegal. They tend to be the same stories where the 18yo magically has a car, so a totally alien world to me.

 

[TadOverdon]

Yeah, it's worth mentioning that the eighteen-year-old virgins in a lot of porn have an accompanying naivete about sex in general that would be more fitting for The Donna Reed Show.

 

[KeithD]

Holiday Inn is a big chain, both in the United States and abroad. The ones outside the United States tend to be higher end than most of them in the United States. There are some resort-style Holiday Inns even in the States, though.

There are nearly 1,300 Holiday Inns worldwide. https://www.statista.com/statistics/223362/number-of-holiday-inn-hotels/

 

[SimonDoom]

Yeah, it's worth mentioning that the eighteen-year-old virgins in a lot of porn have an accompanying naivete about sex in general that would be more fitting for The Donna Reed Show.

That's true, but it's true of a lot of erotica. I have an erotica motto: "first time is best." And no, it's not a universal truth and there are countless great erotica stories that violate the concept, but I think it's a good concept, nonetheless.

Mom-son incest is best the first time mom and son have sex.

Anal is best when it's the first time someone has anal.

In an exhibitionist story, the first time someone gets naked in public is the best.

If someone is an old hand at doing kink X, then it's less thrilling than if they are new to it.

So it makes sense in a story to play up inexperience and naivete. It makes the erotic/dramatic story arc starker and sexier.

The act of crossing the boundary is part of what gives an erotica story its sizzle. Once the boundary is crossed and the activity becomes the norm, it's not as erotic anymore.

 

[SimonDoom]

Heck yes, Holiday Inn is still around. Its parent company is the fourth largest hotel/motel chain in America.

I have many fond memories of cheap motels. Getting snowed in and having to find a place at the last minute. Skeptically inspecting the bed sheets: had they really been cleaned before we got there? Going out in the hallway to get ice from the machine late at night. And does anyone remember "Tingling Fingers"? You'd put a coin in a slot by the bed and the bed would vibrate. What the hell was that? Holiday Inn was a lot better than some of the places I've stayed.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yeah, it's worth mentioning that the eighteen-year-old virgins in a lot of porn have an accompanying naivete about sex in general that would be more fitting for The Donna Reed Show.

My feeling is that when we write stories here about 18 year old virgins the readers picture them younger because especially when dealing with a readership that has sex on the brain they figure most had sex by 18...and come on, most of the characters are hot as hell and kind of easy

Especially in sibling incest because if you think on it any actual messing around with sibs would be at an earlier age where they're experiencing curiosity and the games of show you mine...by 18 or over they've had relationships, and many have had sex so that they wouldn't be the first time lovers many stories show them as...so again I think in the readers mind 18 year old virgin is probably more like 16

But we have no control over interpretation

 

[Comshaw]

To which you've brought back the topic of underage with a suggestion that "everyone's done it before 18." Well, no they haven't, and it's not implausible if they haven't.

I go back to something that amuses me--that when I'm challenged on plausibility in a story it's most often for one of the few elements of the story that actually happened. The example I give is that I have a story about an Amish honeymooning couple arriving for a Caribbean cruise in Amish style, letting loose during the cruise, and leaving in Amish style. I got called on that, for one thing, because, it was claimed, "The Amish don't go on cruises." Well, the story was written because I went on a cruise, watched an Amish honeymoon couple arrive on the ship dressed Amish, watched them let loose on the cruise, and watched them leave the ship in Amish dress. I know Amish when I see them.

Were they Amish or Mennonite? The two dress pretty much the same but have vastly different mores and standards. In fact, Mennonites have several different sects that vary widely on such things also.

The most liberal sects of the Mennonites would go on a cruise as a matter of course. The Amish would do it if the couple was engaging in Rumspringa (a time out from the Amish rules and religion specifically for teens).

Anyway, just a question. you were the one who saw them so You have more of a feel for who they were than someone reading a brief description of it.


Comshaw