Should I italicize...

[GinnyPPC]

So in my series Catering Girl, Jennifer takes a job with a tug boat company. Should the names of the tugs be italicized when mentioned?

 

[KeithD]

Yes, ship titles are italicized. (A naval vessel with a designator such as HMS, SS, or USS has only the vessel title italicized--e.g., HMS Valiant) At least in American style. (Chicago Manual of Style 16, 8.115)

 

[GinnyPPC]

Yes, ship titles are italicized. (A naval vessel with a designator such as HMS, SS, or USS has only the vessel title italicized--e.g., HMS Valiant) At least in American style. (Chicago Manual of Style 16, 8.115)

Thank you KeithD.

 

[SamScribble]

Yes, ship titles are italicized. (A naval vessel with a designator such as HMS, SS, or USS has only the vessel title italicized--e.g., HMS Valiant) At least in American style. (Chicago Manual of Style 16, 8.115)

UK too. (The Oxford Dictionary for Writer and Editors)

 

[SimonDoom]

Should? Yes, I suppose, to conform to standard publishing style. But you don't have to.

I don't use italics, ever, for anything, in Literotica stories. Italics do not show up in the Literotica app on phones. I use minimalistic formatting so the story will appear the same regardless of the platform on which someone reads the story.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Should? Yes, I suppose, to conform to standard publishing style. But you don't have to.

I don't use italics, ever, for anything, in Literotica stories. Italics do not show up in the Literotica app on phones. I use minimalistic formatting so the story will appear the same regardless of the platform on which someone reads the story.

Agree. I don't think I've read any history where ship names are italicized - and I'm a fan of naval history (eg: the Battle of Jutland, and the Japanese sinking two Russian fleets in the early 1900s).

 

[KeithD]

Agree. I don't think I've read any history where ship names are italicized - and I'm a fan of naval history (eg: the Battle of Jutland, and the Japanese sinking two Russian fleets in the early 1900s).

Oh, good lord. What is it with these half-baked "editors"? I cited the American style authority and Sam cited the UK style authority.

Do you really think you're giving the OP a good response by citing unfounded opinion--especially after good guidance, with citation, was given? You really think that's helpful?

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Oh, good lord. What is it with these half-baked "editors"? I cited the American style authority and Sam cited the UK style authority.

Do you really think you're giving the OP a good response by citing unfounded opinion--especially after good guidance, with citation, was given? You really think that's helpful?

There is no such thing as 'the UK style authority'. I've been writing for work for 25 years and teaching English and I've never even heard of that book before. If your publisher uses that book as jts style guide, then follow it. Otherwise you might choose to follow the Guardian style guide, or various others which may exist in various sectors.

You might as well ask for 'the' document of the UK Constitution...

If just writing for Lit, do what you like, just be consistent.

 

[KeithD]

There is no such thing as 'the UK style authority'. I've been writing for work for 25 years and teaching English and I've never even heard of that book before. If your publisher uses that book as jts style guide, then follow it. Otherwise you might choose to follow the Guardian style guide, or various others which may exist in various sectors.

You might as well ask for 'the' document of the UK Constitution...

If just writing for Lit, do what you like, just be consistent.

Amateurish bullshit. UK publishers use standard authorities just as American publishers do. They don't let authors just willy-nilly render copy anyway they like.

I didn't cite a UK authority--SamS did. I cited an American style authority which jolly well IS the American publishing style authority.

You half-baked "editors" are leading people asking for help here astray.

 

[SimonDoom]

Oh, good lord. What is it with these half-baked "editors"? I cited the American style authority and Sam cited the UK style authority.

Do you really think you're giving the OP a good response by citing unfounded opinion--especially after good guidance, with citation, was given? You really think that's helpful?

Hold on. I think you're overreacting. There are two different issues here. One is whether in mainstream publishing putting ship names in Italics is proper. Clearly, it is. I have read many books on war and naval battles and to refresh my memory I pulled a few off the shelf to confirm -- and yes, in every single one the ship names were put in italics. All the books I referred to were written by American authors.

But that's not a reason to feel obligated to do so at Literotica. I don't use italics for anything in Literotica stories, partly because I'm lazy, partly because I don't really like looking at italics, and partly because even if I did it wouldn't show up in the App version of the Site on people's phones. That's a perfectly legitimate basis for not using italics, even if one concedes that it is done in mainstream publishing.

 

[KeithD]

Hold on. I think you're overreacting. There are two different issues here. One is whether in mainstream publishing putting ship names in Italics is proper. Clearly, it is. I have read many books on war and naval battles and to refresh my memory I pulled a few off the shelf to confirm -- and yes, in every single one the ship names were put in italics. All the books I referred to were written by American authors.

I thought your post was OK. Yes, I think it's fine to be looser here at Literotica than in the publishing world. But your post was followed up by one questioning a correct and doubly cited answer to the question that was asked, which was followed up by an inane assertion on how publishing works. I don't think it's overreacting to slam disinformation given to a question on what is best practice. Folks asking best practice questions here deserve not to be led down false garden paths by writers who know just enough about publishing to be a danger to themselves and others.

 

[SamScribble]

I've been writing for work for 25 years and teaching English and I've never even heard of that book before. If your publisher uses that book as jts style guide, then follow it. Otherwise you might choose to follow the Guardian style guide, or various others which may exist in various sectors.

Fair enough. Although I am a little surprised that you have never heard of The Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors. It has been widely used since the early 1980s. Two of the (large) publishers for whom I write use it as their bible. A third publisher has its own 'style guide' - which can be purchased 'from most good bookshops' (as they say).

Perhaps next time, I should think twice before offering well-intentioned advice.

 

[NotWise]

Fair enough. Although I am a little surprised that you have never heard of The Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors. It has been widely used since the early 1980s. Two of the (large) publishers for whom I write use it as their bible. A third publisher has its own 'style guide' - which can be purchased 'from most good bookshops' (as they say).

Perhaps next time, I should think twice before offering well-intentioned advice.

It took me about five seconds on Google to find other people recommending the Oxford guide at the best overall style guide for UK English -- equivalent to the Chicago Manual of Style. Of course, there are other style guides for other publications, just as there are here.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Perhaps next time, I should think twice before offering well-intentioned advice.

Your advice, and your reaction to its reception, is always given with courtesy, Sam. My point was only that many editors and publishers (mostly British, the histories I read) don't follow these master style guides. And as Simon notes, we're publishing erotica on an internet website, we're not talking about print books; and we're accommodating customers who use devices that don't reproduce italics and bold fonts at all. Perhaps those folk aren't allowed to read about ships? I don't know. I always thought the clue that MV BoatyMcBoatFace was a ship was the 'MV', not the italics.

I'm neither the editor nor publisher of those histories, I'm merely reporting what I have read. That doesn't make me an expert, but it doesn't make me wrong, either. And we're all allowed opinions, even opinionated ones, even on an internet forum. There are some who don't seem to accept that, but there you are.

Carry on .

 

[KeithD]

You're posting what you claim to have read. I don't believe you are giving a true reflection of what there is in the publishing world to be read. I believe most publishers follow the standard custom on rendering vessel titles.

Is calling folks on spinning false narratives they are just making up less polite than spinning the false narratives that give fellow writers disinformation to begin with?

 

[XerXesXu]

If just writing for Lit, do what you like, just be consistent.

Consistency is the pith and essence of style.

Style guides were introduced for a reason - to introduce consistency across multi-contributor platforms such as newspapers an magazines - because that fulfilled the expectations of readers, and the better you fulfil their expectations, the more easy it is to sell. Publishing houses adopted house styles, house styles coalesced into generic Style Guides and - most importantly - English Teachers and Literary Agents internalised them.

If you dream of being adopted by a Literary Agent and seeing your work in print you'll need to conform to the expectations of Literary Agents - if you deviate, more than a little, from the generic styles, half way down page one they'll assume you have yet to master your craft and move on to the next.

Style isn't the only constraint. I use words like Fuck and Shit a lot. Basically, I write Romance. Readers of romance, by and large, do not find these terms romantic. In anything conceived of as possibly commercial I don't use them. By a literary whack-a-mole effect they disappear from 'commercial' stuff and reappear on Lit. It hurts me to do that, but if you want to work in print you must conform to the nitpicking, sub-artistic Literary Agents and public.

Style Guides cramp my style, I like to experiment and be creative, and my style is part of my creativity, that's why I publish on Lit. On Lit, style is a knife fight - The rules iz there iz no rules. Personally, I find many traditional style conventions redundant and limiting - that's a war I won't win with Literary Agents and the print reading public.

I use Lit to be obscene and creative, but even within a single act of creativity you must be consistent, be bound by your own rules, otherwise you risk appearing obscene, creative and illiterate.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Your advice, and your reaction to its reception, is always given with courtesy, Sam. My point was only that many editors and publishers (mostly British, the histories I read) don't follow these master style guides. And as Simon notes, we're publishing erotica on an internet website, we're not talking about print books; and we're accommodating customers who use devices that don't reproduce italics and bold fonts at all. Perhaps those folk aren't allowed to read about ships? I don't know. I always thought the clue that MV BoatyMcBoatFace was a ship was the 'MV', not the italics.

I'm neither the editor nor publisher of those histories, I'm merely reporting what I have read. That doesn't make me an expert, but it doesn't make me wrong, either. And we're all allowed opinions, even opinionated ones, even on an internet forum. There are some who don't seem to accept that, but there you are.

Carry on .

My belief (possibly wrong; such things have been known) is that the UK has a wide variety of style guides and most publications will have their own (so the ones I've paid most attention to are Nature, some similar journals, the Guardian which was the style guide of Blair's government, and the BBC). In the USA there's ones with a bigger chunk of the market as it were, Chicago and there's Strunk & White, the latter being roughly equivalent to Fowler's Modern English Usage which I was taught to use at school, but by the time I started work it was considered very out of date.

Boaty McBoatface doesn't get initials because it's an autonomous submersible, not a boat. Claim to fame: I've met Boaty and had my photo taken with it.
It's been launched from the RRS James Clark Ross and now lives on the RRS Sir David Attenborough, along with a few dozen other submersibles of what's is known as the Boaty sub-class. Not italicising as the buttons are too small on my phone, though I might in a published story.

 

[NotWise]

My belief (possibly wrong; such things have been known) is that the UK has a wide variety of style guides and most publications will have their own (so the ones I've paid most attention to are Nature, some similar journals, the Guardian which was the style guide of Blair's government, and the BBC). In the USA there's ones with a bigger chunk of the market as it were, Chicago and there's Strunk & White, the latter being roughly equivalent to Fowler's Modern English Usage which I was taught to use at school, but by the time I started work it was considered very out of date.

Boaty McBoatface doesn't get initials because it's an autonomous submersible, not a boat. Claim to fame: I've met Boaty and had my photo taken with it.
It's been launched from the RRS James Clark Ross and now lives on the RRS Sir David Attenborough, along with a few dozen other submersibles of what's is known as the Boaty sub-class. Not italicising as the buttons are too small on my phone, though I might in a published story.

Strunk & White is a little handbook for students. It has some clever pointers, but it's outdated and not much of a style guide.

 

[KeithD]

Strunk and White is for American high school themes (very useful basic guide), not commercial fiction.