soflabbwlvr
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The possessive form of Lucas is Lucas's. Correct? Or is it Lucas'?
I'm drawing a blank.
I'm drawing a blank.
Stupid grammer question
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Kumquatqueen
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Either. It's a matter of style rather than grammar. Some style guides suggest s's only for words of one syllable (St James's Park).
soflabbwlvr
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Thank you Kumkquatqueen and Keith. The important thing, I suppose, is to be consistent.
SimonDoom
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Most style and grammar (note: it's grammar, not grammer) guides will tell you to add an apostrophe and and s after a singular noun, regardless whether it ends in "s" or not. There are a few exceptions, but they would not apply to the example you gave. The Chicago Manual of Style, the most commonly accepted guide for published fiction in the US, recommends adding an apostrophe + s.
Think about how you would pronounce the example you gave if you spoke it out loud. You would say, "I shook LOO-kas-ez hand." You wouldn't say, "I shook LOO-kaz hand" or "I shook LOO-kas hand." Adding an apostrophe + s after a noun ending in "s" conforms the way it's written to the way it's usually spoken.
By the way, it's a very good question -- not at all a stupid question. People wonder about this all the time.
Think about how you would pronounce the example you gave if you spoke it out loud. You would say, "I shook LOO-kas-ez hand." You wouldn't say, "I shook LOO-kaz hand" or "I shook LOO-kas hand." Adding an apostrophe + s after a noun ending in "s" conforms the way it's written to the way it's usually spoken.
By the way, it's a very good question -- not at all a stupid question. People wonder about this all the time.
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Haulover
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Lucas's.
XerXesXu
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I was taught Lucas', and to pronounce it Lucas'. Lucas's sounds very awkward. But the answer is - choose the guide which gives the answer you want.
As the saying goes, 'The great thing about standards is there are so many to choose from.'
KeithD
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Here, yes, if you want. In the publishing world, no, there aren't that many variations. (and there aren't on this point either. It just the authorities have vacillated within the last two decades, so you'll see it in print two ways.) It just depends on where you want to exist in your writing life and how much you want it to be about you rather than you and the reader. When/if you get the publishing world involved, you're going to find out that the reader/buyer is more important than you are unless you've struck writing gold with your own style. That happens a lot less than you might imagine.
mynameisben
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I think Lucas should legally change his name to Lucat and avoid all the controversy.
Ben
Ben
KeithD
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Probably. More than once I've taken a look at a character's name that I chose and thought, "Oh, shit, another name ending with a 's'."
Haulover
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This is correct
davion2308
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For the singular
If it's singular, like Lucas is a one-man show, you can go with Lucas's whatever. If it's a plural possessive, say a last name or a bar/restaurant name or something like that, you'd go Lucas'
But that's me being picky. Grammar doesn't usually through me off when it's the ticky-tacky stuff.
If it's singular, like Lucas is a one-man show, you can go with Lucas's whatever. If it's a plural possessive, say a last name or a bar/restaurant name or something like that, you'd go Lucas'
But that's me being picky. Grammar doesn't usually through me off when it's the ticky-tacky stuff.
KeithD
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jaF0
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XerXesXu
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Grammar covers a lot of sins, all of which are contained in spoken language. Punctuation is a feature of written language, technically, style.
SimonDoom
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So, you were taught to say (pronounce it out):
I met Lucas Aunt.
As opposed to:
I met Lucasez Aunt.
If that's the way you were taught, I believe you, but that sounds extremely weird to me. I don't know anybody who talks that way. It sounds bizarre.
A crucial point here is that apostrophe + s has a "Z" sound.
So for example, it would be one thing if you asked how to punctuate:
"Miles's dog"
Because the name "Miles" ends in an "S" that is pronounced likes a "Z". When you add apostrophe +Z then you have two back to back Z sounds: "Milez ez." I personally think that's the better way, but I can understand a difference of opinion.
But Lucas ends in an "es" sound. When you sound out "Lucas'" there's no "Z" sound, so it doesn't sound like a possessive. I can't understand talking that way or writing that way. Maybe some people do. I just don't know them.
KeithD
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It's sort of fun that some think that what they were taught in writing high school themes is what's good in writing commercial fiction. It's like they never really read novels at all--at least not well enough to distinguish them from high school themes.
Some also don't seem to be able to realize that, although loose enough to accommodate creativity, fiction writing isn't really an author's free-for-all. The author isn't the only one in the equation. If the reader doesn't understand what's being done--or if it's so individualistic as to hamper the flow of the read--it's pretty worthless. And there ARE established authorities.
Some also don't seem to be able to realize that, although loose enough to accommodate creativity, fiction writing isn't really an author's free-for-all. The author isn't the only one in the equation. If the reader doesn't understand what's being done--or if it's so individualistic as to hamper the flow of the read--it's pretty worthless. And there ARE established authorities.
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XerXesXu
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You say z'z, I'd say s's, but I don't, I say s. z and s are different phonemes (pronounce them being aware of tongue and palate)
It's a matter of euphony, an aesthetic property of the spoken language. If you don't find s's or z'z or s'z ugly you will offend my ear, but I shed the offence like water off a ducks back.
But I'd be interested in you opinion on The Great Apostrophe Debate. Do you think it should be abolished as the great sages advise, since it signifies nothing and confuses children?
SamScribble
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XerXesXu
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Hmmmmm.....answering questions with questions.
https://www.killtheapostrophe.com/
I still can't cut and paste hyperlinks, but that would be a great place to begin informing yourself.
Shit - now I can, the Gods are on my side today.
I'll continue to use them, I'm old and concrastinate.
But what about the kids? Their writing is punctuated with emojis and worse. All that will have to be digested, analysed, organised and mandated by the Chicago Style Guide in due course, so people can communicate on screens
XerXesXu
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Thank you, Ben. At last a voice of reason.
I think Ben is the guy who takes away the punch-bowl before the party gets going.
SamScribble
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I believe purple signifies greatness in some cultures. Perhaps purple sages. Add some finely-chopped red onion, some soft bread crumbs, and a beaten egg to make an excellent stuffing for chicken.
