Glutton for punishment?

[IrisAlthea]

Based on something in another thread, I got curious about what you think and feel about punishment. Is it something you like to include in your dynamic and if so, how?

Do you think about it as hot fun or as strict discipline, behaviour modification or something else entirely?

What is it about punishment that makes it interesting to you? Is it a reason for giving/recieving pain, a way to establish a dynamic, fun roleplay, catharsis...?

Are there times when you feel that a punishment should be avoided or could be problematic for the relationship?

Would love to hear your thoughts?

 

[77fbird400]

Based on something in another thread, I got curious about what you think and feel about punishment. Is it something you like to include in your dynamic and if so, how?

Do you think about it as hot fun or as strict discipline, behaviour modification or something else entirely?

What is it about punishment that makes it interesting to you? Is it a reason for giving/recieving pain, a way to establish a dynamic, fun roleplay, catharsis...?

Are there times when you feel that a punishment should be avoided or could be problematic for the relationship?

Would love to hear your thoughts?

For my wife and I, punishment in the form of spanking is not a punishment at all, it's erotic pleasure. It is the same as holding her wrists while forcibly taking her. I've noticed many years ago (14+) now that her orgasms and therefore pleasure are greatly intensified by this type of sex.

She is not willing to spank me unfortunately, but she inflicts pain on me by biting my chest which leaves a hickey mark and my favorite is pinching the fleshy back of my upper arm. Try to pinch that part, it hurts like hell. Imagine her taking a handful of flesh and clamping down on it. Ouch! It makes me sex her harder the more she inflect pain on me. Kind of like whipping a horse?

Why pain? Because it's wrong, taboo and nasty therefore exciting. Imagine enjoying a great pasta meal. I mean, it's really good! Then add hot sauce. So much better! Now imagine adding tabs of hot sauce in random places in your pasta plate and not knowing when you're going to hit a hot spot, now your savoury dish is a whole lot more fun to eat!

 

[seela]

Based on something in another thread, I got curious about what you think and feel about punishment. Is it something you like to include in your dynamic and if so, how?

Do you think about it as hot fun or as strict discipline, behaviour modification or something else entirely?

What is it about punishment that makes it interesting to you? Is it a reason for giving/recieving pain, a way to establish a dynamic, fun roleplay, catharsis...?

Are there times when you feel that a punishment should be avoided or could be problematic for the relationship?

Would love to hear your thoughts?

Okay, a few quick thoughts...

I'm more about doing things to please than doing things to avoid punishment, so in that way punishment hasn't ever played a huge role in my relationships. At the same time I'm also all about consequences, but consequences don't necessarily equate punishment. It just means having to live with the outcome of what I've done.

I don't respond very well to being punished if I've tried my hardest and the thing simply was out of my capability. It makes me feel bad and like I'm a huge disappointment, it takes a lot of effort on my part to not give in to the negative thoughts during those moments. What's more helpful is to figure out what went wrong and why and how the thing can be improved so that I can avoid messing up the next time. At times I can get a little lazy and complacent and not believe in myself enough to even really bother trying my hardest and then some sort of a punishment does sometimes work. Not always though, depends on the issue. My fear of failure can be a crippling thing, but it's also an excelent source of play material.

I've often wondered if a punishment dynamic would work to fix some real issues in a relationship (as in not sex play related) and if it really could be used to modify behavior if the recipient of the punishment wasn't willing to change. Somehow I find it difficult to imagine it working in the long run, but then again, not all relationships and D/s dynamics are similar. I'd be very curious to hear if someone has an example.

I'll be back with something more coherent when I'm less tipsy.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I will do a lot to avoid punishment. My submission is all about serving and pleasing. I don’t ever want to disappoint. This was a little rough with my current partner early on as he wanted me to be bratty, a bad girl, someone who needed punished. We really had to talk through it as that is soooooo hard for me. Spank me if you want to spank me, but do it for erotic reasons, because you want to, not because I’m bad.

 

[delphi604]

Based on something in another thread, I got curious about what you think and feel about punishment. Is it something you like to include in your dynamic and if so, how?

Do you think about it as hot fun or as strict discipline, behaviour modification or something else entirely?

What is it about punishment that makes it interesting to you? Is it a reason for giving/recieving pain, a way to establish a dynamic, fun roleplay, catharsis...?

Are there times when you feel that a punishment should be avoided or could be problematic for the relationship?

Would love to hear your thoughts?

For me, pain is essential. It puts the domme in complete control and makes me her plaything that she can use as she desires. The vulnerability is part of the high.

 

[77fbird400]

My wife is a very chatty and social woman. That is part of the reason I usually sleep in a separate bedroom. She just doesn't shut up! We are extremely affectionate to each other and we show it. She requires it each day throughout the day. If I want to punish her for real, I will ignore her and withhold my affection and approval.

That would be a genuine punishment, no for play. I have never done that to her, I would never do that to her. I fear it may cause irreparable emotional damage.

We are new to the realm of dominance and submission. But rough sex, bondage, BDSM outside of D/s play is common for us for well over 10 years. Appropriate and accepted sexual punishment for her would include things she hates but will do: ball gags, pulling her arms tightly upwards on the ceiling hook, spreader bar at max width. Recently I learned that she doesn't like holding a slave position for a period of time. She also hates it when I command her to not talk during sex. She hates those things!

 

[seela]

I will do a lot to avoid punishment. My submission is all about serving and pleasing. I don’t ever want to disappoint. This was a little rough with my current partner early on as he wanted me to be bratty, a bad girl, someone who needed punished. We really had to talk through it as that is soooooo hard for me. Spank me if you want to spank me, but do it for erotic reasons, because you want to, not because I’m bad.

I can relate. How did you approach the topic? Was it difficult to get him to see the situation from your point of view? Was it difficult for him to hurt you if you didn't "give him a reason" or was it just the role play aspect of it that appealed to him?

Back in the day, I used to think that I'd have to screw up and act like a bad girl to get a spanking or for it to be legit D/s. And I was, am, so bad at any sort of role play that my bad girl act was just completely cringe worthy. I'm about 80% certain I was once dumped because of the cringeyness of my trying to be a bad girl. Good thing I realized those two things can be separate - spanking and pain in general doesn't have to be a punishment.

Many of the answers here on this thread seem to equate pain with punishment, but punishment doesn't have to be painful and pain doesn't have to be a punishment. Just a reminder.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Punishment is not the thing for us. Only in a goofy, joking way in respons to the constant and general smartassery in this house.

Okay, a few quick thoughts...

I'm more about doing things to please than doing things to avoid punishment, so in that way punishment hasn't ever played a huge role in my relationships. At the same time I'm also all about consequences, but consequences don't necessarily equate punishment. It just means having to live with the outcome of what I've done.

Yes, consequences and responsibility is different. For me it is always going to be part of any adult relationship regardless of dynamic.

I don't respond very well to being punished if I've tried my hardest and the thing simply was out of my capability. It makes me feel bad and like I'm a huge disappointment, it takes a lot of effort on my part to not give in to the negative thoughts during those moments. What's more helpful is to figure out what went wrong and why and how the thing can be improved so that I can avoid messing up the next time. At times I can get a little lazy and complacent and not believe in myself enough to even really bother trying my hardest and then some sort of a punishment does sometimes work. Not always though, depends on the issue. My fear of failure can be a crippling thing, but it's also an excelent source of play material.

This is what I was thinking about when I wrote the op.
As you said, there is fun to be had in this territory, but there is also this special flavour that comes with those pesky consequences
For me, if you make me feel like I’m never going to be good enough, that you really are out to tear me down, there are heavy fire doors that are going to slam shut. To paraphrase, I’m going to reject your judgement and substitute my own and things will never be the same again.

I've often wondered if a punishment dynamic would work to fix some real issues in a relationship (as in not sex play related) and if it really could be used to modify behavior if the recipient of the punishment wasn't willing to change. Somehow I find it difficult to imagine it working in the long run, but then again, not all relationships and D/s dynamics are similar. I'd be very curious to hear if someone has an example.

I'll be back with something more coherent when I'm less tipsy.

With some issues I think it might. Pain can be cathartic.
I think it could go rather wrong too though. If there is still resentment and anger, letting them out the right amount is a pretty big ask.

I have sometimes wished it could work like some kind of reset button.
I’m not so sure it would work like that if I were the offended party though. Forgiveness for me can take time and has more to do with what goes on with me, than what the ”offender” does. Perhaps after I had forgiven if they still felt guilt?

I will do a lot to avoid punishment. My submission is all about serving and pleasing. I don’t ever want to disappoint. This was a little rough with my current partner early on as he wanted me to be bratty, a bad girl, someone who needed punished. We really had to talk through it as that is soooooo hard for me. Spank me if you want to spank me, but do it for erotic reasons, because you want to, not because I’m bad.

Yes, because is quite enough as a reason. No need to make anything up.

 

[MeekMe]

Based on something in another thread, I got curious about what you think and feel about punishment. Is it something you like to include in your dynamic and if so, how?

I’ve answered other threads on this topic and feel kind of bad putting a damper on things with my negative views of punishment. I don’t like to include it, but I’m open to it in certain limited circumstances.

Do you think about it as hot fun or as strict discipline, behaviour modification or something else entirely?

I have already had my behavior modified with punishment as a young person to poor, uneducated parents who we not monsters out of being evil but made poor choices and sent four children into the world severely mentally damaged and having at least one unable to survive as a fully functioning adult on their own.

I don’t do behavior modification through punishment. Can it be hot? In a funishment kind of way, but that also hits too close to home because it implies “punishment for wrong doing” but really has no basis in actually punishing someone which feels too much like the abuse (it’s hard to call it that but I think it needs to be said) I suffered due to unclear instructions and the looming shadow over your shoulder that screams at you for never doing anything right.

I’m always a little put off by the sometimes over-glorification of punishment in d/s. I know my views come from a dark place, but there are so many serious repercussions that can come from “punishment.”

What is it about punishment that makes it interesting to you? Is it a reason for giving/recieving pain, a way to establish a dynamic, fun roleplay, catharsis...?

I’m interested in some aspects of pain, but I’d rather explore sensations willingly instead of it being forced through punishment (which does not need to be physical pain).

Are there times when you feel that a punishment should be avoided or could be problematic for the relationship?

Because of my personal history, it would become problematic.

A good example of this becoming an issue from personal experience? Being instructed to create an item that is then used as a threat as a means of punishment only for punishment not being needed because no fuckups big enough (maybe?) and then being told to use the implement you’ve been told repeatedly is for punishment, is now going to be used in a non-punishment situation. So. Fucking. Confusing. At the time I didn’t understand why I felt so unhappy about the whole thing. I get it now.

The following is NOT because he was mean or bad or didn’t care. More of a communication issue and a good portion of that from me because I either didn’t have the capabilities to work through it or just couldn’t comprehend the situation due to past experiences.

Him: *This* is for punishment.
Me: Ok [nervous but with no intentions of ever being punished.]
Him: remember that thing? Still for punishment.
Me: Ok [probably never going to need to worry about that punishment.]
Him: get the *Thing* I’ve been telling you is for punishment and use it.
Me: Ok [I didn’t do anything to get punished? He didn’t say this was for punishment. It seems like I’m to use this for Not? punishment? ... I’m not being punished but I feel REALLY bad about using this object because I was repeatedly told it would be used for punishment.]

Certainly a learning experience for me that has in a way helped me to understand and even talk through my issues with it.

Would love to hear your thoughts?

I actually think most people prefer not to hear these thoughts from me because it really kills the sexy vibe.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I can relate. How did you approach the topic? Was it difficult to get him to see the situation from your point of view? Was it difficult for him to hurt you if you didn't "give him a reason" or was it just the role play aspect of it that appealed to him?

Back in the day, I used to think that I'd have to screw up and act like a bad girl to get a spanking or for it to be legit D/s. And I was, am, so bad at any sort of role play that my bad girl act was just completely cringe worthy. I'm about 80% certain I was once dumped because of the cringeyness of my trying to be a bad girl. Good thing I realized those two things can be separate - spanking and pain in general doesn't have to be a punishment.

Many of the answers here on this thread seem to equate pain with punishment, but punishment doesn't have to be painful and pain doesn't have to be a punishment. Just a reminder.

At first, this would just come up while we were being intimate and it was playful, he would ask me how I’d been a bad girl etc. I would respond with something like “I’m not a bad girl” or “I’m a good girl.” Outside of play I brought it up, and learned he clearly had a thing for brats. I clearly had a thing to NOT be a brat. We laughed about how that was certainly not going to work for us. The conversation was light, but meaningful. He’s mainly a rigger and bondage kinda Dom (like a dangerous Boy Scout...yum!), anyway, so this didn’t make us incompatible. Punishment is just not part of our dynamic.

 

[ultramarineblue]

Pain used for fun is great. Pain used for punishment feels awful. I'm not the type to act out for punishment. Ultimately I want to do my best to please. I want to make my partner happy.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Based on something in another thread, I got curious about what you think and feel about punishment. Is it something you like to include in your dynamic and if so, how?

Do you think about it as hot fun or as strict discipline, behaviour modification or something else entirely?

What is it about punishment that makes it interesting to you? Is it a reason for giving/recieving pain, a way to establish a dynamic, fun roleplay, catharsis...?

Are there times when you feel that a punishment should be avoided or could be problematic for the relationship?

Would love to hear your thoughts?

My dynamics include punishment. But true punishment should only be used as a (agreed and negotiated) means of correcting truly bad or inappropriate behavior. If is is used otherwise it becomes abuse.

Many times people confuse punishment and funishment. Funishment is when you are playing and you do things that may seem to be punishment to those looking in.. but are in fact those things that are enjoyable for the two involved. To a submissive who enjoys having pain inflicted upon them... even more so. For myself, I do not enjoy inflecting pain, however, I will do so it it is something my sub needs/craves. I can enjoy other aspects of the interaction while giving her what she needs/wants.

The other thing that is most often misunderstood about true punishment is this: effective punishment is unique to the sub in question. What might be effective for one, may not be effective for another.

Example. If your submissive enjoys (for any number of reasons) pain. Why would you think that spanking or any other method of using pain as punishment would be an effective deterrent to bad behavior? It wont. spanking a pain slut will only teach her that acting out will get her what she craves... and will make her into a brat. i.e a person who will act inappropriately to get you to give her what she craves. Inexperienced Doms run into this a lot. To them, they think they are actually punishing the sub... but in reality it has become funishment... and they loose any effective authority. Which is why the dynamic exists to begin with. So the relationship erodes because while the sub is enjoying herself... she will soon realize that she isnt getting the structure she needs from the relationship and loose her respect for the Dom while the Dom realizes that He isnt being obeyed when he really needs to be... The structure exists to protect and care for the subs well being.

My wife/slave, to whom ive owned 14 years now. She enjoys certain levels of pain. So as described above would enjoy a good spanking... and it would NOT be effective as punishment. For HER, corner time... or other... more imaginative punishments are FAR more effective to discourage bad behavior. An experienced Dominant will learn the things that a sub dislikes with a passion.. and use those as punishment...and keep pain in the funishment tool box.

People enjoy pain for any number of reasons. I could write a book trying to detail them all in all honesty. Many times. They dont even know why... just that they do... and they want to feel that pain... while maintaining a safe lifestyle. Sometimes a sub will frenzy and not know where the safe line is to avoid crossing... that's when they nees a Dom or experienced Top to keep her from crossing that dangerous line.

This kind of dynamic is not restricted to the gender roles I used as examples. I just use the ones that are more natural for me A Female Dominatrix inflicting pain on men and women who crave it... is frankly much more accepted and palatable for most even.

I hope this helps explain some of how pain and control are used in a D/s or M/s dynamic. or even a DD/s

In addition, using the name for this post in retrospect. Being a Glutton for punishment. This can be a very serious issue and a dangerous one. This has NOTHING to do with the lifestyle or BDSM per say. There are those individuals who have a literal gluttony for pain. What I mean is they never want it to stop. Many times they feel guilt over some unresolved event or issue... and they feel they need to be punished... but they never absolve themselves so they cant resolve the guilt.

When a sub enjoys pain. They enjoy it and stop it at a point...they normally feel cleansed and move on until they feel the urge to enjoy it again. So a relatively safe cycle. They get their but nice a red... they may go into subspace, they feel amazing and they sleep it off... and after their butt gets all nice and healed they want more! But someone who has an unresolved issue or guilt... they never want to stop... and will keep pushing for more and more pain.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I’ve answered other threads on this topic and feel kind of bad putting a damper on things with my negative views of punishment. I don’t like to include it, but I’m open to it in certain limited circumstances.



I have already had my behavior modified with punishment as a young person to poor, uneducated parents who we not monsters out of being evil but made poor choices and sent four children into the world severely mentally damaged and having at least one unable to survive as a fully functioning adult on their own.

I don’t do behavior modification through punishment. Can it be hot? In a funishment kind of way, but that also hits too close to home because it implies “punishment for wrong doing” but really has no basis in actually punishing someone which feels too much like the abuse (it’s hard to call it that but I think it needs to be said) I suffered due to unclear instructions and the looming shadow over your shoulder that screams at you for never doing anything right.

I’m always a little put off by the sometimes over-glorification of punishment in d/s. I know my views come from a dark place, but there are so many serious repercussions that can come from “punishment.”



I’m interested in some aspects of pain, but I’d rather explore sensations willingly instead of it being forced through punishment (which does not need to be physical pain).



Because of my personal history, it would become problematic.

A good example of this becoming an issue from personal experience? Being instructed to create an item that is then used as a threat as a means of punishment only for punishment not being needed because no fuckups big enough (maybe?) and then being told to use the implement you’ve been told repeatedly is for punishment, is now going to be used in a non-punishment situation. So. Fucking. Confusing. At the time I didn’t understand why I felt so unhappy about the whole thing. I get it now.

The following is NOT because he was mean or bad or didn’t care. More of a communication issue and a good portion of that from me because I either didn’t have the capabilities to work through it or just couldn’t comprehend the situation due to past experiences.

Him: *This* is for punishment.
Me: Ok [nervous but with no intentions of ever being punished.]
Him: remember that thing? Still for punishment.
Me: Ok [probably never going to need to worry about that punishment.]
Him: get the *Thing* I’ve been telling you is for punishment and use it.
Me: Ok [I didn’t do anything to get punished? He didn’t say this was for punishment. It seems like I’m to use this for Not? punishment? ... I’m not being punished but I feel REALLY bad about using this object because I was repeatedly told it would be used for punishment.]

Certainly a learning experience for me that has in a way helped me to understand and even talk through my issues with it.



I actually think most people prefer not to hear these thoughts from me because it really kills the sexy vibe.

I do want to hear from you!

The fact that we can communicate and have all the best intent and still sometimes find that trip wire that we didn’t know was there, is a point that I think often gets lost.

 

[IrisAlthea]

At first, this would just come up while we were being intimate and it was playful, he would ask me how I’d been a bad girl etc. I would respond with something like “I’m not a bad girl” or “I’m a good girl.” Outside of play I brought it up, and learned he clearly had a thing for brats. I clearly had a thing to NOT be a brat. We laughed about how that was certainly not going to work for us. The conversation was light, but meaningful. He’s mainly a rigger and bondage kinda Dom (like a dangerous Boy Scout...yum!), anyway, so this didn’t make us incompatible. Punishment is just not part of our dynamic.

This made me smile, both at communicating around things that could become an issue but doesn’t have to be and at Dangerous Boy Scout.

My dynamics include punishment. But true punishment should only be used as a (agreed and negotiated) means of correcting truly bad or inappropriate behavior. If is is used otherwise it becomes abuse.

Many times people confuse punishment and funishment. Funishment is when you are playing and you do things that may seem to be punishment to those looking in.. but are in fact those things that are enjoyable for the two involved. To a submissive who enjoys having pain inflicted upon them... even more so. For myself, I do not enjoy inflecting pain, however, I will do so it it is something my sub needs/craves. I can enjoy other aspects of the interaction while giving her what she needs/wants.

The other thing that is most often misunderstood about true punishment is this: effective punishment is unique to the sub in question. What might be effective for one, may not be effective for another.

Example. If your submissive enjoys (for any number of reasons) pain. Why would you think that spanking or any other method of using pain as punishment would be an effective deterrent to bad behavior? It wont. spanking a pain slut will only teach her that acting out will get her what she craves... and will make her into a brat. i.e a person who will act inappropriately to get you to give her what she craves. Inexperienced Doms run into this a lot. To them, they think they are actually punishing the sub... but in reality it has become funishment... and they loose any effective authority. Which is why the dynamic exists to begin with. So the relationship erodes because while the sub is enjoying herself... she will soon realize that she isnt getting the structure she needs from the relationship and loose her respect for the Dom while the Dom realizes that He isnt being obeyed when he really needs to be... The structure exists to protect and care for the subs well being.

My wife/slave, to whom ive owned 14 years now. She enjoys certain levels of pain. So as described above would enjoy a good spanking... and it would NOT be effective as punishment. For HER, corner time... or other... more imaginative punishments are FAR more effective to discourage bad behavior. An experienced Dominant will learn the things that a sub dislikes with a passion.. and use those as punishment...and keep pain in the funishment tool box.

People enjoy pain for any number of reasons. I could write a book trying to detail them all in all honesty. Many times. They dont even know why... just that they do... and they want to feel that pain... while maintaining a safe lifestyle. Sometimes a sub will frenzy and not know where the safe line is to avoid crossing... that's when they nees a Dom or experienced Top to keep her from crossing that dangerous line.

This kind of dynamic is not restricted to the gender roles I used as examples. I just use the ones that are more natural for me A Female Dominatrix inflicting pain on men and women who crave it... is frankly much more accepted and palatable for most even.

I hope this helps explain some of how pain and control are used in a D/s or M/s dynamic. or even a DD/s

In addition, using the name for this post in retrospect. Being a Glutton for punishment. This can be a very serious issue and a dangerous one. This has NOTHING to do with the lifestyle or BDSM per say. There are those individuals who have a literal gluttony for pain. What I mean is they never want it to stop. Many times they feel guilt over some unresolved event or issue... and they feel they need to be punished... but they never absolve themselves so they cant resolve the guilt.

When a sub enjoys pain. They enjoy it and stop it at a point...they normally feel cleansed and move on until they feel the urge to enjoy it again. So a relatively safe cycle. They get their but nice a red... they may go into subspace, they feel amazing and they sleep it off... and after their butt gets all nice and healed they want more! But someone who has an unresolved issue or guilt... they never want to stop... and will keep pushing for more and more pain.

Yes, the title was just to be less boring than just Punishment but you are quite right - it can be a real issue.

As you said, what works is unique to the persons involved and to the chosen dynamic.

 

[wicked woman]

As some have commented you need to separate funishment from punishment.

It's my opinion that a lot of people don't understand that difference and end up either acting up trying to get 'punished' or setting unrealistic rules/demands, setting poorly explained/no expectations, or just arbitrarily deciding 'it' wasn't good enough as an excuse to punish. I don't and can't buy into this for me.

In a D/s relationship for me, the D has the option, at any time he chooses, to dole out what ever he wants, within the confines of what we've negotiated. If he wants to inflict pain, he does. If he wants me to bring him coffee and perform oral while he drinks it, I do. He's in charge and gets to decide. He doesn't need to make up some excuse about why I need to be punished to do what he wants to do. If I want something, I ask. I may or may not get my request. It's funishment. The acts may be the same but the affect on our relationship and how we function is not the same. Also, logically it makes no sense to me to punish someone with an action that the person enjoys. That's not the intent of punishment.

As a sub, I take my role to please my Dom seriously. I'm never going to purposely do something that I know will displease him. Do we have situations where something wasn't communicated as clearly as it could have been or something was misunderstood that ended up in his disappointment or where I just wasn't able to do something to the degree that he wished? Sure. We're both human. But the intent to displease and earn his disapproval is never there. When I've made my best attempt to please him and yet still failed, that is not a situation that requires punishment. I feel terrible knowing that I haven't been able to please him as he wished. I am my own worst enemy. I can be inconsolable sometimes. I don't need punishment to want to improve and do better. I don't need my behaviour modified. I need understanding, communication and love.

Part of our negotiations was a discussion around this funishment/punishment issue. At the time, I asked that any of my involuntary negative initial reactions would not be considered punishable offenses, having discovered that sometimes my initial response was automatically 'you've got to be kidding' or 'no way'. It was a gut reaction out of my mouth in a second. My 'outside' world creeping in. It wasn't really a disrespectful no. He agreed and that became part of our relationship.

I'm trying to think back to whether he's ever punished me. I can recall a few times where I didn't please him as he had hoped. Truthfully, I was more disappointed in myself that he was in me. I can recall communicating about the situation after, but I can't recall ever being punished. As for having funishment, I can fondly remember a lot of that.

Thanks for bringing up this topic. I personally, dislike when people confuse funishment with punishment, only because personally, I feel so horrible if I do anything that disappoints/displeases him and might require punishment and I like being honest about the funishment and not needing the games around it.

 

[Master_Doctor]

I couldnt agree more.

As some have commented you need to separate funishment from punishment.

It's my opinion that a lot of people don't understand that difference and end up either acting up trying to get 'punished' or setting unrealistic rules/demands, setting poorly explained/no expectations, or just arbitrarily deciding 'it' wasn't good enough as an excuse to punish. I don't and can't buy into this for me.

In a D/s relationship for me, the D has the option, at any time he chooses, to dole out what ever he wants, within the confines of what we've negotiated. If he wants to inflict pain, he does. If he wants me to bring him coffee and perform oral while he drinks it, I do. He's in charge and gets to decide. He doesn't need to make up some excuse about why I need to be punished to do what he wants to do. If I want something, I ask. I may or may not get my request. It's funishment. The acts may be the same but the affect on our relationship and how we function is not the same. Also, logically it makes no sense to me to punish someone with an action that the person enjoys. That's not the intent of punishment.

As a sub, I take my role to please my Dom seriously. I'm never going to purposely do something that I know will displease him. Do we have situations where something wasn't communicated as clearly as it could have been or something was misunderstood that ended up in his disappointment or where I just wasn't able to do something to the degree that he wished? Sure. We're both human. But the intent to displease and earn his disapproval is never there. When I've made my best attempt to please him and yet still failed, that is not a situation that requires punishment. I feel terrible knowing that I haven't been able to please him as he wished. I am my own worst enemy. I can be inconsolable sometimes. I don't need punishment to want to improve and do better. I don't need my behaviour modified. I need understanding, communication and love.

Part of our negotiations was a discussion around this funishment/punishment issue. At the time, I asked that any of my involuntary negative initial reactions would not be considered punishable offenses, having discovered that sometimes my initial response was automatically 'you've got to be kidding' or 'no way'. It was a gut reaction out of my mouth in a second. My 'outside' world creeping in. It wasn't really a disrespectful no. He agreed and that became part of our relationship.

I'm trying to think back to whether he's ever punished me. I can recall a few times where I didn't please him as he had hoped. Truthfully, I was more disappointed in myself that he was in me. I can recall communicating about the situation after, but I can't recall ever being punished. As for having funishment, I can fondly remember a lot of that.

Thanks for bringing up this topic. I personally, dislike when people confuse funishment with punishment, only because personally, I feel so horrible if I do anything that disappoints/displeases him and might require punishment and I like being honest about the funishment and not needing the games around it.

I think we agree on many points. I agree with you. I think one of the issues is that not everyone goes into a D/s balanced and reasonable. I of course am speaking about both sides of the slash. Not everyone is comfortable being honest (sadly) about their needs and expectations. Ive seen Sadistic Doms who (as I believe you hinted at) either blow mistakes way out of proportion or make up mistakes... any excuse to punish their subs... because they get off on it. An abusive attitude I would say readily.

On the other hand, ive seen subs who decide that they arent going to negotiate in good faith... because there isnt any fun in being honest and balanced. What they really want is any excuse to top from the bottom and hope they get the kind of attention they really want.

I agree with you completely. Be above board, Being in an honest relationship where all parties want a LTR that serves everyone involved. So your a Sadist, just be open about it... and as long as your sub is ok with it... then you dont have to make up reasons to inflict pain on someone who loves it. I think the biggest problem here is too many people want to play the game. Again, on both sides of the slash.

Few things impress and make a Dominant happy then a sub who puts their best foot forward to please him and is dedicated to that mindset. It makes him feel validated and wanted. While I always say that D type and s types are equal (as in one is not more important than the other) but different. Each has a different set of needs in order to be fulfilled.

 

[IrisAlthea]

As some have commented you need to separate funishment from punishment.

It's my opinion that a lot of people don't understand that difference and end up either acting up trying to get 'punished' or setting unrealistic rules/demands, setting poorly explained/no expectations, or just arbitrarily deciding 'it' wasn't good enough as an excuse to punish. I don't and can't buy into this for me.

In a D/s relationship for me, the D has the option, at any time he chooses, to dole out what ever he wants, within the confines of what we've negotiated. If he wants to inflict pain, he does. If he wants me to bring him coffee and perform oral while he drinks it, I do. He's in charge and gets to decide. He doesn't need to make up some excuse about why I need to be punished to do what he wants to do. If I want something, I ask. I may or may not get my request. It's funishment. The acts may be the same but the affect on our relationship and how we function is not the same. Also, logically it makes no sense to me to punish someone with an action that the person enjoys. That's not the intent of punishment.

As a sub, I take my role to please my Dom seriously. I'm never going to purposely do something that I know will displease him. Do we have situations where something wasn't communicated as clearly as it could have been or something was misunderstood that ended up in his disappointment or where I just wasn't able to do something to the degree that he wished? Sure. We're both human. But the intent to displease and earn his disapproval is never there. When I've made my best attempt to please him and yet still failed, that is not a situation that requires punishment. I feel terrible knowing that I haven't been able to please him as he wished. I am my own worst enemy. I can be inconsolable sometimes. I don't need punishment to want to improve and do better. I don't need my behaviour modified. I need understanding, communication and love.

Part of our negotiations was a discussion around this funishment/punishment issue. At the time, I asked that any of my involuntary negative initial reactions would not be considered punishable offenses, having discovered that sometimes my initial response was automatically 'you've got to be kidding' or 'no way'. It was a gut reaction out of my mouth in a second. My 'outside' world creeping in. It wasn't really a disrespectful no. He agreed and that became part of our relationship.

I'm trying to think back to whether he's ever punished me. I can recall a few times where I didn't please him as he had hoped. Truthfully, I was more disappointed in myself that he was in me. I can recall communicating about the situation after, but I can't recall ever being punished. As for having funishment, I can fondly remember a lot of that.

Thanks for bringing up this topic. I personally, dislike when people confuse funishment with punishment, only because personally, I feel so horrible if I do anything that disappoints/displeases him and might require punishment and I like being honest about the funishment and not needing the games around it.

Thank you for the thoughtful answer!

I think your point about being your own worst enemy is a pretty common theme for a lot of people.
With some a punishment can be a way to stop the circle of selfblame and for others it would just add to it. I think either way the secret is to communicate about what you are doing and why and to find people who are good fit for you.

I can get stuck in being disappointed in myself and fret a bit about it. The ”wipe the slate” thing for us is often that he will tell me that he is quite ok with the mistake but that he is starting to get really annoyed with the fretting about it. That can get me all ”So how about Zlatan and the national team then?” and it provides a bit of comic relief but it really does make me feel better.

I think we agree on many points. I agree with you. I think one of the issues is that not everyone goes into a D/s balanced and reasonable. I of course am speaking about both sides of the slash. Not everyone is comfortable being honest (sadly) about their needs and expectations. Ive seen Sadistic Doms who (as I believe you hinted at) either blow mistakes way out of proportion or make up mistakes... any excuse to punish their subs... because they get off on it. An abusive attitude I would say readily.

On the other hand, ive seen subs who decide that they arent going to negotiate in good faith... because there isnt any fun in being honest and balanced. What they really want is any excuse to top from the bottom and hope they get the kind of attention they really want.

I agree with you completely. Be above board, Being in an honest relationship where all parties want a LTR that serves everyone involved. So your a Sadist, just be open about it... and as long as your sub is ok with it... then you dont have to make up reasons to inflict pain on someone who loves it. I think the biggest problem here is too many people want to play the game. Again, on both sides of the slash.

Few things impress and make a Dominant happy then a sub who puts their best foot forward to please him and is dedicated to that mindset. It makes him feel validated and wanted. While I always say that D type and s types are equal (as in one is not more important than the other) but different. Each has a different set of needs in order to be fulfilled.

I think you can make a wide variety of dynamics work as long as you have self-awareness and honest and open communication. As long as that is in place and you have informed consent, from my point of view you can punish away for made up infractions to your hearts content for example.


On the other hand self-awareness, and honest, open communication is kind of black belt skills for any kind of relationship.
Luckily a lot of relationship issues are like a stew that you can tinker with over time. You do have to recognize when you have a souffle on your hands though and be careful.

 

[wicked woman]

Thank you for the thoughtful answer!

I think your point about being your own worst enemy is a pretty common theme for a lot of people.
With some a punishment can be a way to stop the circle of self blame and for others it would just add to it. I think either way the secret is to communicate about what you are doing and why and to find people who are good fit for you.

I can get stuck in being disappointed in myself and fret a bit about it. The ”wipe the slate” thing for us is often that he will tell me that he is quite ok with the mistake but that he is starting to get really annoyed with the fretting about it. That can get me all ”So how about Zlatan and the national team then?” and it provides a bit of comic relief but it really does make me feel better.

Ah, good point. I hadn't thought of someone needing to be punished to help them stop blaming themselves...to know everything was right again. It's foreign to me, but makes sense to my logical mind that it might help someone.

 

[wicked woman]

...

Few things impress and make a Dominant happy then a sub who puts their best foot forward to please him and is dedicated to that mindset. It makes him feel validated and wanted. While I always say that D type and s types are equal (as in one is not more important than the other) but different. Each has a different set of needs in order to be fulfilled.

Glad you agree.

Thanks for the comment that I've put in bold. I always appreciate a glimpse into a Dom's mind/feelings.

 

[Payne_Hall]

I had to work up the nerve to answer because shyness and, also, it will be a weird answer. I’m more on the S&M side of things and also I have a weird thing of being protective over sadists because... they’re like puppies, somehow, and they get such a bad reputation. Anyway, grain of salt and all that!

My favorite answer to this was from someone who viewed giving pain as their version of affection. Sometimes, they did have submissives who would need punishment in the dynamic for structure and security, that sense of approval. Keeping in mind that this was a well adjusted person who didn’t lie about what they were, too.

They hated giving pain with punishment. They said that masochists knew the difference in punishment and playtime, so it would work for them (atmospherically, there was just a key different that felt bad, if done correctly), but for the sadist, they hated the thought of their affection being connected to something with bad connotations, like punishment. It just felt wrong to them.

This was from a conversation a while ago that wasn’t this exact conversation, but it was one of those things that made me smile in a, “How dreamy,” way.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I had to work up the nerve to answer because shyness and, also, it will be a weird answer. I’m more on the S&M side of things and also I have a weird thing of being protective over sadists because... they’re like puppies, somehow, and they get such a bad reputation. Anyway, grain of salt and all that!

My favorite answer to this was from someone who viewed giving pain as their version of affection. Sometimes, they did have submissives who would need punishment in the dynamic for structure and security, that sense of approval. Keeping in mind that this was a well adjusted person who didn’t lie about what they were, too.

They hated giving pain with punishment. They said that masochists knew the difference in punishment and playtime, so it would work for them (atmospherically, there was just a key different that felt bad, if done correctly), but for the sadist, they hated the thought of their affection being connected to something with bad connotations, like punishment. It just felt wrong to them.

This was from a conversation a while ago that wasn’t this exact conversation, but it was one of those things that made me smile in a, “How dreamy,” way.

I've never thought about how pain could be a sadist's affection. I can understand how that wouldn't be viewed as a good punishment for a sadist that feels that way.

For me, and I may have already said this, passion for fun and pain for punishment feels very different. I also wouldn't deliberately seek out punishment either. If I want pain, I'll just ask for it.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I had to work up the nerve to answer because shyness and, also, it will be a weird answer. I’m more on the S&M side of things and also I have a weird thing of being protective over sadists because... they’re like puppies, somehow, and they get such a bad reputation. Anyway, grain of salt and all that!

My favorite answer to this was from someone who viewed giving pain as their version of affection. Sometimes, they did have submissives who would need punishment in the dynamic for structure and security, that sense of approval. Keeping in mind that this was a well adjusted person who didn’t lie about what they were, too.

They hated giving pain with punishment. They said that masochists knew the difference in punishment and playtime, so it would work for them (atmospherically, there was just a key different that felt bad, if done correctly), but for the sadist, they hated the thought of their affection being connected to something with bad connotations, like punishment. It just felt wrong to them.

This was from a conversation a while ago that wasn’t this exact conversation, but it was one of those things that made me smile in a, “How dreamy,” way.

I’m glad you got past the shyness and posted. There can be this big ”please don’t let me be misunderstood”-feeling when posting about certain topics but that is often the interesting stuff I think.

I can totally understand what they mean by just a key wrong making it feel different. It’s never as much about the act or the actual pain as it is about the headspace. Someone pulling yor hair on purpose to control or the same someone accidentally putting their hand beside your head can be the exact same thing but one is ooh and the other is ouch.
It both about their intent and your state of mind if that makes sense? I totally get how it could feel bad to the sadist in that scenario, kind of like service pain for reasons that don’t turn you on.
I guess it would be quite ok for someone who sees their sadism or perhaps service differently though.

I do get what you mean about puppies too and that made me smile. I would advise against laughing and pointing anyway because sometimes puppies grow up big.

 

[supercollider00]

I don’t get punished. I do get pain. The 2 have nothing to do with each other. When we disappoint or anger each other, we talk things out.

This is a very important distinction. I also wouldn't react positively (like others have mentioned) to being punished if I've really tried my damnest for something in the relationship. Communication is always #1.

That said, within the context of D/s or if I'm being slightly bratty I do like that type of punishment. Sometimes I've not enjoyed the punishment and really learned my lessons, but other times I also feel that type of punishment can reinforce the dynamic and make me feel owned which is always lovely.

 

[IrisAlthea]

question to the op: do you want U/us to talk about punishment or about pain (from spanking to the extremes) or both? i keep wondering as you worded your initial post in a way where you might have gotten the two mixed and for S/some of U/us both are different

I was curious about your views on punishment.
They are different for me too.

 

[wallstreetguy]

I enjoy giving punishments and find that the sub will always ask for more. She is the one pushing for the more extreme. I accommodate and I have never been told to hold back.
Many women have a laundry list of punishments and humiliations they want to experience. They range from the verbal to the extremely physical.
Part of me wonders what happened to make women ask for this. The other part of me enjoys it.