Spelling and grammar checking

[rexbrookdale]

Hi,

I would like to know if other editors have come across this problem: an author has put the story through a spelling and grammar checker, and has corrected the issues, prior to sending to me for editing.

But, when I started to edit I found numerous simple grammatical or syntax issues including things like a space between the end of a word and the comma,

e.g.: her ,

I would have thought the spelling and grammar checking algorithm would have caught this?

Oddly enough, I then put the story through a spelling and grammar checker and found the same result: no mistakes noted, including the one above.

Just seemed odd, and as if I was missing something.

Furthermore, I hate to ask an author, who has already gone to the trouble of putting the story through a spelling and grammar checker, to do it again. Or worse, to assume that the author has not done so when he/she has indeed.

Please, no flames. I'm just trying to do my best and am perplexed at the moment.

Cheers.

 

[29wordsforsnow]

Did you both used the same software? Can you tell us which one?

Word's grammar checker would underline your example and I think grammarly too.

 

[rexbrookdale]

Did you both used the same software? Can you tell us which one?

Word's grammar checker would underline your example and I think grammarly too.

I use MS Word.

When I ran the story through the MS Word spelling and grammar check, it took a very short time: just a few seconds, before coming up with a message that it had checked the whole document and had no errors.

I ran it through several times; I selected just a paragraph, one time, and asked the spelling/grammar tool to check that one paragraph for errors. The paragraph contained some sentences that ran on, and had some syntax issues. I also selected a sentence that I thought had specific issues the spelling/grammar tool would have caught, to no avail.

In other stories I've edited, I've run the spelling/grammar tool and it has come across similar sentences and alerted me to them, stating as fragments or suggesting other words, or making other suggestions such as for grammar.

The author's first language is not English; possibly Indian. The author indicated that the story had gone through a spelling/grammar check. If the story went through a spelling/grammar tool via another software program, would that matter? I mean, would it have had an affect on the ability of my MS Word spelling/grammar tool to work, do you suppose?

 

[mfan2112]

Word's grammar checker SUCKS.

I use Grammarly and ProWritingAid before sending to my editors to give things a good scrubbing.

 

[rexbrookdale]

Word's grammar checker SUCKS.

I use Grammarly and ProWritingAid before sending to my editors to give things a good scrubbing.

Thanks. I'll take a look at those.

I'm thinking that perhaps the author chose a spelling/grammar checker for UK English as opposed to US English. That might change the way it assessed placement of quotations and commas.

Even so, still, doesn't all add up....

Onward.

Cheers.

 

[Charrla]

For what it's worth, pro editors regard ALL of those programs to be highly faulty. Not just Word's grammar checker (which they won't even touch), but Grammarly, Hemingway, and Prowritingaid. Mostly these programs introduce mistakes. So it's not at all surprising to me that writers use these programs and still have documents full of mistakes.

 

[SimonDoom]

For what it's worth, pro editors regard ALL of those programs to be highly faulty. Not just Word's grammar checker (which they won't even touch), but Grammarly, Hemingway, and Prowritingaid. Mostly these programs introduce mistakes. So it's not at all surprising to me that writers use these programs and still have documents full of mistakes.

I use both Grammarly and Word's grammar checker. I find them helpful, but that's because I go through every recommended change carefully and deliberately, and never make global changes, and my spelling and grammar are good enough that I can almost always tell if they are wrong. They're useful if you already know spelling and grammar well, and you use them to catch proofreading errors, which is what I mostly do. They are less helpful as a substitute for good grammar and spelling knowledge, which takes time and practice to achieve.

I still make plenty of proofing mistakes. Usually spelling something wrong or the inadvertent substitution of a homophone for the right word, like "there" for "their", which Grammarly and Word may or may not catch.

 

[Tigersman]

As a volunteer editor I've received many a story that spell checks ignored misspelled words because the spell check did not possess a syntax function. I edit each story twice to get it as clean as possible. I don't stop with checking spelling both make sure the plot and character development is good as is the flow. I check for consistency errors and the need for sentence restructuring. I also make sure the punctuation is correct.

 

[KeithD]

I use both Grammarly and Word's grammar checker. I find them helpful, but that's because I go through every recommended change carefully and deliberately, and never make global changes, and my spelling and grammar are good enough that I can almost always tell if they are wrong. They're useful if you already know spelling and grammar well, and you use them to catch proofreading errors, which is what I mostly do. They are less helpful as a substitute for good grammar and spelling knowledge, which takes time and practice to achieve.

I still make plenty of proofing mistakes. Usually spelling something wrong or the inadvertent substitution of a homophone for the right word, like "there" for "their", which Grammarly and Word may or may not catch.

This reflects my usage as well. The last run I take through a work is a "find" and review for double quotation marks. I'm not naturally good at maintaining the pairing of these.

 

[mfan2112]

For what it's worth, pro editors regard ALL of those programs to be highly faulty. Not just Word's grammar checker (which they won't even touch), but Grammarly, Hemingway, and Prowritingaid. Mostly these programs introduce mistakes. So it's not at all surprising to me that writers use these programs and still have documents full of mistakes.

Sure a professional would do a lot better, but last time I checked, this is a free site. With the exception of a few who win a few shillings in a contest, none of us are getting paid. So the money for a professional copy editor comes from where?

Until then, I am stuck using free digital assistants and volunteer editors.

 

[yukonnights]

This reflects my usage as well. The last run I take through a work is a "find" and review for double quotation marks. I'm not naturally good at maintaining the pairing of these.

I use the 'find' function to look for double spacing between words that should be only single spaced. Those are really hard to see. One can use the "find" function to run through a list of common homophones too.

 

[KeithD]

I use the 'find' function to look for double spacing between words that should be only single spaced. Those are really hard to see. One can use the "find" function to run through a list of common homophones too.

Easier (and one of the first things we do in preparing a manuscript in a publishing house) is to go to "replace," put two blank spaces in the "find what" box and nothing in the "replace with" box and then keep hitting the button until it claims there are no more multiple spaces--because there's no reason ever to have extra spacing in a published work. You don't have to find them individually. None of them are needed in published work.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I use the 'find' function to look for double spacing between words that should be only single spaced. Those are really hard to see.

I'm not sure this is actually necessary for stories posted on Literotica. IIRC, double spaces in stories just display as singles anyway. Likewise in forum posts, as you will see if you quote this message and look at what I entered vs. what displays.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm not sure this is actually necessary for stories posted on Literotica. IIRC, double spaces in stories just display as singles anyway. Likewise in forum posts, as you will see if you quote this message and look at what I entered vs. what displays.

EB looked at Bramblethorn suspiciously. "You mean I've been wasting my time doing that Find Replace thing?" Dang .

 

[KeithD]

EB looked at Bramblethorn suspiciously. "You mean I've been wasting my time doing that Find Replace thing?" Dang .

Only if your horizons don't go any higher than posting to a free-use Internet site. If you're truly aiming higher there's no reason why you wouldn't make industry standards your habit.

 

[Bramblethorn]

EB looked at Bramblethorn suspiciously. "You mean I've been wasting my time doing that Find Replace thing?" Dang .

If you're only publishing in HTML, then the reader won't see it. (Not just a Literotica thing; applies to a lot of other online platforms too.)

I habitually look out for double spaces anyway, because a lot of my paid work involves Word/PDF docs where double spaces aren't automatically hidden. Unfortunately in that work a blanket search and replace isn't appropriate, because some authors use multiple spaces to control text alignment and automatically removing that will break stuff.

(This is an absolutely terrible way to control text alignment, and likely to result in an aggrieved editor placing curses on your entire bloodline, but it still happens.)

 

[KeithD]

Unfortunately in that work a blanket search and replace isn't appropriate, because some authors use multiple spaces to control text alignment and automatically removing that will break stuff.

In the professional publishing world, there isn't any "authors use" in submitting manuscripts electronically. The formatting comes in to fit the publisher's standard or the author has to find someone who will fit it to publisher standard. Such things like spacing and straight rather than smart quotes can be and are accommodated, but the publishers don't spend any time trying to figure out the fancy Cadillac the author felt it was his/her place to create. Publishers provide the directions for a Chevy, and that's what they'll accept. Reformatting--and, especially trying to figure out what jazzy thing the author thought was great to do in formatting--is money the publisher isn't going to spend (unless you are a bonified best-seller already, of course).

 

[Bramblethorn]

In the professional publishing world, there isn't any "authors use" in submitting manuscripts electronically. The formatting comes in to fit the publisher's standard or the author has to find someone who will fit it to publisher standard. Such things like spacing and straight rather than smart quotes can be and are accommodated, but the publishers don't spend any time trying to figure out the fancy Cadillac the author felt it was his/her place to create. Publishers provide the directions for a Chevy, and that's what they'll accept. Reformatting--and, especially trying to figure out what jazzy thing the author thought was great to do in formatting--is money the publisher isn't going to spend (unless you are a bonified best-seller already, of course).

The "professional publishing world" is a large and diverse beast, and sadly what's true at your end of it isn't so much in mine. I can why it'd work that way in fiction publishing, where layout is usually relatively simple, and there's no shortage of would-be authors so the publishers can afford to reject anybody who doesn't follow standards.

But in technical non-fiction, where I am, it's a different story. The main priorities in an author are expertise in the subject matter and ability to deliver a 600-page book on specified topics in a relatively short period of time. Books usually have complex layout (multiple columns, graphics, info boxes, etc. etc.) and nobody expects authors to be expert in that on top of everything else. So labour is divided differently here.

Normally I don't have to worry about layout stuff at all, because usually somebody else wrangles that before it comes to me to check the technical aspects. (It might seem weird to do it in that order, but part of the technical work is catching stuff that gets broken by the layout process.)

But occasionally we'll short-cut the process for one reason or another, and then I have to deal with formatting considerations.

 

[KeithD]

The "professional publishing world" is a large and diverse beast, and sadly what's true at your end of it isn't so much in mine.

Considering the relative sizes of the industries involved, I won't worry much about that.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Considering the relative sizes of the industries involved, I won't worry much about that.

Honestly I have no idea how large our respective branches are; I've never stopped to measure. The main thing is that they're pleasant to work with and they pay me, reliably and well.

Now I think about it... I'd assume there are far fewer titles in this branch than in fiction, and some are very niche, but others have a decent-sized captive market with only a few competitors. Several of the books I've worked on sell in volumes that would put a fiction book on the best-seller lists, and at almost 10x the price.

Probably still a small pond compared to fiction, but it's a nice one to be in.