Foreigners speaking English

[LaRascasse]

How do you make it work?

If you have a story set in a non-English speaking setting, how do you write dialogue? You may have the main character and a few others who speak English, but any interaction with locals will raise questions.

I have two stories in progress. One set in Eastern Europe and one set in Naples. In both cases, the main character is American, but there is a lot of interaction with the locals. My writing style is generally dialogue heavy.

Having been to both these places, I can confirm that English does not get you far. In both cases, I have a side character who knows both the local language and English, but beyond that is pushing it.

Am I overthinking it?

Will the reader understand that the conversations may be in a different language and is translated for their benefit?

Or do I have to have my interpreter of convenience translate everything that is said? (sounds tedious)

How do actual writers work around this?

 

[oggbashan]

I just put a note at the start of the story.

"The conversations are assumed to be in French."

From my story Lille:

I spoke to them in French. I won't write what I said in French. What follows is a rough English paraphrase of our conversation.

From my story Men At Arms:

Conversations are assumed to be in the English and French of the 14th century retold in modern English.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

I italicize dialogue happening in another language, and usually mention in the sentence what the language involved is.

Unless it doesn't really matter what is being said, then I just use the language. It happens very often with my character Freja, who is Danish.

When my characters who don't speak English as a first language speak it, it depends on their level of fluency. If they're proficient, it may just seem slightly formal, as if they learned it in school. It it may be somewhat stilted, if they're less fluent.

Freja, on the other hand, sounds like Swisgaar from Dethklok speaking while he's having a stroke. She's hilarious.

"I AMS NOT HAVINGS A STROKE! THIS IS HOW THE SPEAKING OF ENGLISH IS DONE!!!"

Comedy is everything.

 

[oggbashan]

Added

My story:

https://www.literotica.com/beta/s/magic-carpet-2

Depends on an Alsatian French girl unable to speak in English. In the whole story there is only one short statement in French.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Will the reader understand that the conversations may be in a different language and is translated for their benefit?

I'd provide a contextual statement that they were conversing in the other language, and proceed in English. Readers are clever, don't underestimate their ability to figure it out.

 

[oggbashan]

Dorothy L Sayers was criticized by her contemporaries for assuming that her readers could understand French, German, and Latin without translations...

 

[KeithD]

I write a lot of stories set in non-English-speaking locales and that include a mix of characters, some English speakers, some not. I usually have a smattering of foreign language dialogue (in italics), but always provided in English as well in various ways--right there with the foreign phrase, if no other convention is possible. Later in the story, the foreign phrases might thin out or disappear, after I've established what language is in general use. Text that assumes I understand any language other than English irritates me. I've studied a whole hell of a lot of foreign languages, few of which have stuck in any functional way. I don't like being reminded that I lean on the broad acceptance of English.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think you have to do anything special at all. Authors have been writing books and stories set in foreign countries forever. People watch movies set in foreign countries, or in the past, and everybody speaks English.

The movie Gladiator didn't begin with a caption "In this movie, Latin has been translated into English." Nobody actually needs that.

It's only an issue if you have a scene where the language barrier is an issue.

 

[LaRascasse]

I don't think you have to do anything special at all. Authors have been writing books and stories set in foreign countries forever. People watch movies set in foreign countries, or in the past, and everybody speaks English.

The movie Gladiator didn't begin with a caption "In this movie, Latin has been translated into English." Nobody actually needs that.

It's only an issue if you have a scene where the language barrier is an issue.

True, but since everybody in Gladiator would be speaking Latin, it makes sense to translate all of it for the benefit of the viewer.

However, here you have one character who knows only English, a couple who know both English and the local language and the majority who know only the local language. Hence, conversations not involving the main protagonist would invariably be in non-English and she should not be able to understand it. So far I'm going with filler like "the two men spoke animatedly in Serbian for a few minutes before Zeljko turned to her again."... but I wonder how many of these I can pull off.

 

[oggbashan]

I remember a dreadful Saturday matinee movie at our local fleapit cinema. They usually had a child-friendly feature followed by a cheap B-movie - the sort that would struggle to get an online release now.

The cinema owner had a brother in Italy who supplied terrible Italian films crudely dubbed by Italians speaking what they thought was American.

The film was one of many Hercules Versus the Kraken; Gorgon; Godzilla etc.

In one screen Hercules is addressing a semi-naked blonde. He makes a long speech - in Italian, lasting about two minutes. The dubbing voice said 'I'll kill that bozo' but his mouth kept moving for another 115 seconds.

What did we expect for three old pennies (approx two cents US) when the cheapest seats for a normal feature was four times that?

 

[stickygirl]

Word order, or occasional wrong words can sound charming. If you over do it, it gets to be hard work , just as it does speaking the English with the person who have not a fainting idea of that meaning please

 

[Bramblethorn]

I remember a dreadful Saturday matinee movie at our local fleapit cinema. They usually had a child-friendly feature followed by a cheap B-movie - the sort that would struggle to get an online release now.

The cinema owner had a brother in Italy who supplied terrible Italian films crudely dubbed by Italians speaking what they thought was American.

The film was one of many Hercules Versus the Kraken; Gorgon; Godzilla etc.

In one screen Hercules is addressing a semi-naked blonde. He makes a long speech - in Italian, lasting about two minutes. The dubbing voice said 'I'll kill that bozo' but his mouth kept moving for another 115 seconds.

What did we expect for three old pennies (approx two cents US) when the cheapest seats for a normal feature was four times that?

Reminds me of "Hercules Returns": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_Returns

 

[BarracudaSwordfish]

I've used a fair few non-English speakers, including Americans (waits for incoming but firmly declares, 'joke'! ) and vary how I use them speaking in their native language.

I have included brief phrases in French without translation where they are well known or fairly obvious from the narrative.

I have also provided translations in italics for longer sentences, especially in 'Dazed and Confused' where Tess is trying to fight off the attentions of her French tutor Ginny. Where they converse totally in French, like Oggbashan, I say that the conversation continued in French.

To me, languages, dialects and accents are part of life's rich tapestry and I love drama and narrative that includes and rejoices in them. It adds colour and realism and even if sometimes it is not perfectly translated, it still works.

I've only had one comment about a silly error in the name of a French railway station I have been through countless times and it really annoyed me. And I mean the error, not the comment!

Still waiting for someone to pick up on my Norwegian translation of 'fucking little lesbian', so either there are not many Norwegian Lit readers or I nailed it. ('Pick on Someone Your Own Size' for anyone interested )

 

[Emirus]

Don’t insult your readers.

How do you make it work?

If you have a story set in a non-English speaking setting, how do you write dialogue? You may have the main character and a few others who speak English, but any interaction with locals will raise questions.

I have two stories in progress. One set in Eastern Europe and one set in Naples. In both cases, the main character is American, but there is a lot of interaction with the locals. My writing style is generally dialogue heavy.

Having been to both these places, I can confirm that English does not get you far. In both cases, I have a side character who knows both the local language and English, but beyond that is pushing it.

Am I overthinking it?

Will the reader understand that the conversations may be in a different language and is translated for their benefit?

Or do I have to have my interpreter of convenience translate everything that is said? (sounds tedious)

How do actual writers work around this?

I’m a fan of Lisbeth Salander and I find no difficulty in assuming, because the stories are (mainly) set in Sweden, she is speaking in Swedish and so are the other main characters. Did I expect Stieg Larsson, or David Lagercrantz as it is now, to rewrite the stories in some form of pidgin Swedish to ensure I knew the story was set in Sweden? Of course not. That would have been ridiculous and I would never have got, that’s gotten for American readers (joke), past the first few pages before throwing the book in the bin. (American = trash can).

Credit your readers with some intelligence and common sense. If you want to use a language barrier for comedic effect then carry on but for any other reason you’re heading for disaster. Perhaps I should be diplomatic and say potential disaster. Even if you are doing it for humour remember what you think is funny might not be seen in the same way by your reader.

If you feel it necessary to tell the reader the story is set in a particular country or period of time then put an explanation at the beginning before you start the story. Even if you don’t want to do that tell them by the way you write the story. Use your powers of description in the same way as you describe your characters appearance or the location they are in.

Don’t insult your readers by treating them like five year olds learning to read who need everything explained to them.

 

[PennameWombat]

How do you make it work?

If you have a story set in a non-English speaking setting, how do you write dialogue? You may have the main character and a few others who speak English, but any interaction with locals will raise questions.

I have two stories in progress. One set in Eastern Europe and one set in Naples. In both cases, the main character is American, but there is a lot of interaction with the locals. My writing style is generally dialogue heavy.

Having been to both these places, I can confirm that English does not get you far. In both cases, I have a side character who knows both the local language and English, but beyond that is pushing it.

Am I overthinking it?

Will the reader understand that the conversations may be in a different language and is translated for their benefit?

Or do I have to have my interpreter of convenience translate everything that is said? (sounds tedious)

How do actual writers work around this?

What is your goal? To convey your MC's confusion and some comedy at language misunderstandings? Or have them get into danger when they accidentally insult some Neapolitan Camorra?

FWIW, reality is simple. An old joke.

Just remember that a small-town French post office clerk likely knows as much English as your local American post office clerk knows French.

Which is your point.

Or, screw reality. It's a story. Remember your readers. In my Winter Holidays 2020 entry I had two human cultures who'd both descended from English-speaking space colonists but had been separated for ~500 years. In real life, English of 1500 and 2000 are mutually understandable with some difficulties. English of 1000 and 1500 weren't mutually understandable. So I cheated, I transcribed strong but understandable accents based on whose PoV we were in, but largely it their speech to each other was less difficult than it likely would be in reality. But. It's a story about two groups of humans finding each other, not a linguistics dissertation. If I was doing it as a 90,000 word novel? Yeah, I'd handle it differently, use the near-intelligibility to ramp up some tension, etc. The story had less of that, but it was also well shorter.

In my kidnapped by aliens story (Adrift in Space) my male MC reacted to speech in a language so far off of anything he knew by treating it as simply noise. No, I didn't bother inventing a language nor try to convey it on the page, I just showed his utter incomprehension of what he was hearing whenever he heard 'alien.' But I also cheated, many aliens spoke English to some degree but they also had a universal translator via an earbud that they eventually gave him. But whatever the aliens may have said to each other I never bothered translating nor transcribing, eventually one of them spoke English to tell my MC what they expected. Before that, it was just him and his confusion but I did not do this for long sections.

My view was given something where you simply cannot comprehend it's not like your viewpoint character would have any way to reliably 'transcribe' what he or she is hearing. I also set a story on the aliens' homeworld and I did nothing to 'call out' language. Sure, they all spoke 'alien' but who cares. The nearest human was 32 light years away... the story is simply in regular English, e.g., "nude beach" is a, um, a beach where characters are nude, not whatever the literal alien words would've been.

These aren't exactly your scenario. But if you're going to set stories where you have an English-only speaker trying to communicate with non-English speakers, you're either going to translate a lot, have the characters speaking and getting confused looks back or have people communicating via gesture.

What do others do? Is the goal to convey your MC's confusion? You could do that. Might not be a fun story, but realistic, streams of non-English left untranslated or like I did above, the MC's thoughts "I'm SO confused!"

As you suggest above, for sections in e.g., Neapolitan, if you put those sections in English you'll have to show your MC expressing their frustration, anger, confusion, or whatever, as this is happening. You'd have to work out how to describe it happening/ending. It would come down to how you can convey the MC's moods and reactions, IMHO, to make it believable. Edit: You'll also have to remember your readers have much more information than your MC, and not bore them with the MC learning what they learned from the text/dialogue flow.

Universal translators don't quite yet exist, but, phones do. Speak English into the phone and have it speak Neapolitan (well, Italian, most locals would understand.)

Or, back to the beginning, screw reality. Have more people speak English than might be normal.

 

[Ginlover]

I couldn’t find a singularly agreed method When I looked but I personally use italics and [] I didn’t explain this in the story but this is how I introduced it having previously said Mark can speak Vietnamese earlier. In the story the extract is from the American starts to teach the other man how to speak English and I swap back to “” and then to [] as the dialogue goes on.

Mark checked the guard was still asleep before whispering, "Chào."

[Hello.] The man's eyes were downcast and his voice hesitant. [Are you the American who speaks Vietnamese?]

Mark’s colorful language under interrogation had clearly flown through the jungle-wires if even civilians knew about the performance. He nodded cautiously. [Yes I am. My name is Mark. What is yours?]

 

[KeithD]

The foreign vernacular should, yes, be put in italics. There's no reason to put English vernacular in an English-language work in italics, though.

 

[Jamie_and_Lisa]

IN 1970, THE BRITISH EMPIRE LAY IN RUINS, FOREIGN NATIONALS FREQUENTED THE STREETS - MANY OF THEM HUNGARIANS (NOT THE STREETS - THE FOREIGN NATIONALS). ANYWAY, MANY OF THESE HUNGARIANS WENT INTO TOBACCONIST'S SHOPS TO BUY CIGARETTES...

Enter Hungarian gentleman with phrase book. He is looking for the right phrase.

Hungarian I will not buy this record, it is scratched.
Tobacconist Sorry?
Hungarian I will not buy this record, it is scratched.
Tobacconist No, no, no.This ... tobacconist's.
Hungarian Ah! I will not buy this tobacconist's, it is scratched.
Tobacconist No, no, no ...tobacco...er, cigarettes?
Hungarian Yes, cigarettes. My hovercraft is full of eels.
Tobacconist What?
Hungarian (miming matches) My hovercraft is full of eels.
Tobacconist Matches, matches? (showing some)
Hungarian Yah, yah. (he takes cigarettes and matches and pulls out loose change; he consults his book) Er, do you want ... do you want to come back to my place, bouncy bouncy?
Tobacconist I don't think you're using that right.
Hungarian You great pouf.
Tobacconist That'll be six and six, please.
Hungarian If I said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me? I am no longer infected.
Tobacconist (miming that he wants to see the book; he takes the book) It costs six and six ...(mumbling as he searches) Costs six and six ... Here we are ... Yandelvayasna grldenwi stravenka.
Hungarian hits him between the eyes. Policeman walking along the street suddenly stops and puts his hand to his ear. He starts running down the street, round corner and down another street, round yet another corner and down another street into the shop
Policeman What's going on here then?
Hungarian (opening book and pointing at tobacconist) You have beautiful thighs.
Policeman What?
Tobacconist He hit me.
Hungarian Drop your panties, Sir William, I cannot wait till lunchtime.
Policeman Right! (grabs him and drags him out)
Hungarian My nipples explode with delight.
Cut to a courtroom.

-- Monty Python (1970) Episode 25

 

[R. Richard]

"One set in Eastern Europe and one set in Naples."
Naples is in Florida, USA. Napoli is in Italia.

 

[HectorBidon]

Having been to both these places, I can confirm that English does not get you far. In both cases, I have a side character who knows both the local language and English, but beyond that is pushing it.

Will the reader understand that the conversations may be in a different language and is translated for their benefit?

Or do I have to have my interpreter of convenience translate everything that is said? (sounds tedious)

You could describe the whole interpretation procedure in detail the first couple times just to show how it works and to give a sense of how smoothly or awkwardly it goes. But after that you could leave out the tedious parts, the way we leave out the "he said"s when the identity of the speaker is not in question.

The use of an interpreter actually can involve some dramatic possibilities. If the interpreter is quite proficient then he becomes transparent and the dialog is between the speaker and the intended recipient. But maybe the interpreter doesn't speak English so well and so doesn't translate accurately, or maybe he has a bias or agenda of his own that distorts his interpretation in one or both directions. The two characters trying to converse may or may not be aware of this, and may not be sure whether their intended meaning is getting through.

The movie Fail Safe has a great scene in which the US President (Henry Fonda) communicates over the Hot Line with the Soviet Premier. There are interpreters on both sides, and Henry Fonda is just as interested in the interpreter's interpretation of the Premier's tone of voice, the accuracy of the Russian interpreter's translation, and the background side conversations the Premier is having with his aides as he is in the words the Premier is actually saying. Not your situation exactly, but it shows the possibilities.

I guess the point is, communication with someone when neither of you speak the same language has a different flavor and a different dynamic than same-language communication. To the extent that that is important either to the tone or the plot of the story, you should try to let it come through.

 

[Handley_Page]

It may be worth remembering how the 'great' SciFi writers of the 50s & 60s managed to communicate the difficulty of language./cultures.
EE 'Doc' Smith put a comment in his 'Lensmen' books that apologised for a inefficient translation.