Pope Francis - Same-Sex Civil Unions

[sultrysandy]

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Decided to post URL's to different articles since to me Washington Post and NPR headlines say the same thing, but the New York Times and Associated Press each say two different things.



Pope Francis, in Shift for Church, Voices Support for Same-Sex Civil Unions
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/world/europe/pope-francis-same-sex-civil-unions.html


Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-francis-civil-unions/2020/10/21/805a601c-139e-11eb-a258-614acf2b906d_story.html


Francis becomes 1st pope to endorse same-sex civil unions
https://apnews.com/article/pope-endorse-same-sex-civil-unions-eb3509b30ebac35e91aa7cbda2013de2


Pope Francis Calls For Same-Sex Civil Union Law In New Documentary
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/926219084/pope-francis-calls-for-same-sex-civil-union-law-in-new-documentary

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[Bramblethorn]

I guess it's a positive step, but it's hard to imagine anybody being pleased with this statement. For the RWNJs it's going way too far, and they'll reject it the same way they reject it any time Francis advocates charity and compassion. For everybody else, it's still 30 years behind the times.

 

[sultrysandy]

I guess it's a positive step, but it's hard to imagine anybody being pleased with this statement. For the RWNJs it's going way too far, and they'll reject it the same way they reject it any time Francis advocates charity and compassion. For everybody else, it's still 30 years behind the times.

You're familiar with the saying, "You can't please everyone"? Roman Catholic Church also has politics, along with those that are far-left and far-right.

And for being thirty years behind the times, depends who you're talking. Many layman still belive homosexuality is religiously and/or morally wrong. There are also ordained priests and ministers see nothing wrong and/or support it.





https://i.imgur.com/W6p1rab.jpg



https://66.media.tumblr.com/afc5d45c410551ec770a7c2b93bace90/tumblr_nz064supDK1ukb3roo1_1280.jpg

 

[Bramblethorn]

You're familiar with the saying, "You can't please everyone"? Roman Catholic Church also has politics, along with those that are far-left and far-right.

Yep, I'm from an Irish Catholic family and one of my great-aunts did her Masters thesis on Church law, so I've had a bit of exposure to the politics over the years. I know there's a very wide range of opinions within the faith and it's impossible to please everybody in that church... but this seems like a position that pleases virtually nobody.

(With the number of queer Catholics I've met, I suspect the church round here would collapse overnight if they all left...)

 

[sultrysandy]

Yep, I'm from an Irish Catholic family and one of my great-aunts did her Masters thesis on Church law, so I've had a bit of exposure to the politics over the years. I know there's a very wide range of opinions within the faith and it's impossible to please everybody in that church... but this seems like a position that pleases virtually nobody.

(With the number of queer Catholics I've met, I suspect the church round here would collapse overnight if they all left...)

Homosexuality and far-right, whether it's in religion or politics, don't mix. Some people belive that something that's neither any of their business or affect them, to force their views on and condemn others.


I know a woman that has said, "It says in the Bible that God created coronavirus so the gays spread it each other and they all die". She also says it was wrong for the pastor of the church she attends to preside over the wedding, especially performing the ceremony in the church, of his homosexual son. And two weeks ago she's in a furry over gossip that Sunday School Teacher is a lesbian (teaching homosexuality to children).

Don't even roll my eyes, simply keep my mouth shut and let her go.



https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/51792169/omg-you-guys-i-said-i-hate-figs.jpg

 

[yukonnights]

Overall, I think it's a positive step forward. Pope Francis, in my opinion, is a step advanced in his own faith beyond many, if not most, Catholics. He's come to the place of actually believing; "Who am I to judge?"

IMO, true faith is about me changing me — not me changing that person or this person or anyone else. Francis has also spoken loudly and clearly in regard to our common responsibility to our home, the Earth — and the looming disaster if we don't wake up and try to change course.

So, will his words change the hardness in mankind's collective heart? I doubt it. But at least he spoke truth in the face of entrenched religious dogma. And who knows, keep chipping at the block of ignorance and maybe one day it will crumble — or at the least a few big pieces will fall away.

 

[stickygirl]

Always seems like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog they live on.

 

[coati]

Sultrysandy,

Jesus was not only misunderstood when he said "I hate figs", but was totally misinterpreted when he said "Everyone has a God-given right to bare gums."

 

[sultrysandy]

Sultrysandy,

Jesus was not only misunderstood when he said "I hate figs", but was totally misinterpreted when he said "Everyone has a God-given right to bare gums."

Huh, thought it's the right to bare arms?


That is unless you're Venus de Milo

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Front_views_of_the_Venus_de_Milo.jpg/544px-Front_views_of_the_Venus_de_Milo.jpg



I know, it's a groaner
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[coati]

I guess it's a positive step, but it's hard to imagine anybody being pleased with this statement. For the RWNJs it's going way too far, and they'll reject it the same way they reject it any time Francis advocates charity and compassion. For everybody else, it's still 30 years behind the times.

Yes, and the Pope has a lot of work to do in order to restore the Catholic brand with regard to sexuality in general.

Good luck, Frankie! We at Lit will give you a hand if you need it.

 

[Escierto]

I stopped going to Catholic Mass after Trump got elected with Catholics voting for him. This is a welcome step forward but it doesn’t even come close to the revolution that is necessary within the church. I can’t see myself ever going back.

 

[Buscando]

It did raise a few questions

Well, first, why not look on the bright side? This could solve their recruitment problems, couldn't it?

Now then, if all the other infallible popes over the years have said one thing, but this infallible guy now says something else, does that make him even more infallible than all those other infallible guys?

But wait. Wouldn't that then imply degrees of infallibility?

If you're as confused as I am by all this, maybe we owe it to ourselves to ask how, after all, we could expect any degree of logic or reason from the members of a cult which, well into the 21st century, still clings to medieval superstitions?

But I do love the shoes.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Well, first, why not look on the bright side? This could solve their recruitment problems, couldn't it?

Now then, if all the other infallible popes over the years have said one thing, but this infallible guy now says something else, does that make him even more infallible than all those other infallible guys?

Off on a tangent, but—that's not how the doctrine of papal infallibility works. Catholicism only holds the Pope to be infallible when speaking ex cathedra, which happens very rarely. It hasn't been invoked since 1950, and only a handful of times in the entire history of the Church.

 

[Buscando]

Is there a doctrine in the house?

Off on a tangent, but—that's not how the doctrine of papal infallibility works. Catholicism only holds the Pope to be infallible when speaking ex cathedra, which happens very rarely. It hasn't been invoked since 1950, and only a handful of times in the entire history of the Church.

Thank you for your response, but - and I'm not now, nor ever have been a Catholic - as I understand it, the whole ex cathedra notion didn't appear until early in the 19th century, then got modified again around mid-20th century (Vatican II?), and there still seems to be much confusion within the church about just how it works, when it's in force and just what it means.

However welcome the definition may be, though, it still wouldn't appear to answer the question.

No matter, though, my post was all rather tongue in cheek, and certainly, when discussing any aspect of religion, no matter what particular flavor, logic simply cannot be applied, nor is reason to be expected.

May you be blessed by the god of your choice.

 

[coati]

But I do love the shoes.

And the robes and smell of incense.

As a kid I used to deliver newspapers to the local Catholic convent and rectory. They did not tip well at Christmas time, and it was a bit intimidating to collect payments there.

I can see how easy it was for less ethical priests to take advantage of kids, but the only bad experience I had was when the nuns refused to let me bring my brand new bike onto the covered porch of their convent during a sudden rain storm. Apparently no 8-year-old boys were allowed in the convent at that particular location.

 

[Buscando]

Perhaps a misunderstanding?

And the robes and smell of incense.

As a kid I used to deliver newspapers to the local Catholic convent and rectory. They did not tip well at Christmas time, and it was a bit intimidating to collect payments there.

I can see how easy it was for less ethical priests to take advantage of kids, but the only bad experience I had was when the nuns refused to let me bring my brand new bike onto the covered porch of their convent during a sudden rain storm. Apparently no 8-year-old boys were allowed in the convent at that particular location.

Could those old bitties have thought you begged permission to bring in your bisexual from the storm?
Or not....
But I was thinking of those shiny, high-stylin' red shoes at which the world marveled on the pontiff's peds, the cost of which likely could have fed the desperate populations in some Third World countries.
Piety apparently ain't cheap. Well, except at Christmas.