Descriptions of women's clothing

[gunhilltrain]

I will occasionally give quick description of clothing when I think it helps with exposition of the character or the situation ("She stood out from the crowd in her bright yellow sundress"), or to describe the impression it makes on another character, ("She noticed that the sleeves of his denim work shirt were frayed"), but if it has no specific purpose, I don't see the point. Readers will picture what they want anyway.

I think lingerie is a special case, thought. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think a lot of male readers have very particular tastes in lingerie and appreciate more detailed description.

It varies. Sometimes it's just "casually dressed," or something like that. At other times, there is no description at all. There are scenes were descriptions of a woman's clothing do, I think, reveal her mood and personality. I do less of that for male characters.

I had one scene in which a girl expresses how much she dislikes her 1970s Burger King uniform.

Yes, in a sex scene readers (males as you say?) would want to know what's underneath as the layers come off. Or maybe all of it doesn't come off, which can be interesting too.

 

[Voboy]

Back when I started writing here, I had it in my head that I should avoid using "real" places and things too much. So, in my stories, people post shit on Pixboox and women shop for underthings at Secret Whispers.

Things were going fine until I set a story IN the lingerie (not loungerie, ever) department at Secret Whispers, with the narrator being an assistant manager... who would clearly know everything about shapewear.

The research for that one clogged up the cookies on my computer for months. I don't usually get all that descriptive about underthings, largely because it's not really a fetish of mine. So it's not really a fetish for the people I write about.

When in doubt, just have everyone take their clothes off faster.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Back when I started writing here, I had it in my head that I should avoid using "real" places and things too much. So, in my stories, people post shit on Pixboox and women shop for underthings at Secret Whispers.

Things were going fine until I set a story IN the lingerie (not loungerie, ever) department at Secret Whispers, with the narrator being an assistant manager... who would clearly know everything about shapewear.

The research for that one clogged up the cookies on my computer for months. I don't usually get all that descriptive about underthings, largely because it's not really a fetish of mine. So it's not really a fetish for the people I write about.

When in doubt, just have everyone take their clothes off faster.

I'm not sure I'd call it a fetish of mine, although maybe it is. An "interest" perhaps? Garters and straps are very appealing. As too what oggbashan said above: men's interest in women's underwear may be so common that it's almost not a fetish. I've never had a reader complain about it.

To digress a bit: for companies, bars, stores and so forth, I usually make up a name although the locations in a neighborhood may be real. I made up a name for a student newspaper at City College, although I refer to real articles and illustrations that appeared in the 1970s paper I used as a model.

 

[vanmyers86]

Once upon a time, I was a fashion reporter and had to learn all those terms. For my writing here, I hardly ever use any of that, but then, I have not set any stories in the world of high fashion.

I vote for full steam ahead. I would bet the rent that no reader is going to point that you misused the term peplum.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Once upon a time, I was a fashion reporter and had to learn all those terms. For my writing here, I hardly ever use any of that, but then, I have not set any stories in the world of high fashion.

I vote for full steam ahead. I would bet the rent that no reader is going to point that you misused the term peplum.

That sounds like a hard job. I wouldn't have the first clue what to say about clothes. Even with all the right vocabulary, I wouldn't know what I ought to be saying about them.

Edit: So I looked up "peplum" to see if it meant what I thought it meant based on how I'd seen it in context. It didn't. So technical!

 

[vanmyers86]

That sounds like a hard job. I wouldn't have the first clue what to say about clothes. Even with all the right vocabulary, I wouldn't know what I ought to be saying about them.

Edit: So I looked up "peplum" to see if it meant what I thought it meant based on how I'd seen it in context. It didn't. So technical!

Believe me, when I got that job, I thought my mom and sister would die laughing, as I'd had absolutely no interest in fashion, ever. When I was a kid, my mother had to bribe me to go shopping for clothes. But then I started learning about it and it turned out to be a fascinating field, particularly its history.

 

[gunhilltrain]

That sounds like a hard job. I wouldn't have the first clue what to say about clothes. Even with all the right vocabulary, I wouldn't know what I ought to be saying about them.

Edit: So I looked up "peplum" to see if it meant what I thought it meant based on how I'd seen it in context. It didn't. So technical!

Using the word peplum is far beyond anything I'd ever write about.

A slight digression: what is that hairstyle where a woman has it short in back and somewhat longer on top and on the sides? It that called a "bob cut" or something? I'm having trouble describing it, but I know it when I see it.

I described a woman having a hairstyle like Louise Brooks (or a flapper?). She was the same one with the Mondrian panties. Yeah, she was pretty hot.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Using the word peplum is far beyond anything I'd ever write about.

A slight digression: what is that hairstyle where a woman has it short in back and somewhat longer on top and on the sides? It that called a "bob cut" or something? I'm having trouble describing it, but I know it when I see it.

I described a woman having a hairstyle like Louise Brooks (or a flapper?). She was the same one with the Mondrian panties. Yeah, she was pretty hot.

I think you're probably talking about a bob if you're comparing it to flappers. Try Googling "bob" and "wedge cut" and see if one of those is what you mean. Wedge cut is different, but it also meets the description you gave. There are a lot of different varieties of bobs now, but the one with really straight hair with a severe hairline, usually above the jawline, is the one I think of as the flapper bob.

 

[NotWise]

I described a woman having a hairstyle like Louise Brooks (or a flapper?). She was the same one with the Mondrian panties. Yeah, she was pretty hot.

Here's Louis Brooks and her haircut.

Her biographer called it a "Dutch Boy." I think when she was most popular in New York and in Paris it was sometimes called a "Brooks." It could be called a bob and everyone would get it, except the few that know there's more than one kind of bob.

There's a danger in "hairstyle like Louise Brooks" because a lot of people won't know who she was.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

If it were my story, I think I'd skip trying to name the hair cut. I'd just describe it in a way that integrated with the story as much as possible:

Her hair shone blue-black in the neon glow. It hung just above her chin, razor-edged like her jawline. The severity of her blunt-cut bangs complemented the stark elegance of her features.​

I'm sure you can do something that fits the story better, but you get the idea. That way you don't have to rely on the reader knowing the name of the hairstyle, and you can use the opportunity to infuse a little character and feeling into it.

 

[NotWise]

If it were my story, I think I'd skip trying to name the hair cut. I'd just describe it in a way that integrated with the story as much as possible:

Her hair shone blue-black in the neon glow. It hung just above her chin, razor-edged like her jawline. The severity of her blunt-cut bangs complemented the stark elegance of her features.​

I'm sure you can do something that fits the story better, but you get the idea. That way you don't have to rely on the reader knowing the name of the hairstyle, and you can use the opportunity to infuse a little character and feeling into it.

Louise Brooks was my visual inspiration for Gabby in "Love is Enough." I didn't know at the time that the photos were of Louise Brooks. Gabby and Hannah were the ghosts of prostitutes who were murdered in 1926. Here is most of their description:

He looked from Hannah, whose blond waves were cropped below her ears and framed blue eyes, to Gabby, whose short, dark hair was cut in a straight line above her brown eyes and curled against her cheek. He laid his head back against the seat and looked up at the ceiling. “You can’t really be here.” he said. “You both look like you stepped out of a 1924 Sears catalog.”

The photos that inspired Hannah were of Clara Bow, whose hair was always hennad red.

 

[gunhilltrain]

If it were my story, I think I'd skip trying to name the hair cut. I'd just describe it in a way that integrated with the story as much as possible:

Her hair shone blue-black in the neon glow. It hung just above her chin, razor-edged like her jawline. The severity of her blunt-cut bangs complemented the stark elegance of her features.​

I'm sure you can do something that fits the story better, but you get the idea. That way you don't have to rely on the reader knowing the name of the hairstyle, and you can use the opportunity to infuse a little character and feeling into it.

I try to avoid really obscure references, but I also think that if readers don't get something, they are free to look it up. Or not; it's their choice.

That sample doesn't seem like my style of writing at all, although I do get that it's merely an example. "Neon glow" reminds me of that Doors song "Soul Kitchen." That starts off in a bar too.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

I try to avoid really obscure references, but I also think that if readers don't get something, they are free to look it up. Or not; it's their choice.

That sample doesn't seem like my style of writing at all, although I do get that it's merely an example. "Neon glow" reminds me of that Doors song "Soul Kitchen." That starts off in a bar too.

I wouldn't expect it to be your style. It's not my style, either. I don't know what's going on in your story or even what color your character's hair is. All I mean is that in two or three sentences, you can convey more than you would convey with the accurate haircut name.

 

[Emirus]

There's a danger in "hairstyle like Louise Brooks" because a lot of people won't know who she was.

Quote:There’s a danger in “hairstyle like Louise Brooks” because a lot of people won’t know who she was. You’ve hit the nail on the head, in respect of one of my pet hates, with that one sentence, NotWise.

This site has a worldwide audience and putting in a specific reference to something related to your own country disturbs the flow of the story which is something no writer wants. As an example, being English, I could use the sentence, “I told him standing there was as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than playing silly mid-off.” The sentence would be understood immediately by someone in Australia, Pakistan, the West Indies and other places. But not by 99.99%, or even more, of Americans.

I’ve read two stories in the last three weeks referring to a “jock.” In one of those in particular it was repeated several time as a description of a person. But there was no explanation of what a “jock” is. For me, it interrupted the flow of the story, in both instances and in the case of the one with several repetitions as I continued to read the story I kept thinking, “how is being a jock relevant to the story?“ I did mention it in another thread hoping, to no avail, an American would put me out of my misery but, unfortunately, it it didn’t happen. I’ve been visiting the USA for nearly fifty years, almost every year for the last fifteen, and I can’t recall ever hearing the term “jock.”

About a year or so ago, on another thread the topic of which I can’t remember, a rather arrogant person telling me, “this is an American site,” and if I didn’t like it I could... I’m glad to say that’s the only time anything like that had occurred.

But the point of my comment is we are all writing for a worldwide audience and, in the example NotWise used, a lot of people won’t know who Louise Brooks was. To many people nowadays twenty years ago is ancient history.

There was an example just recently of a black woman in London, a pastor and Chair of a Police Advisory Group, on national television news discussing her wanting a statue of Winston Churchill removed. She stated, “I’ve heard both sides. Some people say he’s a hero. Some people say he’s a racist. I HAVEN’T MET HIM PERSONALLY.” She’s 46 and she doesn’t know one of the most famous people of the twentieth century died fifty five years ago! Can you imagine the response to a 46 year old American saying “I haven’t met Franklin D. Roosevelt personally?” So whatever you do (this is a joke!) don’t mention Winston Churchill or FDR in any story you may write.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Quote:There’s a danger in “hairstyle like Louise Brooks” because a lot of people won’t know who she was. You’ve hit the nail on the head, in respect of one of my pet hates, with that one sentence, NotWise.

This site has a worldwide audience and putting in a specific reference to something related to your own country disturbs the flow of the story which is something no writer wants. As an example, being English, I could use the sentence, “I told him standing there was as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than playing silly mid-off.” The sentence would be understood immediately by someone in Australia, Pakistan, the West Indies and other places. But not by 99.99%, or even more, of Americans.

I’ve read two stories in the last three weeks referring to a “jock.” In one of those in particular it was repeated several time as a description of a person. But there was no explanation of what a “jock” is. For me, it interrupted the flow of the story, in both instances and in the case of the one with several repetitions as I continued to read the story I kept thinking, “how is being a jock relevant to the story?“ I did mention it in another thread hoping, to no avail, an American would put me out of my misery but, unfortunately, it it didn’t happen. I’ve been visiting the USA for nearly fifty years, almost every year for the last fifteen, and I can’t recall ever hearing the term “jock.”

About a year or so ago, on another thread the topic of which I can’t remember, a rather arrogant person telling me, “this is an American site,” and if I didn’t like it I could... I’m glad to say that’s the only time anything like that had occurred.

But the point of my comment is we are all writing for a worldwide audience and, in the example NotWise used, a lot of people won’t know who Louise Brooks was. To many people nowadays twenty years ago is ancient history.

There was an example just recently of a black woman in London, a pastor and Chair of a Police Advisory Group, on national television news discussing her wanting a statue of Winston Churchill removed. She stated, “I’ve heard both sides. Some people say he’s a hero. Some people say he’s a racist. I HAVEN’T MET HIM PERSONALLY.” She’s 46 and she doesn’t know one of the most famous people of the twentieth century died fifty five years ago! Can you imagine the response to a 46 year old American saying “I haven’t met Franklin D. Roosevelt personally?” So whatever you do (this is a joke!) don’t mention Winston Churchill or FDR in any story you may write.

I rather suspect that that someone who didn't realize Churchill is long dead wouldn't realize FDR was, either. That's not being American. That's being ignorant. Practically everyone knows who Churchill is. How could anyone get through high school history without knowing that? I'm suspect the woman you refer to would have had the same deficit no matter which country she lived in.

I think the challenge with some of the "American" versus "British" English words is that we don't necessarily know which words wouldn't be understood. You may not have run into "jock" before, but it's extremely common. It's so common that it wouldn't have crossed my mind to ask myself whether it was American slang. One doesn't necessarily know that the word they use isn't the word other English speakers use.

Personally, I've never been bothered when I read a story that's full of British-isms or Aussie-isms. I'd prefer the authors left those phrases and words in. It adds interest and flavor. The majority of the time, I think the meaning is obvious from the context. But, if it isn't obvious, that's no big deal. If I'm reading something on Lit, I'm already touching a device capable of looking something up on the internet. The exception to that is cockney rhyming slang, because there's just no way to decode it.

 

[Jada59]

Here's Louis Brooks and her haircut.

Her biographer called it a "Dutch Boy." I think when she was most popular in New York and in Paris it was sometimes called a "Brooks." It could be called a bob and everyone would get it, except the few that know there's more than one kind of bob.

There's a danger in "hairstyle like Louise Brooks" because a lot of people won't know who she was.

I's call that a flapper bob!

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It adds interest and flavor. The majority of the time, I think the meaning is obvious from the context. But, if it isn't obvious, that's no big deal. If I'm reading something on Lit, I'm already touching a device capable of looking something up on the internet. The exception to that is cockney rhyming slang, because there's just no way to decode it.

I too like stories that show me a subculture or location I'm unfamiliar with, or in a new light. And I will happily 'run-and-find-out' and look things up (like Louise Brooks just now) and consider that an addition to a story, not a subtraction.

I'm aware though that many readers just want an easy read, with sex, and object to having to think at the same time. I'm not writing for them; those authors aren't writing for me.

I grew up on 80s movies including The Breakfast Club, so the jock stereotype is familiar, but sometimes I've encountered stories where a jock is an item of underwear, presumably a jockstrap, which I'm rather hazy about when then character isn't a male stripper.

Given a bob describes the hair of half the straight-haired female population, I'd go for 'a sleek bob, sharply pointed at the front' or 'a angular bob with a severe fringe/severe bangs' or 'a dark pageboy bob', etc.

Rhyming slang is as googlable as anything else, nowadays. I've resisted it in my current work, except for one remark, where a stranger approaches our man who's just been fucked in a sauna and asks if he wants "another cock up your Gary?"

In case it's not obvious enough from context, the protagonist muses that he's not a fan of his hole being called a shitter, before declining for plot-related reasons.

 

[NotWise]

I’ve read two stories in the last three weeks referring to a “jock.” In one of those in particular it was repeated several time as a description of a person. But there was no explanation of what a “jock” is. For me, it interrupted the flow of the story, in both instances and in the case of the one with several repetitions as I continued to read the story I kept thinking, “how is being a jock relevant to the story?“ I did mention it in another thread hoping, to no avail, an American would put me out of my misery but, unfortunately, it it didn’t happen. I’ve been visiting the USA for nearly fifty years, almost every year for the last fifteen, and I can’t recall ever hearing the term “jock.”

"Jock" is a high school-ism for an athlete. It usually refers to them as part of a social clique rather than as an athlete, with a crude and boisterous implication.

 

[Voboy]

I rather suspect that that someone who didn't realize Churchill is long dead wouldn't realize FDR was, either. That's not being American. That's being ignorant. Practically everyone knows who Churchill is. How could anyone get through high school history without knowing that? I'm suspect the woman you refer to would have had the same deficit no matter which country she lived in.

I think the challenge with some of the "American" versus "British" English words is that we don't necessarily know which words wouldn't be understood. You may not have run into "jock" before, but it's extremely common. It's so common that it wouldn't have crossed my mind to ask myself whether it was American slang. One doesn't necessarily know that the word they use isn't the word other English speakers use.

Personally, I've never been bothered when I read a story that's full of British-isms or Aussie-isms. I'd prefer the authors left those phrases and words in. It adds interest and flavor. The majority of the time, I think the meaning is obvious from the context. But, if it isn't obvious, that's no big deal. If I'm reading something on Lit, I'm already touching a device capable of looking something up on the internet. The exception to that is cockney rhyming slang, because there's just no way to decode it.

This.

Jock is a term I've used before, too (though not to often), and with no fucks given. It's being replaced by "bro," seemingly, or by the annoying family of words Bro has spawned (broseph, bromance, etc).

I think the specific problem with "Jock" in Britain is that it's a centuries-old nickname for a guy from Scotland. If Jock had no meaning in British English, I bet it would cause less confusion because the reader would simply look it up. But I suspect a British person reading a US story would presume they already know what a Jock is: a Scot. I can see how that'd be confusing.

 

[NotWise]

I grew up on 80s movies including The Breakfast Club, so the jock stereotype is familiar, but sometimes I've encountered stories where a jock is an item of underwear, presumably a jockstrap, which I'm rather hazy about when then character isn't a male stripper.

A jockstrap is supportive underwear worn by men during non-contact athletic activities. For events with contact, they'd wear a cup, which is similar to a jockstrap, but with a hard cup covering the genitals.

I'm not sure about the etymology; whether "jock" came first and "jockstrap" was coined as something a jock wears, or whether "jockstrap" came first and "jock" was derived by shortening it.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I rather suspect that that someone who didn't realize Churchill is long dead wouldn't realize FDR was, either. That's not being American. That's being ignorant. Practically everyone knows who Churchill is. How could anyone get through high school history without knowing that? I'm suspect the woman you refer to would have had the same deficit no matter which country she lived in.

I think the challenge with some of the "American" versus "British" English words is that we don't necessarily know which words wouldn't be understood. You may not have run into "jock" before, but it's extremely common. It's so common that it wouldn't have crossed my mind to ask myself whether it was American slang. One doesn't necessarily know that the word they use isn't the word other English speakers use.

Personally, I've never been bothered when I read a story that's full of British-isms or Aussie-isms. I'd prefer the authors left those phrases and words in. It adds interest and flavor. The majority of the time, I think the meaning is obvious from the context. But, if it isn't obvious, that's no big deal. If I'm reading something on Lit, I'm already touching a device capable of looking something up on the internet. The exception to that is cockney rhyming slang, because there's just no way to decode it.

I would agree. If you've seen Jay Leno's Jaywalking videos and his many imitators, you'll see people can't say who won the American Civil War or the Vietnam War, much less who the combatants were and what they were fighting for.

So, shrug. I keep the readers in mind, but I can't spoon feed them everything. I recently mentioned "roll signs" in subway cars. From the rest of the paragraph, it's obvious they are destination signs (they are going electronic now).

I once had someone comment to me, "Wouldn't it be great if the subways ran on electricity?" I don't know what she thought they used, maybe Diesel.

Speaking of trains, there is the novel Trainspotting, which is actually about drug addicts. I don't know if the term is even in the text; I couldn't read it because of the thick accents or burrs or whatever in the dialogue. "Trainspotters" is the British term for what Americans call rail fans or train buffs. Then there are people who will ask, "What is a rail fan?"

 

[Voboy]

A jockstrap is supportive underwear worn by men during non-contact athletic activities. For events with contact, they'd wear a cup, which is similar to a jockstrap, but with a hard cup covering the genitals.

I'm not sure about the etymology; whether "jock" came first and "jockstrap" was coined as something a jock wears, or whether "jockstrap" came first and "jock" was derived by shortening it.

Jockstrap came first. Jocks were the people who needed to wear them.

Jockstrap came from "jockey," as in a person who rides a horse or bike. No idea where jockey comes from, but it's a fun word.

 

[Voboy]

...there is the novel Trainspotting, which is actually about drug addicts. I don't know if the term is even in the text; I couldn't read it because of the thick accents or burrs or whatever in the dialogue.

It's used mockingly in a chapter title, and metaphorically for the overall lifestyle.

 

[TxRad]

First it was the spelling police and then the grammar police and now it's the fashion police. Will the madness ever stop?

 

[SimonDoom]

I’ve read two stories in the last three weeks referring to a “jock.” In one of those in particular it was repeated several time as a description of a person. But there was no explanation of what a “jock” is. For me, it interrupted the flow of the story, in both instances and in the case of the one with several repetitions as I continued to read the story I kept thinking, “how is being a jock relevant to the story?“ I did mention it in another thread hoping, to no avail, an American would put me out of my misery but, unfortunately, it it didn’t happen. I’ve been visiting the USA for nearly fifty years, almost every year for the last fifteen, and I can’t recall ever hearing the term “jock.”

.

This is fascinating to me. I try in my writing not to be "too American" in my word choice, but it would never have occurred to me that someone wouldn't know what a "jock" is. A jock is an athlete, and the word carries the implication that he doesn't care about much other than sports.

According to etymonline.com, "jock" was slang for penis going back to the 17th century. The term "jockstrap" emerged with the development of athletic supporters in the late 19th century, and then the term "jock" emerged about 50-60 years ago to describe an athlete, probably derived from "jockstrap."