Searching for discussion and feedback

[Origin40]

My story: "Picking up the Pieces" was a departure for me as it is written as an f/f story. People seem to have enjoyed it based on "rating" but it only has a third of the views as some of my other more popular stories. Is this typical of stories in the Lesbian category, or is it possibly an issue with it being a little bit more lengthy? (Side note: is a view counted as someone who viewed each page of the story, or just opened it up once?)

I really liked the characters of this story, and enjoyed writing them. With some story ideas I just sort of have a scenario and come up with characters that fit. In this case I wrote for the characters and just let it unfold as I was typing.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any feedback if you have the chance.

Thanks,

Origin

https://www.literotica.com/s/picking-up-the-pieces-2

 

[ElectricBlue]

Each category has its own dynamic, so it's unwise to compare from one to the other.

A View is counted when someone clicks on the first page. They might click back out ten seconds later but you'll never know, not with a standalone story.

 

[Jada59]

Since I'm not into f/f, I would not be likely to read the story. But that's just me...

 

[GroverLang]

I don’t read lesbian stories and would never be able to write one although some men do and I would think many of them do a good job. But personally I’m a man and woman person so the Gay category will not be blessed with my inadequacies either.

I’ve just looked at the first page of the story and at your views and favourites. It’s been up for three weeks and you’ve got 8201 views with 19 favourites. I assume stories don’t stay on the first page in the lesbian category more than any other so the vast majority of those views and favourites must have been collected in a very short time.

Personally I take favourites with a pinch of salt. When I first started I would check back and then see some people have hundreds of favourites which is, in my opinion, probably makes them favouriting my story meaningless. Also, as EB66 says, a view is logged even if someone only logs on the first page as I did, and moved on without reading any further. I believe the main reason someone clicks on a story is because the title and description attracted them to it.

I would say the vast majority of new writers, and many with a lot of red stories to their name, would be very happy with those figures. I can’t see why you feel disappointed.

You do have me wondering what a “meat lover pizza” is? Some kinky phrase I haven’t come across? Generally, from what little I read, I think your writing is good but if you don’t use an editor you should consider using one.

 

[Jada59]

I don’t read lesbian stories and would never be able to write one although some men do and I would think many of them do a good job. But personally I’m a man and woman person so the Gay category will not be blessed with my inadequacies either.

I’ve just looked at the first page of the story and at your views and favourites. It’s been up for three weeks and you’ve got 8201 views with 19 favourites. I assume stories don’t stay on the first page in the lesbian category more than any other so the vast majority of those views and favourites must have been collected in a very short time.

Personally I take favourites with a pinch of salt. When I first started I would check back and then see some people have hundreds of favourites which is, in my opinion, probably makes them favouriting my story meaningless. Also, as EB66 says, a view is logged even if someone only logs on the first page as I did, and moved on without reading any further. I believe the main reason someone clicks on a story is because the title and description attracted them to it.

I would say the vast majority of new writers, and many with a lot of red stories to their name, would be very happy with those figures. I can’t see why you feel disappointed.

You do have me wondering what a “meat lover pizza” is? Some kinky phrase I haven’t come across? Generally, from what little I read, I think your writing is good but if you don’t use an editor you should consider using one.

Okay... I had tio read it to see what that euphemism was. I discovered a mistake along the way. The word "for" instead of "from" in relation to the plates and cupboard.

I found this sentence to be awkward: "When she had first gotten it I had teased her a little about the minivan, but it had come in handy when bringing a group of girls to team dinners."

I would rephrase that to, "When she first got it..."

Now for the pizza. This from the Pizza Hut website: "Meat lover's pizza is the perfect game day pizza, packed with pepperoni, Italian sausage, ham, bacon, seasoned pork and beef. Order pizza online now.
For a limited time, seasoned pork topping may be replaced with beef due to supply constraints."

JMO, but in this area (Suburb of Seattle), Pizza Hut food is not considered edible. I don't know how they stay in business. Perhaps they are better elsewhere. AFAIK, they are all takeout/delivery in this area. They were dine in when I was a child. I always had the salad bar when we ate there. That's how bad the pizza was. Ate at another dine in location in PA, 20some years ago. I was actually shocked the family who took me out to dinner chose that place. They are wealthy and Italian! There are ton of really good Italian places in that area. Again, inedible pizza. Bland, doughy and greasy. Especially the ones with meat toppings.

 

[LWulf]

As others have said, I'm not into lesbian stories, but I do actually try to read and give feedback where I can. I tend to gloss over parts that don't interest me, which may include observations that could have been helpful, if I had been interested enough to read it.

First, as an observation, I see you've published 6 stories in a short amount of time. This makes me think one of two scenarios: You write very quickly (it only took me 8+ years to write my first story, 2+ years for my second story...), or, you've written and stored a bunch of stories and for some odd reason, decided to start publishing them somewhere.
There is nothing wrong with either scenario, but it DOES allow for your stories to potentially have and repeat certain foibles that might have been corrected if you had published one at a time.
It's water under the bridge now, but something to consider before you publish your next six.

My first gut reaction is your saying "Also, I felt this one deserved a bit of build up, so if you are looking for a quick fix you might want to skip towards the end" is unnecessary. Don't let people know what they can do, as they will already have done it or else they would rather back out of reading instead of searching for where it gets "juicy," regardless. For some people, like myself that likes a slow build-up, that part of the foreword is a stumble block.
In other words, you're not helping those who might have used it, and slowing down those who wouldn't use it.

Also, there is a way of making sequential chapters in a story, making the foreword "This story continues on from where my other story, 'Choices,' left off, though reading that one is not necessary to enjoy this story" equally unnecessary. Please look for answers in the "How to" section of the forum.

Some would say "All characters are over the age of 18." is equally unnecessary, but as I do so myself, I won't fault you on that.

Now to the story... (just to explain, I write a review as I read the story)
Why you did the time sequence as a countdown, I don't know. It seems odd to me. Perhaps you thought you were building interest/excitement. It just seemed backwards to me. Stating "aftermath" seems redundant to me. It's like posting an alert "Crazy Monkey Sex" prior to a segment that contains salacious text, instead of just getting to it. However, that is just an opinion, and may lead to your style which is incontestable. It just didn't make sense to me.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you put in a few, extra, redundant, modifiers. Basically, you give an excessive amount of detail, where it is unnecessary. Not "excessive" as in "all over the place," but just more detail than needed to explain a concept. For instance:
"The other was my bedroom with its own full bathroom"
As a professional interior designer, I've never heard of a bedroom that had a half bath. Does that mean they don't exist? No, but since it's highly uncommon, it shouldn't be needed to note it.

For that matter, unless the house had 4 bedrooms, and the only child decided to move out of one of the upstairs bedrooms, to move into the basement bedroom, saying "The basement was finished. I had made it mine." is a logic error, or you haven't explained the situation well enough.

Okay, this seems odd. In one paragraph, you state "Going to the front door to wait for Susan" and then a few paragraphs later, "I stood awkwardly in the kitchen waiting for Susan to arrive." Some house layouts have a kitchen next to the front door, but keep your story consistent. State where the front door is in relation to the kitchen and keep the kitchen as the goal destination.

Presumably, these are high school seniors (over 18)... and one has a minivan??? It might be easier to describe that it's her parent's minivan which she uses...

Comments I am giving aren't suggestions to go back to edit your story, but to make you consider what you're doing in future stories.
"...I had gotten her for her birthday a couple weeks back."
would be "...I had gotten it for her birthday..." or some variance. Don't rely on spell check to check for errors. Try to read a story out loud to yourself to look for grammatical errors.

Counter to the "you show too much detail" comment, try to remember that nobody knows what you know.
"All I got was a muted, 'Hey,' in response."
Is this something common to this character? Is it a warning to Jenn that something is drastically wrong? A statement doesn't necessarily describe a mood. In some places I've lived, "hey" is perfectly normal. True, denoting it as "muted" suggests something is wrong, BUT, then Jenn decides to offer lunch, so it sounds less troubling than Jenn's reaction.
I could instead hammer on "consistency" or go into the flow of dialogue being unnatural. Teens aren't always the most logical beings on the planet, but as a reader, I'm not a teen. My point is, don't make it so only another teen would understand the progression of events.

Why is Jenn idly waiting for Susan to come by before she reheats food she was going to eat anyway? She's in the kitchen. She sets out plates for eating, then like a lemming waits for Susan to arrive; time stands still.
?!?

You might think you wrote the story "naturally" but your perspective is all over the place. I'm the last person to comment on keeping perspective straight, but your story so far was from the first person perspective, but then you mention how Susan popped her head out of the kitchen to speak to Jenn's parents, by describing things that only Susan or her parents would know/see, you changed perspective. How does Jenn know Susan smiled at Jenn's dad's comment?
Consistency.
You can change perspectives in a story, but they shouldn't be as easily flipped as a pancake on a griddle.

"I hope you like meat lovers? Can you grab these while I grab some water?"
She cares what food Susan likes but doesn't seem concerned about beverages? For that matter, wouldn't a friend of a few years know what foods their friend likes? Wouldn't that have been the first question before reheating?

"Miss Carragher hasn't even been at the school that long. How did she find out? It doesn't matter."
Omniscient characters explained by weak argument. Not a fan. "I transposed (something) from Lisa's sister's paper, that got me caught." Plausibly explains more but suggests Susan as an airhead. Something is better than nothing.

Technically speaking, "Or I could elect to recieve [sic] corporal punishment." while any student attending school may be potentially disciplined (including those over 18 in high school) a majority of states that permit corporal punishment require that parental consent be given before children may be paddled.
The point being that Jenn shouldn't be that shocked the CP card was brought up.

Okay, you pretty much lost me when you said the Principal, or whatever Mr Erikson is, touched Susan provocatively after paddling/spanking her, when she didn't want it.

Sorry, but this form of non-consent I don't like.

 

[Abbafan]

I must admit if I see that a story is longer, I tend to skip it, even if highly rated. I like some characterization and that sort of thing, but I'm not out to read a novel.

 

[NotWise]

I read the first page of the story then skimmed the rest to make sure my initial impressions held true. Take my comments with that in mind.

Your story is awash in detail. I'm prone to adding a lot of detail myself. They have a role in good short story writing, but they need to be used judiciously. In this case, I thought it was hard to find the story among all the details.

It's hard to find the plot among the subplots. I think the plot itself is a pretty straight line to two friends having sex. I imagine you used those subplots to add flesh to the characters, and to add bulk to an otherwise simple story. That isn't necessarily a problem, but it seemed like too much.

Technically, you use similar sentence structures repeatedly, and you mix tenses a lot. For instance, "Running over to Susan, I shoved them out of the way." Not only do sentences structured like that example appear over and over (and sometimes in sequence), but the example combines present tense and past tense. An alternative in this case would be "I ran over to Susan and shoved them out of the way." I don't know that this is a grammatical problem. As a reader it became a problem because it was repeated so often.

You overuse adverbs. As a simple example, "I dutifully put it on." You can just say, "I put it on." "Dutifully" doesn't add anything. There are many examples like that, especially near the beginning of the story.

The dialogue often seems unnatural to me, and sometime it adds nothing to the story. It's hard to criticize dialogue, because it's your characters' voices and you need to write it their way, so I'll just leave it at that.

Consider getting help from an editor. There are quite a few punctuation problems, sentence fragments, and other errors. But mechanics aside, an editor might help you boil the story down a little, or make the details and subplots more meaningful. I feel like this story should be about two thirds its current size -- maybe even less.

 

[Origin40]

I would say the vast majority of new writers, and many with a lot of red stories to their name, would be very happy with those figures. I can’t see why you feel disappointed.

You do have me wondering what a “meat lover pizza” is? Some kinky phrase I haven’t come across? Generally, from what little I read, I think your writing is good but if you don’t use an editor you should consider using one.

I'm not disappointed with the numbers, but I was just trying to discern the underlying reason one story might have different numbers than another.

Now for the pizza....

Ha! Meat lover/Meat lover's pizza is a general shorthand for me for any pizza that has three or more meats: pepperoni, sausage, ham, bacon, capicola, etc.

Some would say "All characters are over the age of 18." is equally unnecessary, but as I do so myself, I won't fault you on that.

Now to the story... (just to explain, I write a review as I read the story)
Why you did the time sequence as a countdown, It was meant to be showing a text conversation. As hard as I tried I couldn't get left and right justified for the two sides of conversation to work. It may have been more clear if I had led in with "Jenn felt a buzz in her pocket, pulling out her phone she had saw she had a message." It was an experiment that I tried, but the timestamps of the messages have some small meaning later on

Presumably, these are high school seniors (over 18)... and one has a minivan??? It might be easier to describe that it's her parent's minivan which she uses...

Potentially...or she could have gotten an old, cheap minivan when she got her license...or one of her parents gave her their old car and upgraded when they didn't have to drive Susan around anymore. Perhaps another situation where I could have been more clear, but certainly not inconceivable.

You might think you wrote the story "naturally" but your perspective is all over the place. I'm the last person to comment on keeping perspective straight, but your story so far was from the first person perspective, but then you mention how Susan popped her head out of the kitchen to speak to Jenn's parents, by describing things that only Susan or her parents would know/see, you changed perspective. How does Jenn know Susan smiled at Jenn's dad's comment?
Consistency.

Another situation where you don't necessarily have to do mental gymnastics to envision Jenn being able to see Susan as she is talking to Jenn's parents, and her the conversation between them. However, again I could make this more explicit.

"Miss Carragher hasn't even been at the school that long. How did she find out? It doesn't matter."[/I]
Omniscient characters explained by weak argument.

Who is omniscient in this case? Susan? Miss Carragher?

I read the first page of the story then skimmed the rest to make sure my initial impressions held true. Take my comments with that in mind.

Your story is awash in detail. I'm prone to adding a lot of detail myself. They have a role in good short story writing, but they need to be used judiciously. In this case, I thought it was hard to find the story among all the details.

It's hard to find the plot among the subplots. I think the plot itself is a pretty straight line to two friends having sex. I imagine you used those subplots to add flesh to the characters, and to add bulk to an otherwise simple story. That isn't necessarily a problem, but it seemed like too much.

Entirely fair. I wanted it to be a little more than Susan confessing her crush to Jenn and the two of them having getting it on. The goal was to connect the end of the previous story to the end of this one, and to the subplots generally enabled that. As you mention later, the subplots could be refined.

Technically, you use similar sentence structures repeatedly...

You overuse adverbs...

The dialogue often seems unnatural to me....

Consider getting help from an editor.

Thank you everyone for providing feedback. I tried to address individual responses, but basically: "You will benefit from working with an editor."

 

[Jada59]

As others have said, I'm not into lesbian stories, but I do actually try to read and give feedback where I can. I tend to gloss over parts that don't interest me, which may include observations that could have been helpful, if I had been interested enough to read it.

First, as an observation, I see you've published 6 stories in a short amount of time. This makes me think one of two scenarios: You write very quickly (it only took me 8+ years to write my first story, 2+ years for my second story...), or, you've written and stored a bunch of stories and for some odd reason, decided to start publishing them somewhere.
There is nothing wrong with either scenario, but it DOES allow for your stories to potentially have and repeat certain foibles that might have been corrected if you had published one at a time.
It's water under the bridge now, but something to consider before you publish your next six.

My first gut reaction is your saying "Also, I felt this one deserved a bit of build up, so if you are looking for a quick fix you might want to skip towards the end" is unnecessary. Don't let people know what they can do, as they will already have done it or else they would rather back out of reading instead of searching for where it gets "juicy," regardless. For some people, like myself that likes a slow build-up, that part of the foreword is a stumble block.
In other words, you're not helping those who might have used it, and slowing down those who wouldn't use it.

Also, there is a way of making sequential chapters in a story, making the foreword "This story continues on from where my other story, 'Choices,' left off, though reading that one is not necessary to enjoy this story" equally unnecessary. Please look for answers in the "How to" section of the forum.

Some would say "All characters are over the age of 18." is equally unnecessary, but as I do so myself, I won't fault you on that.

Now to the story... (just to explain, I write a review as I read the story)
Why you did the time sequence as a countdown, I don't know. It seems odd to me. Perhaps you thought you were building interest/excitement. It just seemed backwards to me. Stating "aftermath" seems redundant to me. It's like posting an alert "Crazy Monkey Sex" prior to a segment that contains salacious text, instead of just getting to it. However, that is just an opinion, and may lead to your style which is incontestable. It just didn't make sense to me.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you put in a few, extra, redundant, modifiers. Basically, you give an excessive amount of detail, where it is unnecessary. Not "excessive" as in "all over the place," but just more detail than needed to explain a concept. For instance:
"The other was my bedroom with its own full bathroom"
As a professional interior designer, I've never heard of a bedroom that had a half bath. Does that mean they don't exist? No, but since it's highly uncommon, it shouldn't be needed to note it.

For that matter, unless the house had 4 bedrooms, and the only child decided to move out of one of the upstairs bedrooms, to move into the basement bedroom, saying "The basement was finished. I had made it mine." is a logic error, or you haven't explained the situation well enough.

Okay, this seems odd. In one paragraph, you state "Going to the front door to wait for Susan" and then a few paragraphs later, "I stood awkwardly in the kitchen waiting for Susan to arrive." Some house layouts have a kitchen next to the front door, but keep your story consistent. State where the front door is in relation to the kitchen and keep the kitchen as the goal destination.

Presumably, these are high school seniors (over 18)... and one has a minivan??? It might be easier to describe that it's her parent's minivan which she uses...

Comments I am giving aren't suggestions to go back to edit your story, but to make you consider what you're doing in future stories.
"...I had gotten her for her birthday a couple weeks back."
would be "...I had gotten it for her birthday..." or some variance. Don't rely on spell check to check for errors. Try to read a story out loud to yourself to look for grammatical errors.

Counter to the "you show too much detail" comment, try to remember that nobody knows what you know.
"All I got was a muted, 'Hey,' in response."
Is this something common to this character? Is it a warning to Jenn that something is drastically wrong? A statement doesn't necessarily describe a mood. In some places I've lived, "hey" is perfectly normal. True, denoting it as "muted" suggests something is wrong, BUT, then Jenn decides to offer lunch, so it sounds less troubling than Jenn's reaction.
I could instead hammer on "consistency" or go into the flow of dialogue being unnatural. Teens aren't always the most logical beings on the planet, but as a reader, I'm not a teen. My point is, don't make it so only another teen would understand the progression of events.

Why is Jenn idly waiting for Susan to come by before she reheats food she was going to eat anyway? She's in the kitchen. She sets out plates for eating, then like a lemming waits for Susan to arrive; time stands still.
?!?

You might think you wrote the story "naturally" but your perspective is all over the place. I'm the last person to comment on keeping perspective straight, but your story so far was from the first person perspective, but then you mention how Susan popped her head out of the kitchen to speak to Jenn's parents, by describing things that only Susan or her parents would know/see, you changed perspective. How does Jenn know Susan smiled at Jenn's dad's comment?
Consistency.
You can change perspectives in a story, but they shouldn't be as easily flipped as a pancake on a griddle.

"I hope you like meat lovers? Can you grab these while I grab some water?"
She cares what food Susan likes but doesn't seem concerned about beverages? For that matter, wouldn't a friend of a few years know what foods their friend likes? Wouldn't that have been the first question before reheating?

"Miss Carragher hasn't even been at the school that long. How did she find out? It doesn't matter."
Omniscient characters explained by weak argument. Not a fan. "I transposed (something) from Lisa's sister's paper, that got me caught." Plausibly explains more but suggests Susan as an airhead. Something is better than nothing.

Technically speaking, "Or I could elect to recieve [sic] corporal punishment." while any student attending school may be potentially disciplined (including those over 18 in high school) a majority of states that permit corporal punishment require that parental consent be given before children may be paddled.
The point being that Jenn shouldn't be that shocked the CP card was brought up.

Okay, you pretty much lost me when you said the Principal, or whatever Mr Erikson is, touched Susan provocatively after paddling/spanking her, when she didn't want it.

Sorry, but this form of non-consent I don't like.

Just a quick comment to you on the bathroom. Older houses/apartments/condos built from approx. the 1960's and 1970's, did indeed often have half baths off of the master bedroom. At least in the Seattle area. If a basement had a bathroom at all, it was usually a half bath.

These days, half baths are uncommon in new construction.

 

[Bramblethorn]

My story: "Picking up the Pieces" was a departure for me as it is written as an f/f story. People seem to have enjoyed it based on "rating" but it only has a third of the views as some of my other more popular stories. Is this typical of stories in the Lesbian category, or is it possibly an issue with it being a little bit more lengthy?[/url]

8k views in the first couple of weeks is about typical for that category, in my experience.