The existence of ghosts and spirits

[Comshaw]

That particular subject was brought up in another discussion yesterday. I personally do not believe ghosts or spirits exist in the popularly understood definition. I wish I did. I really do. The idea of those who have passed but are still around is an enticing pleasant thought. There very well may be another plane of existence, but I can not accept that premise without some kind of proof.

There have been many who claimed to have seen ghosts. I can neither say they speak true or not. I can say there has never been any valid proof ghosts and spirits exist. This article from the Atlantic has a very thought provoking take on the subject: hallucinations.

"This hierarchy perspective represents an ongoing revelation in how widespread and varied hallucinations can be. A survey in the early 1990s found that 10 to 15 percent of the population of the United States experienced vivid sensory hallucinations at some point in their lives. And scientists have begun to take seriously the idea that voice hearing and other forms of auditory hallucination can be benign or “nonclinical.” This newfound ubiquity has come with a host of questions. Why is it so common for people to perceive what isn’t there, and how does the brain allow this to happen in the first place? To find answers, researchers have turned to the mechanics of how we perceive reality itself."


https://getpocket.com/explore/item/hallucinations-are-everywhere?utm_source=pocket-newtab


Comshaw

 

[rae121452]

i grew up in a house that had a very benign ghost. we never saw him but he made himself known in various other ways, unless my whole family of 7 were simultaneously hallucinating.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Science has a hard time dealing with where to stick that pesky human soul when the body dies, so man invented religion.

 

[Queersetti]

https://i.imgur.com/Si4J1Pf.gif

 

[Comshaw]

i grew up in a house that had a very benign ghost. we never saw him but he made himself known in various other ways, unless my whole family of 7 were simultaneously hallucinating.

If that is what you believe, that is what you believe. However, there has never been any credible evidence of the existence of ghosts. Until the time it's proven I'm afraid I'll have to disbelieve. And what the article is talking about very well could be a hereditary trait.

Comshaw

 

[SpeareChucker]

I saw something on the local news, one of those guys
on one of the Ghost Shows was explaining that sightings
are increasing. This might be a sign of stress/boredom...





:shrug:

 

[HisArpy]

As I mentioned in the other thread/discussion I have seen a ghost. I have also lived in a house where doors which were closed and latched opened on their own. Other people witnessed one of those events. In that house visible clouds of smoke would suddenly appear and then just as suddenly disappear in 1 of the bedrooms. It smelled like a cigar. Again, there were other witnesses to this.

It's not conclusive. It is empirical evidence that there is some force, about which we don't understand, that is manipulating the physical world. For ease of discussion, that force is call "ghosts".

 

[Comshaw]

As I mentioned in the other thread/discussion I have seen a ghost. I have also lived in a house where doors which were closed and latched opened on their own. Other people witnessed one of those events. In that house visible clouds of smoke would suddenly appear and then just as suddenly disappear in 1 of the bedrooms. It smelled like a cigar. Again, there were other witnesses to this.

It's not conclusive. It is empirical evidence that there is some force, about which we don't understand, that is manipulating the physical world. For ease of discussion, that force is call "ghosts".

Unfortunately what you describe isn't verifiable empirical evidence, because only you saw it and it can not be repeated to substantiate that it exists. If you read the article you will find that all of that very well COULD BE a hallucination. As I've said, there is no valid evidence that ghosts or some force unknown to us, exists and manifests in such a manner.


Comshaw

 

[HisArpy]

Unfortunately what you describe isn't verifiable empirical evidence, because only you saw it and it can not be repeated to substantiate that it exists. If you read the article you will find that all of that very well COULD BE a hallucination. As I've said, there is no valid evidence that ghosts or some force unknown to us, exists and manifests in such a manner.


Comshaw

I was alone when I saw the ghost.

I wasn't alone when the doors opened and the smoke appeared/disappeared on multiple occasions.

Mass hallucination is either a myth or the collective use of mind altering substances.

The "no valid evidence" theory fails to account for bacteria born illness in the pre-modern era.

 

[dolf]

I have seen ghosts.

I believe it's just a brain misfire.
When we're gone, we're nothing but worm food.

 

[HisArpy]

I have seen ghosts.

I believe it's just a brain misfire.
When we're gone, we're nothing but worm food.

Tasty worm food.

Otherwise, I'm sure the worms would object to so much of us.

 

[Conager]

Hey, according to your "math" if you get exposed to the Wuhan, China Coronavirus you have a one in five chance of finding out for yourself.

There is pretty good literature on the idea that one's expectations has a significant effect on mortality, so don't let me disabuse you of your fears.

 

[Conager]

I saw something on the local news, one of those guys
on one of the Ghost Shows was explaining that sightings
are increasing. This might be a sign of stress/boredom...





:shrug:

The incidence of UFO sightings and the general descriptions parallel with science fiction releases. People see what they have been conditioned to expect to see. Humans are terrible eyewitnesses, but they are the best species we have for the job.

 

[MartinHeidegger]

The actual practice of science should be humble, always questioning, creative, inquisitive, and willing to set aside assumptions.

Having said that, is there currently any credible evidence for the existence of ghosts? No, of course not.

 

[Rightguide]

That particular subject was brought up in another discussion yesterday. I personally do not believe ghosts or spirits exist in the popularly understood definition. I wish I did. I really do. The idea of those who have passed but are still around is an enticing pleasant thought. There very well may be another plane of existence, but I can not accept that premise without some kind of proof.

There have been many who claimed to have seen ghosts. I can neither say they speak true or not. I can say there has never been any valid proof ghosts and spirits exist. This article from the Atlantic has a very thought provoking take on the subject: hallucinations.

"This hierarchy perspective represents an ongoing revelation in how widespread and varied hallucinations can be. A survey in the early 1990s found that 10 to 15 percent of the population of the United States experienced vivid sensory hallucinations at some point in their lives. And scientists have begun to take seriously the idea that voice hearing and other forms of auditory hallucination can be benign or “nonclinical.” This newfound ubiquity has come with a host of questions. Why is it so common for people to perceive what isn’t there, and how does the brain allow this to happen in the first place? To find answers, researchers have turned to the mechanics of how we perceive reality itself."


https://getpocket.com/explore/item/hallucinations-are-everywhere?utm_source=pocket-newtab


Comshaw

We know for a fact the Democrat Party has been hallucinating about Trump for four years now and has also been hard at work conjuring up the ghost of Karl Marx as well.

 

[Conager]

Until the science us settled, you mean.

 

[MartinHeidegger]

We know for a fact the Democrat Party has been hallucinating about Trump for four years now and has also been hard at work conjuring up the ghost of Karl Marx as well.

From ghosts to Trump in 15 posts. Huzzah!

 

[enigma3]

As I mentioned in the other thread/discussion I have seen a ghost. I have also lived in a house where doors which were closed and latched opened on their own. Other people witnessed one of those events. In that house visible clouds of smoke would suddenly appear and then just as suddenly disappear in 1 of the bedrooms. It smelled like a cigar. Again, there were other witnesses to this.

It's not conclusive. It is empirical evidence that there is some force, about which we don't understand, that is manipulating the physical world. For ease of discussion, that force is call "ghosts".

OK now send the fucking links.

It smelled like a cigar......is that a fuckedup fantasy.

 

[HisArpy]

OK now send the fucking links.

Here ya go...

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/36d49c43-7ddb-43e3-bd15-addce040d4ac_1.a5811c7ff2284791c0b7eaa2b49f9dcc.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF

 

[Comshaw]

I was alone when I saw the ghost.

I wasn't alone when the doors opened and the smoke appeared/disappeared on multiple occasions.

Mass hallucination is either a myth or the collective use of mind altering substances.

The "no valid evidence" theory fails to account for bacteria born illness in the pre-modern era.

"No valid evidence" isn't a theory, it's a state of verification. You either have evidence, which makes it fact supporting a theory, or you have no valid evidence for an unsubstantiated theory.

As far as your last statement, of course it did not account for bacterial or viral injections in the pre-moddern era. At the time humans though most of that was either caused by god(s) or some other un-associated reason. It wasn't until science grew to a point where we discovered and understood the microscopic world that we discovered the connection, much like the line of inquiry into hallucinations that may point to the observance of ghosts.

Comshaw

 

[oggbashan]

I have written several ghost stories. My ghosts can appear and apparently become solid for sex, not necessarily at the same time.

Years ago, during a Halloween weekend at a 14th-century youth hostel, I acted as a ghost in the attics. But I'm not sure whether those present were more frightened by me or by the 'genuine' ghosts - there were three sets of them.

1. The early 19th-century headless coachman outside who lost his head to a low lying branch and was crushed under the rear wheels of his coach.

2. The maid whipped to death in the kitchen in the 18th-century.

3. The younger son of a previous owner who was killed in the 17th-century during an irregular duel with a neighbour for seducing the neighbour's wife. The neighbour had to flee to France to avoid prosecution.

All three were usually only sound effects but some people claimed to have seen the coachman's accident. All three incidents actually happened but whether there were ghosts, or just overactive imaginations fuelled by too much local cider?

 

[jomar]

Yeah, I know a guy who has benign visual and auditory hallucinations. Probably more common than you think.

 

[Conager]

No they didn't. They didn't have the tools to see bacteria and viruses, nor were they certain about vectors and transmission, but they were aware of both scientific method, not much different than we have today, the concept of naturally occurring diseases from physical causes and the tramsmissibility thereof.

Their hypothesis may not have always borne out, and their corresponding treatments were not very effective, but there is nothing about "modern" humans more curious or smarter than ancient times. Humans are humans. Every generation thinks of itself as smarter and more evolved than the last generation and evolution does not work on anything close to a time table like that.

Leaches and bloodletting are not great treatments, (except rarely when they are) but it shows both their awareness of natural causative processes, and their knowledge of blood-borne diseases.

 

[stickygirl]

I've been given the willies a few times after dark, which was disconcerting to say the least

 

[MartinHeidegger]

Yeah, I know a guy who has benign visual and auditory hallucinations. Probably more common than you think.

From what I've read, this is what psychologists are coming to realize. Hallucinations are relatively common, especially among the older population. Many people will, at some point in their life, experience hallucinations. In my case, I once experienced profound visual and tactile hallucinations caused by Ambien. These hallucinations included what appeared to be full figured apparitions.