Feedback exchange?

[DelNovo]

An idea just hit me and I'd like to see how other authors feel about it. How about a feedback exchange? As in, "you read my story, rate it and comment on it, and I will do the same for your story". That would surely raise the comments-to-views ratio for any involved story.

I suppose that'd work only when the categories are appealing to both authors, and maybe adjustments would have to be made for story length (as in, if my story is 12 pages and yours average 4, I'll read and comment on three of yours for every one of mine that you read).

And I think we also ought to agree that if we read a story in this exchange that turns out not to be our thing, we don't rate it. (Personally I've done that a lot. I get reading a story and if it isn't my thing, I exit out without rating or commenting. It's not fair to those who like that stuff for me to bring it down just because I'm not interested in the type of situations depicted in the story.)

Of course, one potential drawback would be that I imagine authors can be the most critical audience, as we're not just looking to get off on a story. One way to get around this would be to agree to write a comment only, and not to vote on the story, if we'd give it a score below its current average.

What do y'all think about this?

I'll start. I'm willing to read and respond to pretty much anything except the following:

-Anal (I find poo gross. I'd only read an Anal story if poo isn't part of the eroticism.)
-Gay/Lesbian (I have no problem with people being gay; it just isn't my thing and I know pretty much nothing about it.)
-Fetish (again, not my thing)
-BDSM (some people's brains are wired for pain to equal sexual pleasure; mine isn't)
-Non-English (I can read Spanish to an extent but that's it)
-Non-Human (I find very little to enjoy in that category)
-Transgender & Crossdressers (again, no hate, just not my thing)

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think most writers here read and leave commentary using their own criteria and probably won't be too interested in comment/score swapping in this way. It's a little bit, "I'll give you a five if you give me a five."

There's a fairly unpleasant history of "writer's cliques" going back in time, who stacked scores and worse, down-voted stories from "other groups," particularly during contests where there were monied rewards. I arrived on Lit right at the tail end of it, and all I can say, it was poisonous. I for one wouldn't like to see that start up again.

If you want deeper feedback on stories than Comments give you, I'd suggest you start threads in this forum and ask for feedback on specific stories. I reckon you'll get a wider, more varied response. Check out a few of the threads here, to give you an idea of the dynamics.

 

[AlinaX]

I'm willing to read and respond to pretty much anything except the following:

-Anal (I find poo gross. I'd only read an Anal story if poo isn't part of the eroticism.)
-Gay/Lesbian (I have no problem with people being gay; it just isn't my thing and I know pretty much nothing about it.)
-Fetish (again, not my thing)
-BDSM (some people's brains are wired for pain to equal sexual pleasure; mine isn't)
-Non-English (I can read Spanish to an extent but that's it)
-Non-Human (I find very little to enjoy in that category)
-Transgender & Crossdressers (again, no hate, just not my thing)

But, isn't that everything?

 

[DelNovo]

I think most writers here read and leave commentary using their own criteria and probably won't be too interested in comment/score swapping in this way. It's a little bit, "I'll give you a five if you give me a five."

Well, I wouldn't want that. That's why I suggested comments only if the story wouldn't deserve a five.

There's a fairly unpleasant history of "writer's cliques" going back in time, who stacked scores and worse, down-voted stories from "other groups," particularly during contests where there were monied rewards. I arrived on Lit right at the tail end of it, and all I can say, it was poisonous. I for one wouldn't like to see that start up again.

If you want deeper feedback on stories than Comments give you, I'd suggest you start threads in this forum and ask for feedback on specific stories. I reckon you'll get a wider, more varied response. Check out a few of the threads here, to give you an idea of the dynamics.

I've seen the threads asking for feedback on specific stories. I figured that this would be more efficient than every author posting his/her new story and then posting a thread asking for commentary.

But, isn't that everything?

I personally don't think so, but I'd be open to your explanation of why you think it is. I selected a total of 8 categories out of the 32 on the main page.

 

[AlinaX]

I personally don't think so, but I'd be open to your explanation of why you think it is. I selected a total of 8 categories out of the 32 on the main page.

Wait, there are other categories?

But seriously. How can you dismiss Fetish when Fetish can be just about anything? How can you dismiss L, G & T when every other female character is magically bisexual? I've yet to see an Anal that focussed on poo; and reducing BDSM to pain seems to miss the point rather. And what have you got against Non-Human?

Sure, you do you, and all, but there's a lot to be said for a hot girl abducted by cybernetically enhanced alien soldiers who teach her the joys of anal sex while her boyfriend is tied up dressed in her clothes and forced to watch...

 

[DelNovo]

Wait, there are other categories?

But seriously. How can you dismiss Fetish when Fetish can be just about anything? How can you dismiss L, G & T when every other female character is magically bisexual? I've yet to see an Anal that focussed on poo; and reducing BDSM to pain seems to miss the point rather. And what have you got against Non-Human?

Sure, you do you, and all, but there's a lot to be said for a hot girl abducted by cybernetically enhanced alien soldiers who teach her the joys of anal sex while her boyfriend is tied up dressed in her clothes and forced to watch...

I guess Fetish would depend, but for me it's twofold. Firstly, I have no fetishes (unless my lifetime preference for BBWs qualifies), so I'm not sure I'd be the right person to evaluate such stories. Secondly, I learned in an anatomy and physiology class that one reason for fetishes such as a foot fetish has to do with how the brain is wired. (Seriously - nerves for the feet are close to nerves for the genitals and in some cases they overlap to an extent, creating the tendency for foot stimulation to feel sexual in those people.)

I'm not gay, and I don't know enough about lesbians to figure that my evaluation of a lesbian story would be accurate. I feel that I'd "masculinize" it too much and that probably wouldn't do it any justice.

I know that not all Anal stories involve poo (heck, I put an anal scene in a story I wrote and have yet to publish), but I've seen and read anal scenes that do, and it grosses me out.

BDSM - I know it's more than pain, but it also seems to involve demeaning behavior, and that's not my thing. Anything that's not my thing means that I'm a poor choice of evaluator for the story.

Non-human - it's just not my thing.

To ask what I have against any of these categories would be the same as asking what you or anyone else has against any category. Maybe I don't know as much as I should, but my guess for now is that it'd be a rare person who would be turned on by stories in every last one of the 32 categories. It's not what I have against it - it's that I don't get turned on by it, meaning I'm not the right person to evaluate the story. All I could evaluate would be the grammatical structure.

Think about it this way. I love big women and I always have. Many men are turned off by them. So why would a man who finds big women gross have any business evaluating a BBW story? We all have our things and we shouldn't evaluate stories about stuff that either doesn't turn us on or grosses us out.

 

[Ginlover]

DelNovo I'm game but it will be a BDSM story, no pain and you can pick either What is Power Exchange? Or Shifting Dynamics. Do not read the story on my signature as that is more the typical stereotypical BDSM whips and chains story. But either of the others are gentle power or authority exchanges but demonstrate a Dominant and submissive roles. Both are 3 pages about 8000 words. In return I'll read and review a story of yours up to 12,000 words. I'm happy to only comment but feel free to score which ever one of my stories you pick. You'll need to PM me your link to which ever story youd like me to review.
As some background I'm not keen on impossible positions and I loath head hopping in stories bar that I'll give anything a fair go.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Sure, you do you, and all, but there's a lot to be said for a hot girl abducted by cybernetically enhanced alien soldiers who teach her the joys of anal sex while her boyfriend is tied up dressed in her clothes and forced to watch...

Now there's a theme for a new anthology if ever I saw one - Alina's Alien Analists Dress up Davey. I reckon you should drop a line to Laurel, see where it can be fitted in .

 

[AlinaX]

Abducted and Dragged, or: How I got my ass to Mars

 

[lovecraft68]

Its not a bad idea, but..

We all know what they say about good intentions, right?

What happens is you will read someone's story...said story may not be all that good, hell it might suck. You don't want to be mean, but you give a 4 and maybe for feedback some things they could improve, in a friendly supportive way...

Said person then asks you what the fuck do you know about writing? Tells you that no, you suck, and bombs all your stories.

A lot of people are good with some constructive feedback, but for many...the skin is thin and they get nasty quick.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Sure, you do you, and all, but there's a lot to be said for a hot girl abducted by cybernetically enhanced alien soldiers who teach her the joys of anal sex while her boyfriend is tied up dressed in her clothes and forced to watch...

Reads more like one of the SF/F plots I'd write than non-human. Heck, in my "Rembrandt" universe, there are gender-flexible androids, cybernetics-addicted super soldiers (eight feet tall and red-skinned), shapechangers with a love for weird tentacle sex and a species with three genders - male, female, futa. And catgirls. Or -boys.

 

[DelNovo]

Its not a bad idea, but..

We all know what they say about good intentions, right?

What happens is you will read someone's story...said story may not be all that good, hell it might suck. You don't want to be mean, but you give a 4 and maybe for feedback some things they could improve, in a friendly supportive way...

Said person then asks you what the fuck do you know about writing? Tells you that no, you suck, and bombs all your stories.

A lot of people are good with some constructive feedback, but for many...the skin is thin and they get nasty quick.

True, this is one risk thereof. That's why I suggested that no votes be given below a story's average. This would mean that a 4.2 story would only qualify for five-star votes, but I think that it would mitigate the author's nastiness if he/she knew that a critical comment did not result in a vote that lowered the story's score.

 

[LWulf]

There was an artistic website that I belonged to, where I came across a moralistic anomaly. A guy who promised well worded critiques for coin paid. What was shocking to me is that people were actually paying him, and offering anyone else the same if they would give glowing reviews. I see this "set up" in the same light, regardless that it's a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" invite.

I don't promise to give someone a certain star rating before I've read their story. If it's below a 2 star (I didn't like it) then I don't rate it, and I won't give a story a 4 star when I think it only rates a three. I rarely give a story a five star as I like to think that should be something exclusive and not something available from every gumball machine around.

There's nothing wrong with a tit for tat review, but there is nothing new about that. Bringing in the rating system to the discussion with promises of an expected outcome, is all manner of wrong.

After that, I agree with Alina. What it seems like is that you are only interested in reading vanilla plain sex stories. I read and review them all the time, but they aren't what I prefer either.

I don't think I'd have any respect for anybody accepting this offer.

 

[Ginlover]

Constructive review exchanges are popular on other writing sites I've used. Its normally limited to a chapter/ word length. I even been part of review exchanges which require at least 3 or 5 things to be covered. Review chains you review the story above then list yours to be reviewed.
If scores were not used I think its agreat way to develop writing and, to be, honest reading skills.
I've read stories that I wouldn't have read, I've noticed things I like and dislike in someone's writing which helps improve my own writing.
But hey I offered once and haven't had a reply.

 

[8letters]

An idea just hit me and I'd like to see how other authors feel about it. How about a feedback exchange? As in, "you read my story, rate it and comment on it, and I will do the same for your story". That would surely raise the comments-to-views ratio for any involved story.

Personally, I much prefer feedback on a story that it's close to being submitted to a story that's been submitted. I've had some authors do that for me, and I've done that for a few authors. Once it's submitted and I've moved on to another story, getting feedback on it is of limited help.

That being said, there's a lot of time that I've gotten feedback that I've felt wasn't worthwhile. Sometimes, a reviewer doesn't "get" a story. As I write incest stories, I try to get feedback from people who like incest stories. As I read almost always incest stories, I probably wouldn't "get" a non-incest story.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think EB is right. While it's admirable to think about ways to promote more feedback back and forth, this Site isn't set up to encourage feedback systems with lots of terms and conditions and caveats. Right off the bat, the OP identified a sizable number of categories he wouldn't want to exchange feedback about.

As EB suggests, just post something and ask for feedback. OR, establish communication with a few writers you like and actively solicit their feedback. If you're polite they'll probably be flattered and may well respond to you. AwkwardMD, for example, has taken a lot of time to give her own very distinctive feedback on many stories, and authors show their appreciation, so there's a nice exchange of value that keeps it going.

As the Beatles said, the love you take is equal to the love you make. OK, shoot me for quoting that.

 

[DelNovo]

There was an artistic website that I belonged to, where I came across a moralistic anomaly. A guy who promised well worded critiques for coin paid. What was shocking to me is that people were actually paying him, and offering anyone else the same if they would give glowing reviews. I see this "set up" in the same light, regardless that it's a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" invite.

Except that there's no currency of any kind on this site.

I don't promise to give someone a certain star rating before I've read their story.

Neither do I. I'm rather stingy with 5's.

After that, I agree with Alina. What it seems like is that you are only interested in reading vanilla plain sex stories. I read and review them all the time, but they aren't what I prefer either.

So what? Plenty of people like "vanilla" sex, and I did not intend to create within anyone the mistaken notion that I care about what they think of my taste in sex. If I'm a Vanilla guy, give me one good reason why I'm qualified to evaluate Neapolitan Rocky Road Caramel Moose Tracks stories.

I don't think I'd have any respect for anybody accepting this offer.

You do you, bud.

Constructive review exchanges are popular on other writing sites I've used. Its normally limited to a chapter/ word length. I even been part of review exchanges which require at least 3 or 5 things to be covered. Review chains you review the story above then list yours to be reviewed.
If scores were not used I think its agreat way to develop writing and, to be, honest reading skills.
I've read stories that I wouldn't have read, I've noticed things I like and dislike in someone's writing which helps improve my own writing.
But hey I offered once and haven't had a reply.

That's because the shortest of my stories clocks in at 13,663 words - significantly above your stated maximum. And it's the only one that has registered constructive negative feedback (actually, negative feedback of any kind), so I have at least some idea of why it doesn't sit at 5.00. But I'd still have you read it if it met your specifications.

 

[SisterJezabel]

I think too many people are hung up on scores. I've taken to browsing through the New section again. You don't get an indication of the current score and to me this means I go in with an open mind.

You might also be very surprised at some of the quality of writing in areas you currently dismiss. Some of the authors in the gay section in particular use the most wonderful language and as a writer I think that anything that can help increase the quality of my work is worth a read, despite it being about a subject I don't otherwise care about.

 

[Ginlover]

So I guess I'm lucky as I do have a great network of editors.
My most recent story went past a editor who writes kink, then a non kink editor who is great on grammar rules. As the story touched on professional settings after the main edit I took my story to three people who have done semi pro work in 3 different countries. Of course I couldn't meet everyone's expectations but the feedback was the scenario and events shouldn't offend many people. And the shouldn't offend is something I do consider in my writing. I'm never going to make everyone happy but using the right terminology reduces the risk of offence.

Finally the story gets published, rating wise it does okay. But as a writer I still want to improve. A star rating doesn't help, but constructive criticism does. By default my regular volunteer editors are friends and I edit for them too, we work well together but thay are not my target audience.

If I write an erotica story and someone I dont know feedback they want to know what happens to the couple or they want to meet one of the characters then I'm happy. I want to have three dimensional characters who have great sex not just write sex or just write engaging characters.

Why is because as a reader these are the stories I want to read. Ones I can see the characters and feel I know them but also are hot as fuck.

Without reader feedback its damn hard to try and reach that bliss point.

DelNovo send me a link I'll have scan and let you know if I'm happy to read 13-14,000 words. Either way I'll give you feedback on how the first page grabs me as a reader and if it makes me want to carry on reading the detail or skip to the sex part to see how you write that.

 

[DelNovo]

So I guess I'm lucky as I do have a great network of editors.

Perhaps I could use some assistance in that realm. Permit me to regale you with my tale of trying to get editors.

One of my as-yet-unposted stories involves some black characters. I'm white. Though I believe I have a good amount of experience with black people, enough to have a fair idea how to write African American Vernacular English (sometimes called Ebonics), I'm not going to claim that I know it as well as black people do. So I looked up editors on Lit who stated that they can edit Interracial stories. I private messaged a bunch of them - got exactly zero responses. After a couple of weeks of no responses (which, you may be interested to know, has turned into, by now, nine months of no responses), I attempted to post clips of the story in the "How To" category, in hopes that doing so would generate either relevant feedback or offers from readers who knew how I should word the AAVE parts. Didn't happen; it was "sent back".

Onward to my next plan - I posted to a Facebook group where white and black people are supposed to be able to ask each other questions, and got several offers. I sent the clips to all of those people - not one has yet to respond. I sent the clips to a professor with whom I took a creative writing class a couple of years ago (he said he's been trained in AAVE), and in 2 1/2 months since, he has not yet responded. (He's the only one to whom I'll give a pass, up to this point anyway, because the coronavirus thing hit shortly thereafter and upended the way professors teach. Plus I know he has three kids including a toddler, so his time has to have been gobbled up every which way.)

I don't want to post the story and then get raked across the coals in the votes and comments if I erred in my presentation of AAVE, but it seems impossible to find editors.

I've also posted that I'm willing to edit stories but I haven't gotten one single response. Doesn't really bother me because I know there are hundreds of editors on this site, but still it's another cinderblock in the foundation of my failure to understand how the editing process works.

Why is because as a reader these are the stories I want to read. Ones I can see the characters and feel I know them but also are hot as fuck.

That's why my stories tend to be really long - it's all due to character development. I suppose that other authors might split long stories like that into chapters - I'm going to try that with the story I'm working on right now.

DelNovo send me a link I'll have scan and let you know if I'm happy to read 13-14,000 words. Either way I'll give you feedback on how the first page grabs me as a reader and if it makes me want to carry on reading the detail or skip to the sex part to see how you write that.

"Send me a link" - you want me to PM it to you? Is that generally considered easier than if, for instance, I tell you to go to my list of stories and select the one titled "He Tried To Dump Her"?

 

[Ginlover]

There is no link between this site and the stories.
Your name takes me to your discussion profile page not author page. So yes I need a link

I got linked to my editors writing fanfiction. We became friends over liking each others stories and it grew from there. My kink network are rl friends and again people I've met asking questions as I try to develop my understanding.

To get to this point I've written close to 1 million words a 4 book novel series, participated in writers discussions, read blogs. I've been writing only about 2 years, I'm wildly dyslexic so only tried once I was older so didnt care slas much.

My early stuff is total crap but people kindly took the time to review parts. And they told me to read and read more. Read outside my comfort zone, read a horror but look at character development and so on. I've got an editor who will just do an intro or a friend willing to give feedback on just a sentence. But bar my rl friends all I've built up slowly over time by engaging and reviewing.

I'm not sure what you were trying to get checked in your BME story though Google sounds a good bet. Reading thousands of words of a story if you just want a dialogue phrase checked might put some off.

St. Andrew's Cross. I wanted to know the acceptable way to write that. I asked on here and fetlife and had lots of replies, non needed to read my story to offer their view. Hardly any commitment from them but massive of help to me.

 

[yukonnights]

There is no link between this site and the stories.
Your name takes me to your discussion profile page not author page. So yes I need a link

Link To DelNovo's stories >https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=5113678&page=submissions

I have to say, this sounds like a terrible ordeal trying to find someone to read over your work. Just to let folks know; DelNovo has 4 published works, all are are rated over 4, and three are well over 4.50.

My only relevant suggestion would be to try and develop an online Literotica writer friend or two. Send them a Private Message and say hi. The best would be folks who you like to read and who write some of the same things you write. Personally I would have my doubts about any so called volunteer editor who has no published works here.

PS: You can put a link to your story list in your signature line so folks can easily jump over to your catalogue of stories. (open the User CP option at the top of this page and you'll see it.)

 

[lovecraft68]

I would firmly place this in the category of "things white people just shouldn't do" and have your characters speak in relatively "standard" English. I'm not saying white people shouldn't write black characters, but there is a long and fraught history of white authors writing black vernacular to shame and ridicule it. It's up there with blackface and minstrel shows for me, and I have a feeling you might not have gotten any responses because it made people hella uncomfortable.

There is no way to do this without coming across as embracing stereotypes. It sounds like your heart is in the right place but, yeah, that's my (unasked for) two cents.

"Things white people shouldn't do" is in itself a racist statement
Your opinions and politics are yours and you have full right to them, but they don't give you the right to tell people what they can and can't write.

Its like blackface...please

 

[DelNovo]

I would firmly place this in the category of "things white people just shouldn't do" and have your characters speak in relatively "standard" English. I'm not saying white people shouldn't write black characters, but there is a long and fraught history of white authors writing black vernacular to shame and ridicule it. It's up there with blackface and minstrel shows for me, and I have a feeling you might not have gotten any responses because it made people hella uncomfortable.

There is no way to do this without coming across as embracing stereotypes. It sounds like your heart is in the right place but, yeah, that's my (unasked for) two cents.

I think that, if I could honestly put in the introduction that the AAVE parts were edited and "passed" by a black person, it'd be legit for everyone reading. That's why I haven't posted the story yet - I want to check that box. The main black character does not speak AAVE. I didn't use it to shame it or ridicule it; it's about accuracy. I've lived all over the country and it seems like a lot of black people talk that way no matter where they live. I see this as no different from how, in one of the stories I posted, I had the main character speak in a Southern accent because he was from Texas. If I make a black character speak like a white person, I'm sure many black people would find that offensive, or at least laughable.

I did get a bunch of responses from black people who said they'd be willing to read and make suggestions if need be (and the clips really weren't that long - total of a couple thousand words maybe). Generally they've seemed appreciative of how I have aimed to check this work by them rather than going off and posting it as though I believed I knew what I was doing. That's a start, but it hasn't resulted in me getting any feedback on those parts of this story yet.

Link To DelNovo's stories >https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=5113678&page=submissions

I have to say, this sounds like a terrible ordeal trying to find someone to read over your work. Just to let folks know; DelNovo has 4 published works, all are are rated over 4, and three are well over 4.50.

My only relevant suggestion would be to try and develop an online Literotica writer friend or two. Send them a Private Message and say hi. The best would be folks who you like to read and who write some of the same things you write. Personally I would have my doubts about any so called volunteer editor who has no published works here.

PS: You can put a link to your story list in your signature line so folks can easily jump over to your catalogue of stories. (open the User CP option at the top of this page and you'll see it.)

Good suggestions, so they seem. I'd have to find an author who puts out good stuff by him/herself, and is willing. I did recently read some good stories, a couple of which earned 5s from me, but they'd been edited by an army of editors. When a story is essentially a team effort, it makes me think that any one of those people might not be enough individually. Otherwise, why use an army of editors, right?

I do have my wife read my stories before I post them. That's a start anyway. Perhaps I will make contact with some people who are willing to exchange edits or something like that. That could be considered feedback exchange before the fact, which would be just as beneficial for my purposes anyway.

 

[SisterJezabel]

I think that, if I could honestly put in the introduction that the AAVE parts were edited and "passed" by a black person, it'd be legit for everyone reading.

If I saw that at the start of the story I would ignore the story. I think we are talking more about culture rather than language here. It's different adding a Bonjour or Kon'nichiwa in a story, but to me as a non American, AAVE is more cultural than linguistic. But then again, I received an anonymous private message yesterday telling me that I am what is wrong with society as I mentioned gender stereotypes in a story! There may be some like those above who have also warned you, but perhaps a large proportion of Lit readers couldn't care as long as they get their rocks off.