What do you call an aircraft carrier captain concerned for the safety of his crew?

[sygn]

But SpeareChucker!! The military is there for the fun and safety of the kids!!

It's a baby sitting service there so people can get FREE healthcare and education.

You're ex-Army.

Why don't you volunteer to help with light jobs carry mail or supplies during their time of need,
instead of pumping your chest on porn boards "Wahaha those traitors and pussies".

 

[SpeareChucker]

You're ex-Army.

Why don't you volunteer to help with light jobs carry mail or supplies during their time of need,
instead of beating your chest on porn boards "Wahaha those traitors and pussies".

That's being in a dark place...

 

[sygn]

That's being in a dark place...

his bravado on a porn board is stupid

 

[SpeareChucker]

Getting down into the mud to wrestle a pig
impugns the pig not one wit...



you, on the other hand...
are virtue-signaling a bravado of your own
just by calling the pig out for a wrestling match.

 

[sygn]

So you think Bot acts like a pig?
Good to know

 

[SpeareChucker]

So you think Bot acts like a pig?
Good to know

Methinks the stuck pig doth squeal the loudest...

 

[sygn]

You only told me off because those are your views too, just like with the coronavirus.

 

[SpeareChucker]

You only told me off because those are your views too, just like the coronavirus.

I didn't tell you off.

If I were going to do so, I might point out how
you've begun to act just like the posters that
torment and troll you over nothing.

You are allowing some sort of personal issue
drag you away form the issue of the topic.
Don't you pride yourself on being a bit
better than the wallowing pigs?

 

[sygn]

I didn't tell you off.

If I were going to do so, I might point out how
you've begun to act just like the posters that
torment and troll you over nothing.

You are allowing some sort of personal issue
drag you away form the issue of the topic.
Don't you pride yourself on being a bit
better than the wallowing pigs?

Yes, I did that.

But as far as this interaction was concerned,

Botany started mocking my comment, implying that I and others who agree with the Captain are retard, and then you two continued on the same tone.

After I reacted to Bot, somehow you managed to turn it onto it's head and lecture me on manners.

 

[SpeareChucker]

I redressed you not;
your indictment is not valid.
Don't let your pissiness cloud your objectivity...

 

[Botanical11B]

You're ex-Army.

Why don't you volunteer to help with light jobs carry mail or supplies during their time of need,

Because

1) they already have people for that.

2) I already volunteered and did my part.

3) I'm retired. time to let the youngsters destroy their knees, hips and back for the cause.

instead of pumping your chest on porn boards "Wahaha those traitors and pussies".

I never called the Navy traitors and pussies......just the champaign socialist that inhabit the GB.

BIG difference.

his bravado on a porn board is stupid

Bravado?? LOL

 

[sygn]

No, I just objected to your juvenile games - misrepresenting our ideas then mocking us.

Jesus Christ..... sygn and a shockingly large number of other lefties seem to think the US military is a summer camp for bubble kids run by snowplow soccer mommies there to provide the kiddies with a college eduction and healthcare in the safest environment and conditions the US taxpayers dollar can afford.

But SpeareChucker!! The military is there for the fun and safety of the kids!!
It's a baby sitting service there so people can get FREE healthcare and education.

Just like when you call people who disagree with your views, "socialists who hate America".

 

[sygn]

I never called the Navy traitors and pussies......just the champaign socialist that inhabit the GB.

BIG difference.

Oh, here we go.
I missed it.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Now it's us and not just you?

Wow!



I think you need to stop personalizing everything
and speaking for others. Serious.

 

[sygn]

Now it's us and not just you?

Wow!

I think you need to stop personalizing everything
and speaking for others. Serious.

you can't stay away, can you?
Bot was mocking all of "us" from this thread, who were arguing for Crozier.
It's not personal, it's about deflecting from things he doesn't want to address in a debate.

 

[icanhelp1]

"Modly said that the navy had already begun mobilizing resources to help the crew in response to Crozier’s earlier requests for assistance.
“He was fully aware of the navy’s response, only asking that he wished the crew could be evacuated faster,” the acting secretary said.

He pointed out that so far, none of the infected crew was so ill to need hospitalization, and contrasted that with Crozier’s warning that sailors could die.“No one knows that to be true. It does not comport with the data we have right now on the ship,” Modly said."

lol. Everybody else, even cleaners are now experts in the virus,
but Modly has no f...g clue.

You're missing the point. There was a flag office on board who was probably the task force commander. A captain of a ship in a task force is subordinate to the flag officer. To jump the chain of command and violate *comsec* jeopardizes the security of the whole force.

No doubt a crisis was developing on board but the number 1 mission of any officer in command is the mission while provide a status report and recommendations to higher headquarters while awaiting further orders. Providing a readiness report or a sitrep is highly classified info and doesn't belong in local newspapers for obvious reasons.

The captain, having concerns for his crew is a good thing, but still has to fight his crew and commit his assets as best he can even as casualties mount. He's wasn't relieved of duty for pleading his case he was relieved for taking his eye off the ball, shifting his priority from his present mission and providing leadership to his crew in a critical situation {to that of shifting mission priority without orders}.

People need to understand that he was part of a massive combat force where it takes a little time for the department of the navy to evaluate it's global situation while providing the force options and keeping the force secure. The command chain should never be broken, that's why officers confide in each other and provide info to enlisted on a need to know basis. The fact that sailors were aware of the captains shift in priority can change how soldiers respond to their individual responsibilities. The communications between local and higher commands is top secret.

Officers command! They lead when times are tough. A commander should always be mission first and use his assets in a way that accomplishes the mission. A carrier isn't a cruise ship and everyone on board took an oath to defend and project strength. To usurp higher command and operate outside *comsec* regulations put the force in jeopardy, a massive dereliction of duty. He basically slapped higher command as being inadequate to respond to his crisis, I'm sure he pissed off a few 4 stars on top of the SEC of the Navy. Using the press as a shield won't protect him from a possible courts martial and politics needs to keep their nose out of it and let the navy decide based on the merits of the case.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Well said.

You did help.

 

[RobDownSouth]

https://i.imgur.com/qXn4BxM.jpg

 

[Botanical11B]

No, I just objected to your juvenile games - misrepresenting our ideas then mocking us.

How have I misrepresented your ideas?

You think it's a commanders job to ensure the comfort and safety of his soldiers/sailors do you not?

You seem to think safety is the primary objective/concern/mission of the military do you not??

If not then explain this shock and disgust that he would get fired for breaking ranks and protocol to "do what's right" for his sailors??

Just like when you call people who disagree with your views, "socialists who hate America".

I don't call people who disagree with my views socialist who hate America.

Just the ones who advocate state ownership, control and or administration of the means of production, specifically via authoritarian means.

There are other types of authoritarian douche bags that also hate America,

Theocratic whack jobs for example...also hate America.

Oh, here we go.
I missed it.

Would you prefer Neo-Maoist??

Bot was mocking all of "us" from this thread, who were arguing for Crozier.

Yes, because you clearly don't understand what the military is, it's purpose for existing or how it functions.

If you did you'd understand why Crozier got fired.

 

[Botanical11B]

You're missing the point. There was a flag office on board who was probably the task force commander. A captain of a ship in a task force is subordinate to the flag officer. To jump the chain of command and violate *comsec* jeopardizes the security of the whole force.

People need to understand that he was part of a massive combat force

I don't think many folks understand what the military is or how it operates.

Either that or they've just never thought about it.

And so they can't understand why the Sir got fired.

 

[sygn]

You're missing the point. There was a flag office on board who was probably the task force commander. A captain of a ship in a task force is subordinate to the flag officer. To jump the chain of command and violate *comsec* jeopardizes the security of the whole force.

No doubt a crisis was developing on board but the number 1 mission of any officer in command is the mission while provide a status report and recommendations to higher headquarters while awaiting further orders. Providing a readiness report or a sitrep is highly classified info and doesn't belong in local newspapers for obvious reasons.

The captain, having concerns for his crew is a good thing, but still has to fight his crew and commit his assets as best he can even as casualties mount. He's wasn't relieved of duty for pleading his case he was relieved for taking his eye off the ball, shifting his priority from his present mission and providing leadership to his crew in a critical situation {to that of shifting mission priority without orders}.

People need to understand that he was part of a massive combat force where it takes a little time for the department of the navy to evaluate it's global situation while providing the force options and keeping the force secure.

The command chain should never be broken, that's why officers confide in each other and provide info to enlisted on a need to know basis. The fact that sailors were aware of the captains shift in priority can change how soldiers respond to their individual responsibilities. The communications between local and higher commands is top secret.

Officers command! They lead when times are tough. A commander should always be mission first and use his assets in a way that accomplishes the mission. A carrier isn't a cruise ship and everyone on board took an oath to defend and project strength. To usurp higher command and operate outside *comsec* regulations put the force in jeopardy, a massive dereliction of duty. He basically slapped higher command as being inadequate to respond to his crisis, I'm sure he pissed off a few 4 stars on top of the SEC of the Navy. Using the press as a shield won't protect him from a possible courts martial and politics needs to keep their nose out of it and let the navy decide based on the merits of the case.

Me not knowing about the Army, I'm starting to gradually grasp your guys' point.

In theory what he did was A HUGE BREACH.
What you said, and this was a strategic warship with nukes on board in unfriendly waters.
And indeed, these arrangements take time you can't do them overnight in a new country.

But my take on Crozier was that he was an experienced competent officer, he Knew all these things, and he resorted to them out of desperation. There must have been more to the story.
I highly suspect that
a)he felt there was an unnecessary, resolvable delay that was putting his crew's lives in high danger.
b) And, most of all, that all the cc's were his last resort: he had encountered a brick wall on his 1:1 interactions with upper management.
c) etc.

Yes, he probably should have been demotedcfrom that post, you made a compelling case for that.
But don't those higher up need to be investigated too? Whether they performed their duty competently.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Cap'n Queeg was an experienced office too...
Didn't mean that the pressure of command didn't get to him.

As a leader, in this case a lesser leader,
which is the same case for, say, a platoon sgt.,
in order to have those below you follow your orders
you must set the example. By his example, he proved
that he was at best myopic, and at worst mutinous.
There is no way that he could have been left in command.
If that were to stand as example, then military discipline would
quickly break down on his ship, in the very least, but even perhaps
in the aggregate as it did in the Vietnamese conflict. Their the confidence
in leadership went all the way up the mast to the civilian political leadership...

 

[SpeareChucker]

His higher-ups acted appropriately by following their orders.
Their higher-ups are held accountable by the ballot
and investigations of the press and in the case
of this administration, a hostile press which
explains why they are advocating the
case for the "courageous" Captain.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Ready for some military comic relief?



https://pjmedia.com/trending/venezu...-german-cruise-ship-rams-it-and-sinks-itself/

 

[sygn]

His higher-ups acted appropriately by following their orders.
Their higher-ups are held accountable by the ballot
and investigations of the press and in the case
of this administration, a hostile press which
explains why they are advocating the
case for the "courageous" Captain.

Oh, from what I read, much of the Dem. press Are partisan and are using this event as a means to win elections.

But I alsoso read Crozier's letter and if what he said is true,
the manner in which those higher up were trying to contain the outbreak WAS incompetent.

Yes, Crozier breached Army rules and he needed to suffer consequences,
BUT he brought up some worrisome issues about his superiors, who need to be investigated too.

I disagree with either stance (assuming without question that his superiors did the right thing, or that this is the Army, they're higher up, so they shouldn't be challenged).