OK, so... ready for a downer?

EllieTalbot

Fear the Spoon
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Posts
3,921
It's time to advise Ellie, but you can't do it until she tells you all about her little problem. Oh, you lucky, lucky souls.

My apologies.

For over twenty years I've been good friends with a woman I'll call Christine. And about five years ago, when she and my younger brother, Chris, got married, I was lucky enough to be entitled to start calling her my sister, too. BTW, while Chris and Christine are just aliases I've given them here, their real names are just as close to each other.

On Thanksgiving, she, my brother and their toddler daughter were getting ready to go to her parents' house for the big dinner, as they have every year for a while now. About an hour before they were to leave, police showed up on their porch to inform them that they were investigating at incident at her parents' home. Apparently, her father had shot her mother, called 911, and then shot himself.

No one saw this coming at all. Her parents were in their 80's, comfortably retired, no history of domestic violence, substance abuse, etc. Her mother was cheerful, active in church and community events. Her father had always kept mostly to himself, but not to an odd extreme. There was no note, no statement about why he did it when he called 911, no nothing. Just out of nowhere.

About the only silver lining I can find is that, whatever had gotten into him, he didn't wait until Chris and his family arrived for the holiday feast and take them out, too.

Everybody's just in immense shock, and poor Christine...

She was their only child, so she lost her entire family that day, and is left with only a few distant relations who are essentially strangers. We, her in-laws, are what she's got when it comes to family.

Chris says she's a wreck, of course. She hasn't talked to anyone but him and the authorities involved, won't see anyone, etc. I want so badly to help her, but don't even know where to begin. Other than making sure she knows I'm here anytime, I've just given her space, and told Chris they're invited to spend Christmas here if they want. I thought they might want to get away from everything for a few days and be relieved of the pressure of decorating, cooking, and generally having to fake holiday enthusiasm for their daughter, but they're going to stay home by themselves.

What can I do that might actually be helpful? Perhaps more importantly, what should I avoid doing?

Ugh. I don't really expect anyone here to have any magic answers, but maybe a few of you have been through something similar and have a little wisdom to offer, or even just something I haven't thought of...

It's worth a try.

(See?! I almost wrote "It's worth a shot" before realizing how awful that phrase is, given the context. And if this had been a spoken conversation, I may not have caught it before it was uttered. Imagining what it could do if I had one little unconscious slip-up like that around her. JFC.)

Hailing Mary in Haley,
Ellie
 
Wow! I think aside from telling her you are there for her, there's not much you can do.

When I was in high school, I had a friend with a younger and older sister. In her case I think something was hinky because I was never allowed to go into her house. Just sad her dad wouldn't like it.

Dad wound up shooting his wife (the girl's mother), the dog, then himself.

My friend just totally shut down. Never came back to school. Just sort of disappeared. Very sad.
 
As much as it may pain you I think your instincts on this are spot on. She's got to come to you. Fortunately you have a pipeline via your brother. She's hurt, confused, and probably angry as well and if she isn't now, she will be sooner or later.

Thanksgiving????? I'm angry at her father now. Way to ruin that holiday for her, forever.
 
It's not uncommon for the elderly to choose their own escape from Hell.
 
By the way, this case in not hard to find in the news.
 
Age related cognitive decline maybe...

Just buy a kitten.
 
Wow! I think aside from telling her you are there for her, there's not much you can do.

When I was in high school, I had a friend with a younger and older sister. In her case I think something was hinky because I was never allowed to go into her house. Just sad her dad wouldn't like it.

Dad wound up shooting his wife (the girl's mother), the dog, then himself.

My friend just totally shut down. Never came back to school. Just sort of disappeared. Very sad.

*nodnod* Very.

I can't even imagine what it would be like.

As much as it may pain you I think your instincts on this are spot on. She's got to come to you. Fortunately you have a pipeline via your brother. She's hurt, confused, and probably angry as well and if she isn't now, she will be sooner or later.
.


*sigh* You're probably right. I just feel so useless, sitting here hundreds of miles away hoping the next call I get will be from her.

Thanksgiving????? I'm angry at her father now. Way to ruin that holiday for her, forever

And Mothers' Day. And Fathers' Day. Yeah, my brother says she's pretty much resigned to hating her father for the rest of her life. It's the never-to-be-answered "why" that's the real torture, though.

It's not uncommon for the elderly to choose their own escape from Hell.

They don't get to take someone else with them.

By the way, this case in not hard to find in the news.

Eh, yes it is. It hasn't really been in the news. And, unfortunately, this wasn't the only Thanksgiving murder-suicide. It's one of those sad things you learn when you find yourself with reason to look such things up. There were several that day, and, stunningly enough, there were three more of them that were couples in their 80's.

The only thing that's made it into what might be called "news" about Christine's parents is a brief obituary for her mother that doesn't mention the cause of death, and a prayer post from her mother's church group.

Thanks for the heads-up anyway, though.
 
The "Why?" is the part that will drive her, and anyone else that wants to dwell on it, crazy if she (they) lets it. That's a dark, dark, place to go.
 
Elderly couples often consider themselves to be one and go together by agreement.

If you're trying to be comforting, it's not working.

She was happily cooking Thanksgiving dinner in anticipation of the arrival of her daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter, and was murdered.

I appreciate that you're trying to offer a little wisdom about the dynamic between old couples who just don't care to face life without each other after decades together, but it's not appropriate here.
 
Meals. Be present. Say you’re sorry...don’t elaborate or speculate.

ETA: Ah, didn’t get you were so far away...so, be available. Your brother can handle the meals.
 
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She was happily cooking Thanksgiving dinner in anticipation of the arrival of her daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter, and was murdered.

If no one else was there, no one else knows for sure.

I'll maintain my position until and unless someone can prove she was unwilling, which is of course impossible. I've known people who were extremely distraught at the burden of 'holidays' privately, but put on a happy face when others arrived.
 
If no one else was there, no one else knows for sure.

I'll maintain my position until and unless someone can prove she was unwilling, which is of course impossible...

Right, because you know these people, I'm sure. You saw the crime scene and consulted the medical examiner. Because you heard the 911 call. Oh, wait...


Are you always this grotesque?
 
Years ago he turns out the lights, climbs in bed next to her, and shoots himself in the head. Lives shattered. The last word.

I vote dolf. Get her a kitten.
 
Age related cognitive decline maybe...

Just buy a kitten.

I've been morbidly hoping for that. Then there would be at least some sense to it. But I don't believe the ME found anything pointing that direction.

A kitten is a really good idea. She would love that. But they already have four cats (and a dog). Introducing a new animal might end up creating more discord than harmony. But I'll keep it in mind and ask Chris if he thinks the other animals would be chill.

I did find a beautiful rose hybrid that bears her mother's name. It happens to be hardy in their zone, so I'm ordering a few to give her this spring.

The "Why?" is the part that will drive her, and anyone else that wants to dwell on it, crazy if she (they) lets it. That's a dark, dark, place to go.

*nod*

Meals. Be present. Say you’re sorry...don’t elaborate or speculate.

ETA: Ah, didn’t get you were so far away...so, be available. Your brother can handle the meals.

I never thought it would happen, but since becoming a father, my brother has become a decent cook.

Years ago he turns out the lights, climbs in bed next to her, and shoots himself in the head. Lives shattered. The last word.

I vote dolf. Get her a kitten.

Thank you, Pete.
 
I've been morbidly hoping for that. Then there would be at least some sense to it. But I don't believe the ME found anything pointing that direction.

A kitten is a really good idea. She would love that. But they already have four cats (and a dog). Introducing a new animal might end up creating more discord than harmony. But I'll keep it in mind and ask Chris if he thinks the other animals would be chill.

I did find a beautiful rose hybrid that bears her mother's name. It happens to be hardy in their zone, so I'm ordering a few to give her this spring.



*nod*



I never thought it would happen, but since becoming a father, my brother has become a decent cook.



Thank you, Pete.

You'll probably never understand what drove this man to take the life of his wife and then surrender his own. That well is both deep and dark, we glance down over the rim fearful of the reflections we might see. If you are close to her offer your condolences and support. I don't know her mental state but somebody may have to step in and help her manage any duties she might have to perform as a result of this tragedy. Sorry you had to experience something like this in your life.
 
You'll probably never understand what drove this man to take the life of his wife and then surrender his own. That well is both deep and dark, we glance down over the rim fearful of the reflections we might see. If you are close to her offer your condolences and support. I don't know her mental state but somebody may have to step in and help her manage any duties she might have to perform as a result of this tragedy. Sorry you had to experience something like this in your life.

OMG, you didnt blame democrats! :eek:
 
I had exactly the same thought and then realized the distance.


Meals. Be present. Say you’re sorry...don’t elaborate or speculate.

ETA: Ah, didn’t get you were so far away...so, be available. Your brother can handle the meals.

I've always thought that letting someone know you're there for them and they can call you any time ends up being sort of empty despite it being warmly offered because in most cases people won't reach out. It'd be awkward as hell, but I think you have to pester a bit. Some sort of pretext to call more often than you would?

Making the trip out there seems like it would be an imposition. So I'm kind of out of ideas.

The rose idea I think is a very good one.

Are there service, civic or church groups in that area that you or your husband are in any way affiliated with?

Tough one. Truly awful.
 
By the way, this case in not hard to find in the news.

You might be surprised to know that news gathering practices vary from community to community. While I have never worked at a town where a newspaper would not give at least three paragraphs to such a story, it would not be uncommon for a wire service to ignore the story.
And if the wire service doesn't pick it up, the particular story you are looking for would be very hard to find.
 
Right, because you know these people, I'm sure. You saw the crime scene and consulted the medical examiner. Because you heard the 911 call. Oh, wait...


Are you always this grotesque?

Unhappy is the word. Progressives are always unhappy and they tend to try to spread the unhappiness.
 
Don't talk, don't say do this or that. Do stuff if she asks, or the opportunity arises. She may not ask but don't push her. And hugs say a lot more than words. :)
 
It doesn't matter how or why it happened. The big thing now for her and your brother is support of family. As hard as it is going to be on her, it will be almost as hard for your brother. He is going to be her leaning post, shelter and her confidant while she morns and heals. Most of her pain and loss will be spilled on him and he will feel it almost as much as she does.

You may have the -in law tag on family, but if you feel you are, you are. She needs to know that. Offer to be there for her, but not just once. When something like this happens the initial shock can numb a person and only after a time will the pain hit. When it does she and your brother will need support. Offering once to be there, to want to help can get lost easily in the chaos of the event. Keep reminding her that you can and will help, check in with her on a regular basis, not so many times she feels smothered, but enough she knows she can reach out when she needs to. Do the little things and those things you can second hand through your brother. Be observant to those times that she may want to, but either doesn't know how or hurts to much to reach out.

It's going to be a long rough road before she can get through most of the pain. All you can do is be observant and try to help where you can. I truly hope you can.


Comshaw
 
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