The Reality of Socialized Medicine

[YDB95]

Look, I'm sorry, but both parties have been about equally irresponsible with our money.

If you go back to 1901, you mean. That's literally two lifetimes ago. And neither major party had much of anything in common then with its current counterpart beyond the name.

You're opining that the Republicans are keeping use from achieving a balanced budget but the only Dem president ever with a stellar track record on deficit (also the only president in my lifetime to be impeached) doesn't make up for the miserable track record of all the rest (especially Obama, who skyrocketed our debt).

Obama had the worst financial conditions since the 1930s to grapple with. That is a perfect example of why the deficit isn't always the most important thing anyway. But even if I agreed with all you're saying here (and I do agree with some of it), that still doesn't change the fact that it's only the Republicans who position themselves as "deficit hawks" while simultaneously supporting policies that always worsen the deficit.

 

[magicalmoments]

#203 above.
And yet millions of people in dozens of countries live with socialised medicine and have done for a generation without nightmares.
You and your ilk really are are the political equivalent to the flat earthers.
It reminds me of when Galileo published his astronomical observations that the sun was the centre of the solar system and that earth revolved around it and not vice versa. The Roman Catholic Church had a fit. To them it was a nightmare scenario. They'd have to admit they were wrong, that the holy gospel was wrong. It was not something they could live with. They banned the books, the forced Galileo to retract. And yet the world kept on revolving around the sun, and still is.

 

[gunthernehmen]

If you go back to 1901, you mean. That's literally two lifetimes ago. And neither major party had much of anything in common then with its current counterpart beyond the name.



Obama had the worst financial conditions since the 1930s to grapple with. That is a perfect example of why the deficit isn't always the most important thing anyway. But even if I agreed with all you're saying here (and I do agree with some of it), that still doesn't change the fact that it's only the Republicans who position themselves as "deficit hawks" while simultaneously supporting policies that always worsen the deficit.

So you can go back two lifetimes but I can't? LOL

The data is out there and easy to crunch. Stop taking it for granted that your party is good and light and the other one is the evil empire. Look for yourself.

 

[gunthernehmen]

#203 above.
And yet millions of people in dozens of countries live with socialised medicine and have done for a generation without nightmares.
You and your ilk really are are the political equivalent to the flat earthers.
It reminds me of when Galileo published his astronomical observations that the sun was the centre of the solar system and that earth revolved around it and not vice versa. The Roman Catholic Church had a fit. To them it was a nightmare scenario. They'd have to admit they were wrong, that the holy gospel was wrong. It was not something they could live with. They banned the books, the forced Galileo to retract. And yet the world kept on revolving around the sun, and still is.

You do realize some states here have in effect socialized healthcare?

We aren't guessing when we say it will end badly.

 

[JackLuis]

You do realize some states here have in effect socialized healthcare?

We aren't guessing when we say it will end badly.

No you aren't guessing, but you don't offer any FACTS to support your conclusion. Like a common Gohmert!

Healthcare is not an intractable puzzle, it can be done, and improved by reducing the levels of paperwork required. However to make this effective, sharp economics are necessary. So let the government negotiate drug prices. Put the expertise we have to buy anyway, to work and knock down the vast markups and regulate the drug industries. The VA has been dealing with this for years and I can tell you that their drugs are, cheap and they ain't killed me yet!

 

[YDB95]

So you can go back two lifetimes but I can't? LOL

You are the only one who looked back to 1901. I was focused on since 1980, which is when the current trend towards cutting taxes for the rich and waiting for the effects to trickle down took effect (or really 1981, I suppose).

 

[gunthernehmen]

No you aren't guessing, but you don't offer any FACTS to support your conclusion. Like a common Gohmert!

Healthcare is not an intractable puzzle, it can be done, and improved by reducing the levels of paperwork required. However to make this effective, sharp economics are necessary. So let the government negotiate drug prices. Put the expertise we have to buy anyway, to work and knock down the vast markups and regulate the drug industries. The VA has been dealing with this for years and I can tell you that their drugs are, cheap and they ain't killed me yet!

Is the Canadian guy still here?

You have roads up there, right? Paved ones I mean. Seasonal changes, frost heaves cause potholes. Potholes in my area get pretty bad and repairing them is an annual struggle.

Only thing is they don't fix them right. They don't debride the wound, dig down to where the subsurface is strong. Just put a little asphalt into the hole, tamp it down and on to the next. This results in a bigger pothole forming in a couple months. The next state north does it right and the road might get a little tougher but it's safe to drive on. I haven't been to Canada, eh, but I have the perception (based on that next state north doing it right) that you don't screw around with potholes but fix them heard, fast and well. I could be wrong I guess.

There is no mystery to fixing a pothole. It's really not hard, just takes some modest prep and good materials. So why do our potholes come back almost immediately?

Same reason our local version of nhs failed. Corruption. Greed. Laziness.

Put something in (our) government hands and they will fuck it up as sure as taxes.

 

[ASolidMan50]

I’m Canadian, we are almost as screwed up.

The problem with facts is they don’t matter.

 

[JackLuis]

Is the Canadian guy still here?

You have roads up there, right? Paved ones I mean. Seasonal changes, frost heaves cause potholes. Potholes in my area get pretty bad and repairing them is an annual struggle.

Only thing is they don't fix them right. They don't debride the wound, dig down to where the subsurface is strong. Just put a little asphalt into the hole, tamp it down and on to the next. This results in a bigger pothole forming in a couple months. The next state north does it right and the road might get a little tougher but it's safe to drive on. I haven't been to Canada, eh, but I have the perception (based on that next state north doing it right) that you don't screw around with potholes but fix them heard, fast and well. I could be wrong I guess.

There is no mystery to fixing a pothole. It's really not hard, just takes some modest prep and good materials. So why do our potholes come back almost immediately?

Same reason our local version of nhs failed. Corruption. Greed. Laziness.

Put something in (our) government hands and they will fuck it up as sure as taxes.

Ain't life a bitch! Deflection instead of addressing the issue, pothole are not pustules. The subject is medicine.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Ain't life a bitch! Deflection instead of addressing the issue, pothole are not pustules. The subject is medicine.

The observant reader will have noticed that I said several states have tried and failed nhs programs. And then tried to explain part of why they failed using an example.

Don't you have a weekly thread to start?

 

[DawnONight]

The observant reader will have noticed that I said several states have tried and failed nhs programs. And then tried to explain part of why they failed using an example.

Don't you have a weekly thread to start?

Observant readers will notice that the conservative contributors to these threads are the ones who generally argue from logic and cited pertinent facts, while the leftist contributors consistently argue from emotion, opinion, and out-of-date or irrelevant citations.

 

[oggbashan]

Observant readers will notice that the conservative contributors to these threads are the ones who generally argue from logic and cited pertinent facts, while the leftist contributors consistently argue from emotion, opinion, and out-of-date or irrelevant citations.

There are some facts in this thread but also some lies and opinions based on political viewpoints.

Other countries can provide universal healthcare, perhaps with flaws, but without bankrupting the nation or individuals.

The US political system doesn't seem able to reach a sensible version yet other countries can.

 

[DawnONight]

There are some facts in this thread but also some lies and opinions based on political viewpoints.

Other countries can provide universal healthcare, perhaps with flaws, but without bankrupting the nation or individuals.

The US political system doesn't seem able to reach a sensible version yet other countries can.

Name one.

 

[gunthernehmen]

There are some facts in this thread but also some lies and opinions based on political viewpoints.

Don't be too hard on YBD9. I think he's new at this. He'll earn.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Name one.

Austria, Australia Belarus, Canada Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom New Zealand . Off the top of my head, few more than one, and most of which are not bankrupt ( Russia maybe, but who would know??).

More reading for you, though I doubt you will read it:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...most-well-developed-public-health-care-system

Since you won't read, the US health care system ranks 19th!! Below all other G7 countries btw.

I could throw out more links and more studies, but why bother. The US mortality rate of youth is increasing, your average lifespan age is decreasing, the way it is going, in a few more generations, it will be a non starter...

 

[BotanyBoy]

Austria, Australia Belarus, Canada Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom New Zealand . Off the top of my head, few more than one, and most of which are not bankrupt ( Russia maybe, but who would know??).

Since you won't read, the US health care system ranks 19th!! Below all other G7 countries btw.

That must be why all the rich people from those G7 countries and the ones you listed come here to get their HC

The qualifier was without bankrupting the state, Greece and Moldova I believe are disqualified with several others teetering on the edge.

 

[oggbashan]

That must be why all the rich people from those G7 countries and the ones you listed come here to get their HC

The qualifier was without bankrupting the state, Greece and Moldova I believe are disqualified with several others teetering on the edge.

Only some rich people. The best US health care is the best in the world but if you can't afford it? You're far more likely to get health care in the countries listed.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

That must be why all the rich people from those G7 countries and the ones you listed come here to get their HC

US HC ranks 19th, I didn't make up the number, or generate the ranking criteria.

With the chronic drug overdoes issue's, your overall percentage of youth death rate is rising, and your average lifespan age is shrinking.

I do not profess to have an answer to those problems, but saying everything is great doesn't seem to be the best answer.

Just saying is all...

 

[icanhelp1]

Don't be too hard on YBD9. I think he's new at this. He'll earn.

What people don't realize is how big our bloated bureaucracy really is. We have politicians who are more concerned about their fucking political careers than they are for governing their constituents. There is plenty of revenue out there but with this " you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" mentality we can't manage the revenues we have. Politicians sit in their ivory tower thinking our money is theirs to take. They can never take redundant programs and combine them using their synergies for a more effective and efficient program, they choke when you mention cost cutting. To delete an obsolete program Is against the very fabric of what they've become. Their quick to regulate with the intention of getting more revenue but never close a program.

The democratic platform now is:

1. Free college education
2. Free healthcare for illegals
3. Forgive college debt
4. Free healthcare for all
5. Reparations
6. Raise taxes on the rich
7. Green new deal, eliminate fossil fuels
8. WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION!!
9. Pay a universal basic income
10. Raise minimum wages
11. Eliminate electoral college
12. Eliminate ICE
12. Open borders
13. Closing down nuclear power plants
14. free meals in schools
15. Subsidize farmers to grow climate friendly crops
16. Repeal illegal entry statute
17. No wall funding
18. Slash defense spending/ the one responsibility the government is constitutionally responsible for ( protection of it's citizens )
19. Wealth tax

If this isn't socialism and expanded government intrusion, well, you're blind. This isn't the America I want. Other countries have this and if their people are fine with it so am I. We have a 22 trillion dollar debt and a trillion dollar deficit along with a 400 billion dollar interest payment which goes up every year.

Sooner or later our country's interest payment is going to be larger that our discretionary spending allowance.

The federal debt is on tract to rise to 92% of GDP in 2019. It won't be long before we as a nation are insolvent. If inflation rises and interest rates increase so doesn't the interest rate on the interest rate increase. The interest rate on the debt are programs that could be funded.

 

[icanhelp1]

US HC ranks 19th, I didn't make up the number, or generate the ranking criteria.

With the chronic drug overdoes issue's, your overall percentage of youth death rate is rising, and your average lifespan age is shrinking.

I do not profess to have an answer to those problems, but saying everything is great doesn't seem to be the best answer.

Just saying is all...

We don't say everything is great. We have a demand issue with drugs, no doubt and we also have a political left that refuses to tighten up border security. We live next to some of the most vicious drug cartels in the world and the left wants open borders. Our drug problem is a two edge sword and until we curb demand it's a tough slog.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

We don't say everything is great. We have a demand issue with drugs, no doubt and we also have a political left that refuses to tighten up border security. We live next to some of the most vicious drug cartels in the world and the left wants open borders. Our drug problem is a two edge sword and until we curb demand it's a tough slog.

This is not aimed at you, but a generalized statement: ( note i do appreciate seeing an acknowledgement of there being problems, some here won't even admit to that!!)

I get the impression from my time on the Political discussion board as this:

Everything the Democrats do is wrong/criminal, when voiced by a Republican

Everything the Republican's are doing is wrong/criminal, when voiced by a Democrat.

Same for presidents, etc etc.

Until "you all" down there ( Canada here) realize that A: things change, and B: no one person or party is 100% right or wrong; that nothing of substance will change for the better in the US.

Just one man's opinion....

 

[BotanyBoy]

Only some rich people. The best US health care is the best in the world but if you can't afford it? You're far more likely to get health care in the countries listed.

Yes 100%...there is more equitable HC in all the other developed `1st world nations.

US HC ranks 19th, I didn't make up the number, or generate the ranking criteria.

Ahh yes that arbitrary criteria makes all the difference in the world.

Did you know according to some Venezuela is number 1 in health care?? No shit!!

I'm of the mind that money talks, bullshit walks.....the worlds rich folks come here when they need the good shit and or need it NOW.

I wrote a check and got my moms cancer cured.

My old man wrote a check and got his cancer cured.

No our system is not perfect, but it's far from being as bad as the left LOVES to demonize it as.

With the chronic drug overdoes issue's, your overall percentage of youth death rate is rising, and your average lifespan age is shrinking.

Yea....lots and lots of losers in the late GenX and millennial generation that can't handle reality. That's what happens when you don't pull moms tit out of the kids face until they are a 27 years old.

Then you got the consumption freaks who can't control how much garbage food/drink they take in. That shit is taking out more people than any narcotic or amphetamine crisis ever did.

Booze n' smokes....millions per year.

And don't forget the migrants and fugees that come from 3rd world shit holes all the time, dragging our stats down.

I do not profess to have an answer to those problems, but saying everything is great doesn't seem to be the best answer.

Just saying is all...

Saying everything is horrible and broken because not everyone gets the same doesn't mean there is a problem.

Those of us who have money or moderately decent jobs with decent insurance packages?? Have GREAT healthcare.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Yes 100%...there is more equitable HC in all the other developed `1st world nations.

Did you know according to some Venezuela is number 1 in health care?? No shit!!

Sorry but I call BS on that. Find me one example online...

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Yes 100%...there is more equitable HC in all the other developed `1st world nations.





I wrote a check and got my moms cancer cured.

My old man wrote a check and got his cancer cured.

My father, lived to 93, open heart surgury they did 4 bi-pass's. Intestinal Cancer removed some large intestine, Lung Cancer removed half of his left lung, no check...

Oh and this started when he was 75, so you would be good then too, cause Medicare would cover your costs, so someone else is paying anyhow for you at that age, right?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Saying everything is horrible and broken because not everyone gets the same doesn't mean there is a problem.

Those of us who have money or moderately decent jobs with decent insurance packages?? Have GREAT healthcare.

So you don't think there are problems? Then why the hell are you on the board complaining??? chuckles