How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[xfrodobagginsx]

So how do you explain the fact that the concepts of heaven, hell and a final judgement were not christian ideas at all. They were not a Jewish idea either. The Persians came up with these concepts first. Within 3 days of death, souls were required to cross the Chinvat bridge. Evil doers found the path ever narrower and eventually fell into the abyss; but souls who in life had followed the principles of Humana, Huxta, Huvarshta (Good thoughts, good words, good deeds) found the way wide and welcoming. The Jews first came into contact with these ideas after their exile in Persia after 589 BC. From that source they were copied by the Christians. And it must have been a good idea because the Moslems followed it as well.

Paradise is also a Persian idea - The Hebrews did not even bother to translate it when they wrote Genesis but even copied the Persian word and spelling.

Heaven and Hell are biblical concepts and therefore, they are Christian and Jewish. I will grant you that the OT doesn't speak much on hell though, but the NT does. The Bible predates 589 BC. The Bible began to be written in 1500 BC so...Plus, the Bible wasn't thought of by the Jews or Christians, it was inspired by God Himself. No one predates God. The quran was merely copied from the Bible and then twisted up to the quran. The Bible was written by the eyewitnesses.

 

[phrodeau]

We’ve got three Heavens and two Hells so far, and when Jesus gets back we’ll get a New Jerusalem with a New Heaven, a Bottomless Pit and a Lake of Fire.

How many does that total?

 

[RocketLauncher]

Catholicism, good or evil?

https://www.***********/list/most-unforgivable-things-the-catholic-church-has-done/lea-rose-emery

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

We’ve got three Heavens and two Hells so far, and when Jesus gets back we’ll get a New Jerusalem with a New Heaven, a Bottomless Pit and a Lake of Fire.

How many does that total?

Three heavens are easy to explain. The first heaven is the atmosphere of the earth. The second heaven is outer space and all of the Universe. The third heaven resides outside of the Universe and is where God abides. Paradise and the New Jerusalem are places where the Saints go. Hades, The Bottomless pit for satan until after the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ and then the bottomless pit. After the final Judgement, all those in hell and the others will be sent to the Lake of Fire with satan for their eternal abode. Paradise is the part of Hades where the Saints went BEFORE Christ died and rose again because He hadn't yet presented His blood sacrifice to the Father for their sins. After His resurrection, He brought them to heaven with Him.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Heaven is a Wonderful Place. Filled with Glory and Grace. I wanna see my Savior's Face. Heaven is a Wonderful Place.

 

[phrodeau]

Three heavens are easy to explain. The first heaven is the atmosphere of the earth. The second heaven is outer space and all of the Universe. The third heaven resides outside of the Universe and is where God abides. Paradise and the New Jerusalem are places where the Saints go. Hades, The Bottomless pit for satan until after the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ and then the bottomless pit. After the final Judgement, all those in hell and the others will be sent to the Lake of Fire with satan for their eternal abode. Paradise is the part of Hades where the Saints went BEFORE Christ died and rose again because He hadn't yet presented His blood sacrifice to the Father for their sins. After His resurrection, He brought them to heaven with Him.

So when Jesus told the thief that they’d be together in Paradise, He really meant that they were both going to Hell.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

So when Jesus told the thief that they’d be together in Paradise, He really meant that they were both going to Hell.

The Paradise side of Hades. Read the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

Lu 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[phrodeau]

It doesn’t sound all that grand. I think that Trump Tower offers a better view.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

It doesn’t sound all that grand. I think that Trump Tower offers a better view.

Are you referring to Paradise? It was a temporary holding place for those who would later be permitted into heaven.

 

[phrodeau]

Are you referring to Paradise? It was a temporary holding place for those who would later be permitted into heaven.

Temporary? How many millennia were they stuck there? Probably changed the drapes more than once.

 

[colddiesel]

Are you referring to Paradise? It was a temporary holding place for those who would later be permitted into heaven.

This was an unknown concept in Christianity until promulgated by Bishop Ireneus of Lyon in the 2nd century AD. It has become Roman Catholic orthodoxy and has from there been adopted by some Protestant churches.. Previously Paradise and Heaven were regarded as eschatologically identical

Originally Paradise was a Persian word for an enclosure or walled garden. The word in its directly Persian context is found in Nehemiah, Ecclesiastes and the Song of Solomon. There is no biblical source prior to 538 BC which is not surprising because there was no Hebrew/Persian language meeting prior to that date.

Where you find the word Paradise in other OT writings it has been translated as such from the Greek Septuagint (2nd century BC) and thus the source is both less clear and more recent. Its origins are also muddied by late redactions of the Genesis story and subsequent translations of dubious quality into Latin and then English.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Temporary? How many millennia were they stuck there? Probably changed the drapes more than once.

4 thousand years. From Adam to Christ's day. They could see into the torment side where the souls of the damned are reserved until the Great White Throne Judgement in the end of time.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

:d:d:d

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Miracles and medicine: Belief in God impacts end-of-life care

https://www.wnd.com/2019/11/miracles-medicine-belief-god-impacts-end-life-care/

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

This was an unknown concept in Christianity until promulgated by Bishop Ireneus of Lyon in the 2nd century AD. It has become Roman Catholic orthodoxy and has from there been adopted by some Protestant churches.. Previously Paradise and Heaven were regarded as eschatologically identical

Originally Paradise was a Persian word for an enclosure or walled garden. The word in its directly Persian context is found in Nehemiah, Ecclesiastes and the Song of Solomon. There is no biblical source prior to 538 BC which is not surprising because there was no Hebrew/Persian language meeting prior to that date.

Where you find the word Paradise in other OT writings it has been translated as such from the Greek Septuagint (2nd century BC) and thus the source is both less clear and more recent. Its origins are also muddied by late redactions of the Genesis story and subsequent translations of dubious quality into Latin and then English.

It doesn't matter who understood the Scriptures on this before others did. It matters what the Scriptures actually say. Looking at the story of the Rich man and Lazarus along with what Jesus said to the thief on the cross, plus where the Bible says that Jesus preached to the spirits in prison and other places, it's easy to deduce. Also, the Bible says that many in the earth were resurrected when Christ was resurrected and that He set the captives free. I can give you the Bible verses. I don't need a Catholic priest or a Church to tell me what's in the Bible.

 

[heathergives]

https://youtu.be/QZ8hefESt7c


Enough said.

 

[colddiesel]

I. I don't need a Catholic priest or a Church to tell me what's in the Bible.

But that is exactly what you copy. Your dogma is precisely the same as that preached by the Catholics for 2000 years. You personally, know next to nothing about the Bible or its history; other posters here have exposed your ignorance and absurd prejudices time without number

And Xfrodo you need to take a good lie down. You recently replied to yourself 4 times in a row spouting the same complete drivel. Talking to yourself- first sign...

 

[heathergives]

But that is exactly what you copy. Your dogma is precisely the same as that preached by the Catholics for 2000 years. You personally, know next to nothing about the Bible or its history; other posters here have exposed your ignorance and absurd prejudices time without number

And Xfrodo you need to take a good lie down. You recently replied to yourself 4 times in a row spouting the same complete drivel. Talking to yourself- first sign...

Indeed. My Karma ran over his dogma long ago.


Seriously, the Bible is little more than a morality guide, as is the Quran, the Hindu Gita, Buddhist teachings and Shinto doctrine.

One does not need religion to live an ethical life.

Don't forget that character is what one does when no one is looking. It's worked well for me.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

But that is exactly what you copy. Your dogma is precisely the same as that preached by the Catholics for 2000 years. You personally, know next to nothing about the Bible or its history; other posters here have exposed your ignorance and absurd prejudices time without number

And Xfrodo you need to take a good lie down. You recently replied to yourself 4 times in a row spouting the same complete drivel. Talking to yourself- first sign...

If you think that my Doctrine is the same as the Catholics, you are sadly mistaken. I know lots about the Bible and it's history, but it sounds to me like you don't. Think what you want, I have shown why these people are wrong and the Bible is right.

 

[Tryharder62]

https://youtu.be/QZ8hefESt7c


Enough said.

Isn't it amazing that George Carlin, gross and mouthy comedian of the '70s and '80s, could write something so very eloquent, and so very appropriate about "life and it's significance." What follows is a wonderful message from George Carlin (published after his wife's recent death): "The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings and shorter tempers, wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints. We spend more, but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less wellness. We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom. We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom and hate too often. We've learned how to make a living, but not a life. We've added years to life but not life to years. We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor. We conquered outer space but not inner space. We've done larger things, but not better things. We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul. We've conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less. We plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to wait. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but we communicate less and less. These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. These are the days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but broken homes. These are the days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one-night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill. It is a time when there is much in the showroom window, and nothing in the stockroom. A time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose to share this insight, or to just hit delete. Remember, spend some of your time with loved ones, because they are not going to be around forever. Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up at you in awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your side. Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you, because that is the only treasure you can give with your heart and it doesn't cost a cent. Remember to say, "I love you" to your partner and your loved ones, but most of all to mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep inside of you. Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment, for someday that person will not be there again. Give time to love, give time to speak, and give time to share the precious thoughts in your mind. Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

Source https://www.thesunchronicle.com/isn...cle_d262dc07-9b7b-58e0-8934-ff74907b6bab.html

I wonder who Carlin didn't pray enough to? I wonder what his soul is doing now?

 

[Tryharder62]

Indeed. My Karma ran over his dogma long ago.


Seriously, the Bible is little more than a morality guide, as is the Quran, the Hindu Gita, Buddhist teachings and Shinto doctrine.

One does not need religion to live an ethical life.

Don't forget that character is what one does when no one is looking. It's worked well for me.

I agree that some don't need religion to live an ethical life. I can't. If character is what one does when no one is looking then I admit to wanting to do things I shouldn't when I am alone. I need Jesus as my mentor and then I still screw up, but I try to move forward. That is my truth.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Indeed. My Karma ran over his dogma long ago.


Seriously, the Bible is little more than a morality guide, as is the Quran, the Hindu Gita, Buddhist teachings and Shinto doctrine.

One does not need religion to live an ethical life.

Don't forget that character is what one does when no one is looking. It's worked well for me.

Except the Bible is true and those others are false. When mohammad wrote the quran, he merely copied the eyewitness stories of the Bible and twisted them up. mohammad was NOT an eyewitness, but the Bible writers were.

If there is no God, there is no good or bad. The Bible tells us what God says about sin.

 

[phrodeau]

Except the Bible is true and those others are false. When mohammad wrote the quran, he merely copied the eyewitness stories of the Bible and twisted them up. mohammad was NOT an eyewitness, but the Bible writers were.

If there is no God, there is no good or bad. The Bible tells us what God says about sin.

God tells us not to make graven images, then tells us exactly how to make the Ark of the Covenant, the priestly breastplate, the tabernacles and the temples.

God tells us not to lie, then tells Abraham that he only has one son.

God tells us not to covet our neighbor’s goods, then encourages the Israelites to attack and pillage their neighbors.

God tells us not to commit adultery, then impregnates another man’s wife.

God tells us not to kill, then requires a human sacrifice.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

God tells us not to make graven images, then tells us exactly how to make the Ark of the Covenant, the priestly breastplate, the tabernacles and the temples.

God tells us not to lie, then tells Abraham that he only has one son.

God tells us not to covet our neighbor’s goods, then encourages the Israelites to attack and pillage their neighbors.

God tells us not to commit adultery, then impregnates another man’s wife.

God tells us not to kill, then requires a human sacrifice.

The Ark of the Covenant had a specific purpose that the Lord had determined. I believe it is a picture of the throne of God. The two Cheribums are probably in God's throne room worshiping Him 24/7 along with other creatures.

Abraham had cast his other wife and son, Ishmael and Haggar, out by that time because they persecuted Isaac and Sarah. Ishmael was a picture of fleshly man, while Isaac was a picture of Spiritual man. Even to this day, the fleshly man (Arabs) persecute the Spiritual man (Jews). They have throughout history.

God can make exceptions to His laws for specific purposes. You are judging God and God's intentions. God told them to pillage these neighbors as a judgement on them for their great evil sins.

Immaculate conception: God is not man and doesn't have to live by man's rules. God did that so that Jesus Christ could be born. There was no sex involved.

He requires everyone of us to go to hell and suffer for eternity for our sins. The only way out is by a perfect man who has never sinned, to step up and die in our place. Jesus Christ was the only person qualified to do that. His blood had to be shed and His life given for our sins. He also proved He was God via the resurrection.

Those examples you gave are God's exceptions. Since God is sovereign and we are not, He can do it or command it if He wants, but we can't. I trust God.

 

[colddiesel]

Abraham had cast his other wife and son, Ishmael and Haggar, out by that time because they persecuted Isaac and Sarah. Ishmael was a picture of fleshly man, while Isaac was a picture of Spiritual man. Even to this day, the fleshly man (Arabs) persecute the Spiritual man (Jews). They have throughout history.

Couple of facts:-

1 Abraham married his sister Sarah and fucked her to consummate their incest.
2 He later tried to trade Sarah to an Egyptian King to get him out of a tight spot.
3 He raped and therefore committed adultery with his wife's servant Hagar, and was responsible for the bastard Ishmael.
4 He evicted Hagar and Ishmael with nothing, thus denying any parental responsibilities.
5 Ishmael was a child so where does this fleshly man crap come from.
6 And you are trying to persecute Ishmael's descendants 100 generations later on the basis of this nonsense.

Abraham was an asshole and so was his god, your god for allowing it.

Mind when you consider what an asshole your god was to Hagar and Ishmael it does give some credence to the claim that you were made in his image.