Continuing A Story, Yes or No

[JPGmvny]

My first story, The Neallys, was pretty long. About 70K words over 5 parts. The number of parts was based on changing POVs.

When I finished, I got the urge to update so along came parts 6 and 7. I'm thinking of just carrying the story forward every two months or so, reflecting the passage of real time. The story's been well-received.

I may do it for myself anyway, but I wonder if readers will be interested.

 

[MadameSarcasm]

Only one way to find out!

 

[ElectricBlue]

My first story, The Neallys, was pretty long. About 70K words over 5 parts. The number of parts was based on changing POVs.

When I finished, I got the urge to update so along came parts 6 and 7. I'm thinking of just carrying the story forward every two months or so, reflecting the passage of real time. The story's been well-received.

I may do it for myself anyway, but I wonder if readers will be interested.

It sounds like the start of another "great unfinished story on Lit" where you just keep on and on until you die, run out of ideas, get bored, all of those.

I think most readers prefer finished stories (or at least the promise of a finish) - this sounds a bit like... not really a story at all. What do "real time" updates bring to the table, story-wise?

 

[Hypoxia]

I wrote a 3-story arc that expanded into an 18-chapter series. I definitely ended it at ch.18 because too many players... but spinoffs might occur. Tell a story that demands to be told but try to maintain SOME control or it can occupy the rest of your life. Be strong.

 

[8letters]

I personally wouldn't, as I like all the comments a new story gets. But the pay's the same no matter what you do, so do what you want.

 

[ruddygore]

One of my pet peeves are the never-ending stories that drag on forever. Find a finishing spot and end the story.

Having said that, I have no problem with sequels or other stories using the same characters. But they are separate stories that don't rely on the original one to be a good story.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I personally wouldn't, as I like all the comments a new story gets. But the pay's the same no matter what you do, so do what you want.

This.

One of my pet peeves are the never-ending stories that drag on forever. Find a finishing spot and end the story.

Having said that, I have no problem with sequels or other stories using the same characters. But they are separate stories that don't rely on the original one to be a good story.

That sounds like a challenge Might I suggest MelissaBaby’s Mary & Alvin, or my own Counting Pennies or the juggernaut: Tefler’s Three Square Meals as rebuttal.

 

[JPGmvny]

This.

That sounds like a challenge Might I suggest MelissaBaby’s Mary & Alvin, or my own Counting Pennies or the juggernaut: Tefler’s Three Square Meals as rebuttal.

Oy. Good suggestions both ways. I'm going to contact those long-running-tale authors for ideas. But the end-it-already thought is valid.

Which is why I wanted to solicit opinion.

Also, Vix, my saga begins with the first year of law school, my first MCs meeting on the third day. And while one of them, Kerry, didn't go to Fairfield, she went to Fordham undergrad.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Oy. Good suggestions both ways. I'm going to contact those long-running-tale authors for ideas. But the end-it-already thought is valid.

Which is why I wanted to solicit opinion.

Also, Vix, my saga begins with the first year of law school, my first MCs meeting on the third day. And while one of them, Kerry, didn't go to Fairfield, she went to Fordham undergrad.

Good school, and probably very relatable for your readers since there’s lots of Fordham grads that stay in NYC and law. I get a handful of questions about Fairfield and tbh, I’d never heard of the school before beginning the concept for Counting Pennies. Someone I met mentioned they were an alum; I embarrassed myself because I thought they meant they were a Freshfield’s firm alum!

 

[JPGmvny]

Good school, and probably very relatable for your readers since there’s lots of Fordham grads that stay in NYC and law. I get a handful of questions about Fairfield and tbh, I’d never heard of the school before beginning the concept for Counting Pennies. Someone I met mentioned they were an alum; I embarrassed myself because I thought they meant they were a Freshfield’s firm alum!

Thanks. Let me know if you're interested in giving me an answer to the why-I-wrote-a-long-story question.

I mentioned Fordham because both it and Fairfield are Jesuit Universities in the NYC area. (I went to neither, although I took the LSATs at Fordham.) Most of the characters in my stories have a Catholic upbringing. It can contribute to family tensions, particularly with gay members. (The MC in my in-the-queue goes to Fordham.)

 

[ElectricBlue]

Having said that, I have no problem with sequels or other stories using the same characters. But they are separate stories that don't rely on the original one to be a good story.

That's increasingly what I do. But I made a big mistake with a stand-alone set of my Floating World story cycle, by naming the first part of it Part 6 and then on to Part 10. The problem with that, was that many readers probably thought it was a continuation of the previous parts, and didn't even open it. Those that did - a high percentage read the whole thing, but not as many as it could have attracted if it had started at Chapter One.

This is evidenced by my latest, which is still, in my mind, a Floating World story (with the same male protagonist), but has a different story title. It has twice the number of Views as the other cycle already and, curiously, the Views of the second chapter have almost caught up with the first. That's unusual, I've always seen at least a fifty per cent drop in Chapter two Views. I need to finish the third chapter, to see if it does the same thing.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Thanks. Let me know if you're interested in giving me an answer to the why-I-wrote-a-long-story question.

I mentioned Fordham because both it and Fairfield are Jesuit Universities in the NYC area. (I went to neither, although I took the LSATs at Fordham.) Most of the characters in my stories have a Catholic upbringing. It can contribute to family tensions, particularly with gay members. (The MC in my in-the-queue goes to Fordham.)

That's an interesting background reasoning. My family's very Catholic, and my sister (MTF) and I (both of us are pansexual) have had a lot of experience with the Catholic family dynamic, but thankfully nothing so far as being disowned etc as in The Neallys. I made up everything that's related to Fairfield and Cardozo in the Counting Pennies series. I don't even know if Fairfield has a vocal studies department. An oddity for me, because everything else I write has some modicum of my personal experiences in it.

I think that story length varies by the needs of the story, as corny as that sounds. Write enough; no more or less. Counting Pennies/Investing Time/Spending Dollars was initially just a side story about two people working at the same firm as my real protagonist. All in, it and the "real" story, As an Apple Tree, are around 485k, half published and half still in draft.

Counting Pennies started with a legal question ("When is incest not incest?")and plot question ("What separated the MCs for 17 yrs?") After a general outline, I wrote the case law and then worked backwards to develop the plot and characters and wrote the first draft. Eventually, I split the draft into separate books because I'd started in first person, and it seemed easier to do that then start over again in third person (I have two separate POVs for the FMC and MMC).

I think the main reason the draft got longer was that I'd assumed certain plot points wouldn't need as much plot development as they did. For example, the story has "Hidden Princess" and "Doppelganger" tropes; FMC's relatives don't recognize her and MMC has a FWB that looks like the FMC as a little girl. But developing those tropes into something substantial took lots of plot and words.

I think that a "long" story (tbh, I think of a "long story" as something like Gone with the Wind or War & Peace, and but for Tefler, none of us have crossed that threshold yet) opens the door to writing meatier, more dimensional and psychoanalytical prose. The third book of this series, Spending Dollars, was heftier from the start because it reveals the answers to the two conceptual questions. But because the other stories laid the foundation, now it's longer because I can play around with highly nuanced characters and relationships!

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think that a "long" story (tbh, I think of a "long story" as something like Gone with the Wind or War & Peace, and but for Tefler, none of us have crossed that threshold yet) opens the door to writing meatier, more dimensional and psychoanalytical prose.

You've not found Lien Geller, then. He was writing magnum opi long before Tefler came along, and at a different level, I think (having sampled a bit of both).

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

You've not found Lien Geller, then. He was writing magnum opi long before Tefler came along, and at a different level, I think (having sampled a bit of both).

Annnnd I don’t think he’s found me either. He’d do well to

Edit: since posting, I’ve now read all of Lien Geller’s stories on Lit.

But I think you’re missing my point, which is that the stories I mentioned are quite long and intricate, with each new part building on the previous. Lien Geller’s opera are separate and independent stories of six to eight chapters max; the OP story, The Neallys, is already at that length, hence the discussion.

In any case, I’ll reiterate that my comments were clearly limited to the three examples I cited by authors who are currently writing very long stories, and the OP story.

And yes, yes it’s already been beaten to death on numerous other threads that all of us new writers are “subpar” to those who used to write on Literotica

 

[ruddygore]

One of my pet peeves are the never-ending stories that drag on forever. Find a finishing spot and end the story.

Having said that, I have no problem with sequels or other stories using the same characters. But they are separate stories that don't rely on the original one to be a good story.

This.



That sounds like a challenge Might I suggest MelissaBaby’s Mary & Alvin, or my own Counting Pennies or the juggernaut: Tefler’s Three Square Meals as rebuttal.

I tried Three Square Meals and quit somewhere around chapter 40. There were a couple of other things besides the length that made me give up. To me, the main thing is the longer stories need to be plot driven. Two good examples of longer ones that worked for me were Etaski's Red Sister collection, and TaLtos6's Big Blue Marble.

One of the nice things about Etaski's was outside the main story arc she had several side stories that you could read and enjoy without being familiar with the main arc.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Annnnd I don’t think he’s found me either. He’d do well to

Edit: since posting, I’ve now read all of Lien Geller’s stories on Lit.

But I think you’re missing my point, which is that the stories I mentioned are quite long and intricate, with each new part building on the previous. Lien Geller’s opera are separate and independent stories of six to eight chapters max; the OP story, The Neallys, is already at that length, hence the discussion.

In any case, I’ll reiterate that my comments were clearly limited to the three examples I cited by authors who are currently writing very long stories, and the OP story.

And yes, yes it’s already been beaten to death on numerous other threads that all of us new writers are “subpar” to those who used to write on Literotica

Lien must have taken his giant works down then, and published elsewhere, because his were huge - I doubt readable overnight. One, I remember was in excess of 80 Lit pages.

And no, this isn't a bash at the "past was so much better" - the singular comment was a comparison of two writers only (Tefler has some unearned crown as "the best ever" which is never true of any writer).

But these three writers, four if you include Lien Geller, are the exceptions. These writers did/do produce huge works (God knows how), but they are a tiny drop in a great Sargasso Sea of sprawling, tedious, unfinished works. That's the main point, don't just continue and continue and continue for the sake of it. Even LOTR and Star Wars finish eventually (hopefully).

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I tried Three Square Meals and quit somewhere around chapter 40. There were a couple of other things besides the length that made me give up. To me, the main thing is the longer stories need to be plot driven.

Yup, that was my point and, to my understanding, the OP’s too.

Two good examples of longer ones that worked for me were Etaski's Red Sister collection, and TaLtos6's Big Blue Marble.

One of the nice things about Etaski's was outside the main story arc she had several side stories that you could read and enjoy without being familiar with the main arc.

I agree; Etaski is an exciting writer and I’ve really enjoyed the stories I’ve read too! I forget she’s a “Literotica writer” because I get her story updates on Amazon. In general, I don’t enjoy amateur fantasy or sci-fi writing so I find her stories particularly impressive.

Lien must have taken his giant works down then, and published elsewhere, because his were huge - I doubt readable overnight. One, I remember was in excess of 80 Lit pages.

Must have; I read the entire catalogue in about an hour and a half.

That's the main point, don't just continue and continue and continue for the sake of it. Even LOTR and Star Wars finish eventually (hopefully).

If I were making hundreds of millions or billions from my stories, they would go on forever without end like Star Wars.

And since I’m writing for free, I might go on forever without end. Or, one day, I may decide to just stop writing without an ending to anything.

What difference would it really make, and what would it affect (except a bit of storage space?) if an author just decided something along the lines of “I want to write for my own enjoyment until I no longer enjoy writing anymore”? It seems a handful of forum participants really condemn this but I haven’t really seen a reason why it’s unacceptable. To me, the beauty of this Literotica publishing platform is that (besides general site rules obviously) there are no deadlines, no parameters, no metrics, no criteria, no singular audience appeal, no right way, no wrong way etc etc, except those that are completely self-imposed.

 

[ElectricBlue]

What difference would it really make, and what would it affect (except a bit of storage space?) if an author just decided something along the lines of “I want to write for my own enjoyment until I no longer enjoy writing anymore”? It seems a handful of forum participants really condemn this but I haven’t really seen a reason why it’s unacceptable. To me, the beauty of this Literotica publishing platform is that (besides general site rules obviously) there are no deadlines, no parameters, no metrics, no criteria, no singular audience appeal, no right way, no wrong way etc etc, except those that are completely self-imposed.

Indeed, that is a fair enough point. But...

Keep in mind that long term forum players are (generally) just reporting feedback seen over the years from readers, where the "great unfinished stories on Lit" ARE very unpopular, to the extent that some readers set up a ridiculous discrimination against multi-chapter stories simply because they have become invested in these, only to end up disappointed because so many of these stories just stop; and they've been disappointed so, so many, times before. It's a regular complaint, when readers wander into the Author's Hangout.

So when new authors come on board and ask for advice (as the OP did), the common answer is, "Don't embark on one of these ventures unless a) you can commit to finishing it; or b) finish it before publishing it." That's reasonable advice, if you're a reader oriented writer. It doesn't make it right advice, it doesn't make it wrong advice - it's merely reporting what people have observed re "what pisses the reader off." Other than, "Oh but it's in the wrong category," unfinished stories are probably the single biggest complaint on Lit.

The OP asked, "will readers be interested?" The collective wisdom is, "Yes, provided you finish the bloody thing." Ideally, before you publish.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Indeed, that is a fair enough point. But...

It's a regular complaint, when readers wander into the Author's Hangout.

The OP asked, "will readers be interested?" The collective wisdom is, "Yes, provided you finish the bloody thing." Ideally, before you publish.

I’m asking this for my own edification; I’ve wondered what’s the weighted basis for such advice, or, if there even were such. I’ve never noticed readers visiting the forum to raise this compliant, but now knowing some have, I can see some reason for the presumption there’s a skew.

Nonetheless, I think correlating that feedback to the advice “Readers will be interested in your continuing/serialized long story only if it’s completed” is logically and mathematically faulted. Firstly, readers statistically become engaged in a serialized story at its beginning and not at its ending, and individual readership of a serial multi-chapter story can fall off along the way for any number of reasons... illustratively, as ruddygore pointed out above, he fell off Three Square Meals while it was(is) in progress. Secondly, reader data, to the extent it’s even known is entirely stochastic and Literotica has no tools to calculate any form of heteroscedasticity. Without that, any presumed skew is meaningless.

To me, it’s unsettling when I see writers discourage a new writer from writing whatever s/he wants on the advice that “readers will not” or “readers tend towards” because reader interests are not normalized data. Such advice comes across to me like telling someone who wants to win Powerball that they should not play unless they play a seven or thirty-five, or some other specific number that’s been on a former winning ticket. That advice is illogical because each draw is entirely random; the only, singular way to win Powerball is to play it. Since odds are mathematically against a new author that s/he will have a substantial readership, the singular way to gain readers is to just write.

 

[CoffeeWithMonkeys]

I don't know, I say if you still enjoy writing it and have at least one person still interested in reading, do it!

I kind of see it like a tv series, just keep going, but stop before you jump the shark! Or heck jump the shark if it works

 

[JPGmvny]

I don't know, I say if you still enjoy writing it and have at least one person still interested in reading, do it!

I kind of see it like a tv series, just keep going, but stop before you jump the shark! Or heck jump the shark if it works

OP here. Thanks for all the replies. My most recent part has not gotten much readership, but is well-rated. (It also is a change of category.) That's fine. I think I'm going to keep doing it, hoping the parts are interesting enough to please some readers, which is, with my enjoying the writing, the point. At least until Henry Winkler makes an appearance.

I did write a stand-alone story for one MC of events in her life that preceded the longer one. Her backstory was too long to include.

 

[CoffeeWithMonkeys]

OP here. Thanks for all the replies. My most recent part has not gotten much readership, but is well-rated. (It also is a change of category.) That's fine. I think I'm going to keep doing it, hoping the parts are interesting enough to please some readers, which is, with my enjoying the writing, the point. At least until Henry Winkler makes an appearance.

I did write a stand-alone story for one MC of events in her life that preceded the longer one. Her backstory was too long to include.

My latest series I'm working on is the same, not many readers now that I'm on chapter 17, but the people still reading seem to enjoy it, and I'm still enjoying writing it so I'll continue.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I’m asking this for my own edification; I’ve wondered what’s the weighted basis for such advice, or, if there even were such. I’ve never noticed readers visiting the forum to raise this compliant, but now knowing some have, I can see some reason for the presumption there’s a skew.

Just reporting a common complaint, is all I'm doing. I've been in the AH for five or so years now, and it's a common enough bitch from readers, like Autumn follows Summer, like Spring follows Winter. Yes, you can do the numbers any way you like, the fact remains that readers do bitch about it, some readers are automatically prejudiced against multi-chapter stories because of it, and many writers specifically address it in a preamble to their stories by saying, "This is a finished story."

The OP asked for advice, I gave some, based on my singular experience. Advice is advice, you can take it or leave it. But I've not yet seen a single someone say, "Gee, I love these stories that just... stop. Write more of those, they're

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

OP here. Thanks for all the replies. My most recent part has not gotten much readership, but is well-rated. (It also is a change of category.) That's fine. I think I'm going to keep doing it, hoping the parts are interesting enough to please some readers, which is, with my enjoying the writing, the point. At least until Henry Winkler makes an appearance.

I did write a stand-alone story for one MC of events in her life that preceded the longer one. Her backstory was too long to include.

Glad to hear. I’m just one reader obviously, but I will remain a reader as long as you plan to write.

Just reporting a common complaint, is all I'm doing. I've been in the AH for five or so years now, and it's a common enough bitch from readers, like Autumn follows Summer, like Spring follows Winter. Yes, you can do the numbers any way you like, the fact remains that readers do bitch about it, some readers are automatically prejudiced against multi-chapter stories because of it, and many writers specifically address it in a preamble to their stories by saying, "This is a finished story."

The OP asked for advice, I gave some, based on my singular experience. Advice is advice, you can take it or leave it. But I've not yet seen a single someone say, "Gee, I love these stories that just... stop. Write more of those, they're

Anecdotally, my favorite story on Literotica, and underlying inspiration to write erotica, is The Human Condition by jfinn, which isn’t finished. Jfinn was long gone (decades gone) before I read it—she stopped posting in 2003. But The Human Condition is on many sites and must-read lists (even mainstream, non-erotica short story lists), and people are still reading and sharing and discussing it; someone left a comment on Literotica just a few months ago about how they always return to re-read this memorable story.

Obviously, every writer has different goals and benchmarks. But for me, the type of success The Human Condition had is my goal: I want to write something that means enough to readers that it becomes a positive, lasting part of who they are in real life, and is meaningful enough that a community of readers builds up around it. No guarantees, except that I’ll fail if I don’t try.

Who knows why jfinn didn’t finish The Human Comdition; she’s touched many lives, so thankfully she started even though she didn’t finish it. A blog I once read argued that part of the appeal and success of the story is the fact it’s not finished; the blogger hypothesized that the open ending actually draws reader interest since they can imagine for themselves what happens after the

 

[MelissaBaby]

It sounds like the start of another "great unfinished story on Lit" where you just keep on and on until you die, run out of ideas, get bored, all of those.

I think most readers prefer finished stories (or at least the promise of a finish) - this sounds a bit like... not really a story at all. What do "real time" updates bring to the table, story-wise?

I always intended Mary and Alvin to be a long multi-chaptered story. As my first series was basically short and to a clear point, I wanted to write something that was diametrically different, long and encompassing a wide range of relationship issues. My stated intention from the beginning was to write a "relationship biography", the life story of an enduring romance.

I recognized that it might, as Hypoxia said, come to occupy MY whole life. So, as soon as I finished the first chapter, I wrote a rough draft of the last. Once I knew the certain end point, I outlined a path between them. I originally sketched about two dozen chapters, each part of the main story but also following some smaller story arc. Some were almost fully formed on inception, some were just vague notions of something I would cover (Mary meets Alvin's family, for example).

I thought that would be it; I had my building blocks, I'd build my story. But, of course, it's not that simple. Characters force you into complications. You realize that certain actions require a more involved response than you had intended, An issue you threw in as color or deep background take on more importance than you had imagined and demands resolution.

Two dozen chapters will grow to about three. But I have tried to make sure I did not allow myself to stray too far from that original path.

As a writer, I find the idea of doing a "real time" series intriguing. In reality, I suspect it would grow tedious for both author and audience.