Megan Rapinoe, Colin Kaepernick, and how the Democrats abandoned patriotism!

[dan_c00000]

The stock market today

Isn't the economy. Your alt, racist dawn, has tried to make this point several times and has gotten absolutely shredded.

It's worth noting that under Trump real wages have gone down. The people Trump claimed he was going to help out, of course, didn't get that help.

Next, I'm sure, your racist alt dawn is going to tell us how that empty shell of a plant that Foxconn built in Wisconsin is really a smashing success.

 

[Dumpington]

dan_c00000 writes: "Isn't the economy. Your alt, racist dawn, has tried to make this point several times and has gotten absolutely shredded."

The economy was being shredded during the Obama years. Dan, with stagnant economic growth along with $10-trillion added to our national debt (and this after Senator Obama said that Bush was "unpatriotic" for increasing the debt by $4-trillion!) The current crop of Democratic Party presidential candidates are NOT bringing up the U.S. economy in their debates for good reason! There's nothing there to complain about!

"It's worth noting that under Trump real wages have gone down. The people Trump claimed he was going to help out, of course, didn't get that help."

That's a nice attempt at a history re-write, Dan! The fact is, unemployment numbers are at historic LOWS, which is BAD NEWS for Democrats! But yes, you & Bill Maher can continue to hope & pray for a recession - if that's what you really want.

"Next, I'm sure, your racist alt dawn is going to tell us how that empty shell of a plant that Foxconn built in Wisconsin is really a smashing success."

Yesterday in Texas state senate district 19, conservative Republican Pete Flores defeated his Democrat opponent (Pete Gallego) in an area dominated by Hispanics! It marks the first time in 139 Years that the Republicans have won in that district! Flores’ win marks an incredible upset in a district that political observers said shouldn’t have even been competitive for Republicans.

 

[YDB95]

dan_c00000 writes: "Isn't the economy. Your alt, racist dawn, has tried to make this point several times and has gotten absolutely shredded."

The economy was being shredded during the Obama years. Dan, with stagnant economic growth along with $10-trillion added to our national debt (and this after Senator Obama said that Bush was "unpatriotic" for increasing the debt by $4-trillion!) The current crop of Democratic Party presidential candidates are NOT bringing up the U.S. economy in their debates for good reason! There's nothing there to complain about!

Oh, but there is if you're not among the super-rich. Trump made a LOT of big promises that he hasn't been able to follow through on at all.

"It's worth noting that under Trump real wages have gone down. The people Trump claimed he was going to help out, of course, didn't get that help."

That's a nice attempt at a history re-write, Dan! The fact is, unemployment numbers are at historic LOWS, which is BAD NEWS for Democrats! But yes, you & Bill Maher can continue to hope & pray for a recession - if that's what you really want.

Did you miss the part where Dan said "real wages" and nothing about unemployment numbers? Or did you think they were the same thing. Low unemployment rates are only so good if the jobs aren't paying a living wage. (And again, "unemployment numbers" refer only to people who are actively looking for work, not those who've given up and not those who have taken a job that pays well below their real skill level because it's the best they can find.)

"Next, I'm sure, your racist alt dawn is going to tell us how that empty shell of a plant that Foxconn built in Wisconsin is really a smashing success."

Yesterday in Texas state senate district 19, conservative Republican Pete Flores defeated his Democrat opponent (Pete Gallego) in an area dominated by Hispanics! It marks the first time in 139 Years that the Republicans have won in that district! Flores’ win marks an incredible upset in a district that political observers said shouldn’t have even been competitive for Republicans.

That was last year, Dump.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "Oh, but there is if you're not among the super-rich. Trump made a LOT of big promises that he hasn't been able to follow through on at all."

You are SO PREDICTABLE, YDB95 - you're just like those liberal Democrats in 1991 who tried to credit Jimmy Carter's weak-foreign-policy with successfully ending the Cold War with a lopsided victory by the western powers, when everybody KNOWS it was Reagan! Trump fixes the U.S. economy and YOU try to credit President "Rainbow Lights" Obama. In addition to creating a booming economy here at home, Trump is forcing our trading partners to re-negotiate unfair trade deals, he's securing our nation's borders, he's rebuilt the U.S. military, he's blown ISIS to smithereens, and the guy certainly knows how to appoint competent judges! Obama was the guy who couldn't keep any of his promises!

"Did you miss the part where Dan said "real wages" and nothing about unemployment numbers?"

You don't understand how basic economics work. When there are LOTS of jobs available, you go out and pick the one that pays you the MOST! When the jobs aren't there (see: the Obama years), you take whatever is available. America & Americans are far more PROSPEROUS under Trump than we were under our "food stamps president," Barack Obama!

NONE of the Democratic Party's 2020 presidential candidates are bringing up the economy as a campaign issue - WHY do you suppose that is? If Americans were struggling, you'd think that somebody would be pointing it out in their debates, wouldn't you? But they're NOT!

 

[YDB95]

YDB95 writes: "Oh, but there is if you're not among the super-rich. Trump made a LOT of big promises that he hasn't been able to follow through on at all."

You are SO PREDICTABLE, YDB95 - you're just like those liberal Democrats in 1991 who tried to credit Jimmy Carter's weak-foreign-policy with successfully ending the Cold War with a lopsided victory by the western powers, when everybody KNOWS it was Reagan!

First of all, I don't recall anyone crediting Carter (and I won't even bother asking you for an example). Secondly, what everybody who knows the whole story KNOWS about the fall of the USSR is that it had already been collapsing under its own weight for at least a decade. At most, Reagan sped up the process by four or five years. Despite what you have undoubtedly read in some corner of the Internet, Ronald Reagan was not in fact twelve feet tall with laser vision and the ability to charm communists into submission with his smile.

Trump fixes the U.S. economy and YOU try to credit President "Rainbow Lights" Obama. In addition to creating a booming economy here at home, Trump is forcing our trading partners to re-negotiate unfair trade deals, he's securing our nation's borders, he's rebuilt the U.S. military, he's blown ISIS to smithereens, and the guy certainly knows how to appoint competent judges! Obama was the guy who couldn't keep any of his promises!

Tell it to the farmers, Dump.

"Did you miss the part where Dan said "real wages" and nothing about unemployment numbers?"

You don't understand how basic economics work. When there are LOTS of jobs available, you go out and pick the one that pays you the MOST! When the jobs aren't there (see: the Obama years), you take whatever is available. America & Americans are far more PROSPEROUS under Trump than we were under our "food stamps president," Barack Obama!

I understand economics just fine. The point is, there haven't been LOTS of jobs available in a very long time now, and right-wing economic policy is doing its best to keep it that way while lining the pockets of the already ultra-rich. And Obama couldn't very well snap his fingers and undo the Global Financial Crisis.

NONE of the Democratic Party's 2020 presidential candidates are bringing up the economy as a campaign issue - WHY do you suppose that is? If Americans were struggling, you'd think that somebody would be pointing it out in their debates, wouldn't you? But they're NOT!

They are bringing it up. You just don't want to hear it.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "Secondly, what everybody who knows the whole story KNOWS about the fall of the USSR is that it had already been collapsing under its own weight for at least a decade."

Reagan's policies FORCED the Soviet Union to collapse when it did. America had STRONG leadership and the Russians knew it! The U.S.S.R. would never have folded with a weak U.S. president like Carter (or Obama) in the White House!

"Tell it to the farmers, Dump."

Barack Obama allowed American manufacturing AND agriculture get screwed over by the Chinese for eight-long-years because the guy had NO IDEA how to negotiate trade deals! We were also getting screwed-over by Mexico, Canada, & the Europeans! Trump is FIXING that! America's farmers will NOT be voting Democrat in 2020!

The only negotiating that Obama did was with Iran, where he allowed that America-hating nation to have EVERYTHING they asked for! Barack was a terrible president!

"I understand economics just fine."

No - I don't think you do. Because if you did you'd be acknowledging what a simpleton President Obama was when trying to deal with economic matters!

"They are bringing it up. You just don't want to hear it."

In that last round of Democratic Party presidential debates, NOT ONE candidate (or moderator) brought up the economy. What could they possibly say? It's not an issue!

 

[YDB95]

YDB95 writes: "Secondly, what everybody who knows the whole story KNOWS about the fall of the USSR is that it had already been collapsing under its own weight for at least a decade."

Reagan's policies FORCED the Soviet Union to collapse when it did. America had STRONG leadership and the Russians knew it! The U.S.S.R. would never have folded with a weak U.S. president like Carter (or Obama) in the White House!

If by "forced the Soviet Union to collapse when it did," you mean "maybe five years sooner than it inevitably would have," you're probably right. But no US president could have countered the reality that they were out of gas, no matter how strong or weak.

"Tell it to the farmers, Dump."

Barack Obama allowed American manufacturing AND agriculture get screwed over by the Chinese for eight-long-years because the guy had NO IDEA how to negotiate trade deals! We were also getting screwed-over by Mexico, Canada, & the Europeans! Trump is FIXING that! America's farmers will NOT be voting Democrat in 2020!

They probably won't, but how can even you believe Trump is "fixing" anything when farmers are in the worst position financially they've been in since at least the '80s and maybe the '30s?

And just where are all these brilliant trade deals Trump has struck? I'm sure they're all right there in your imagination, of course.

The only negotiating that Obama did was with Iran, where he allowed that America-hating nation to have EVERYTHING they asked for! Barack was a terrible president!

Leading a successful push for Iran to restrain its nukes in order to get its assets unfrozen - just how "terrible" is that? I sincerely doubt the Iranians believe it's everything they asked for, either.

"I understand economics just fine."

No - I don't think you do. Because if you did you'd be acknowledging what a simpleton President Obama was when trying to deal with economic matters!

What do you think he should have done differently? More fiscal austerity in the face of the worst economic downturn since the '30s? That's what caused the Great Depression, Dump.

"They are bringing it up. You just don't want to hear it."

In that last round of Democratic Party presidential debates, NOT ONE candidate (or moderator) brought up the economy. What could they possibly say? It's not an issue!

First of all, I suspect you were just hearing what you want to hear, which is what you always do. But even if you're right, perhaps that's because there was really no need to bring it up - all on our side of the aisle are already agreed that Trump's giveaways to the rich are a disaster and need to be undone.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "But no US president could have countered the reality that they were out of gas, no matter how strong or weak."

The Democratic Party had NO strong leaders by the late 1970's. Jimmy Carter was weak, and Ted Kennedy was still hobbled by what had happened ten years earlier at Chappaquiddick. Reagan blew-away Carter, Mondale, and then the Soviet Union. The man was clearly our greatest president of the late 20th century!

"And just where are all these brilliant trade deals Trump has struck?"

You haven't been paying attention. Trump has already re-negotiated trade deals with Canada, Mexico, & the European Union. America's farmers know that Trump is fighting for them, just as they knew that Obama & Hillary were NOT! Look at an election map sometime. How did farm states Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Texas, South Dakota, North Dakota, Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, & South Carolina all vote in 2016?

"Leading a successful push for Iran to restrain its nukes in order to get its assets unfrozen..."

The Iranians didn't have to do squat - John Kerry negotiated a deal that gave them everything they asked for, with no guarantees that they'd follow through. Obama, like Jimmy Carter, was exactly the WEAK kind of U.S. president that Iran loves!

"What do you think he should have done differently? More fiscal austerity in the face of the worst economic downturn since the '30s? That's what caused the Great Depression, Dump."

Baloney! Rahm Emanuel used that "never let a crisis go to waste" mentality to talk Obama into launching a multi-trillion-dollar spending spree that accomplished nothing (aside from adding $10-trillion to our debt!) You're going to have to acknowledge someday that Barack is an economic simpleton, YDB95!

 

[YDB95]

The man was clearly our greatest president of the late 20th century!

The man was a senile, bumbling old man who didn't know anything about anything beyond "commies are bad". Which wasn't exactly in dispute at that point.

"And just where are all these brilliant trade deals Trump has struck?"

You haven't been paying attention. Trump has already re-negotiated trade deals with Canada, Mexico, & the European Union. America's farmers know that Trump is fighting for them, just as they knew that Obama & Hillary were NOT! Look at an election map sometime. How did farm states Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Texas, South Dakota, North Dakota, Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, & South Carolina all vote in 2016?

I'm aware of how those states voted. I'm equally aware it had nothing to do with trade deals. Those are mostly very red states where just having an R after his name was enough.

"Leading a successful push for Iran to restrain its nukes in order to get its assets unfrozen..."

The Iranians didn't have to do squat - John Kerry negotiated a deal that gave them everything they asked for, with no guarantees that they'd follow through. Obama, like Jimmy Carter, was exactly the WEAK kind of U.S. president that Iran loves!

That simply isn't true. I'd tell you to read up on it, but I can guess what the sources you use would have to say about it.

"What do you think he should have done differently? More fiscal austerity in the face of the worst economic downturn since the '30s? That's what caused the Great Depression, Dump."

Baloney! Rahm Emanuel used that "never let a crisis go to waste" mentality to talk Obama into launching a multi-trillion-dollar spending spree that accomplished nothing (aside from adding $10-trillion to our debt!) You're going to have to acknowledge someday that Barack is an economic simpleton, YDB95!

Spending to spur the economy is the way out of a recession. And avoiding a second Great Depression is not my idea of "accomplished nothing".

 

[dan_c00000]

If by yesterday you mean a year ago. By the way Flores is going to retired.

Fuck dump/bot/dawn you just got owned hard for being a racist.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "The man was a senile, bumbling old man who didn't know anything about anything beyond "commies are bad". Which wasn't exactly in dispute at that point."

I'm guessing that if you had been around back in 1984, YDB95, you would have been a Mondale supporter! He was the Barack Obama of the nineteen-eighties!

"I'm aware of how those states voted."

America's farm states are Republican Party strongholds.

"That simply isn't true. I'd tell you to read up on it, but I can guess what the sources you use would have to say about it."

Iran's anti-American Islamic theocracy benefitted greatly from the Obama presidency.

"Spending to spur the economy is the way out of a recession."

Economies tend to move in cycles. If Barack Obama had done absolutely nothing, our U.S. economy would have righted itself quickly enough. Instead he chose to go on a $10-trillion spending spree that we'll be paying for for the next century!

dan_c00000 writes: "Fuck dump/bot/dawn you just got owned hard for being a racist."

You are the "poster-child" for this forum's Trump-haters, Dan - keep up the good work!

 

[magicalmoments]

The world belongs to patriots. Can you imagine when all nations adopt trumps vision of patriotism, just substitute their own logo in place of the USA. All isolated, all in their own corners, all working to make their particular shithole a little better or a little more like it was 50 years ago.
I tell you what, the winners in that scenario are going to be those who find allies, others with common interests that the can combine to exploit the others.

 

[Dumpington]

magicalmoments writes: "The world belongs to patriots."

Modern anti-Trump progressives view Colin Kaepernick & Megan Rapinoe as "patriots," despite them both hating this country.

"Can you imagine when all nations adopt trumps vision of patriotism, just substitute their own logo in place of the USA."

President Trump actually LOVES the United States. President Obama didn't.

"All isolated, all in their own corners, all working to make their particular shithole a little better or a little more like it was 50 years ago."

America's rat-&-rodent-infested sh*tholes are ALL Democratic Party strongholds! There's Detroit, the west side of Baltimore, the murder-capital of the world (Chicago), and those human-excrement-smeared sidewalks of San Francisco!

"I tell you what, the winners in that scenario are going to be those who find allies, others with commo interests that the can combine to exploit the others."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKfASw6qoag - ("This Magic Moment" by Jay and the Americans - runs 3:02)

 

[YDB95]

Economies tend to move in cycles. If Barack Obama had done absolutely nothing, our U.S. economy would have righted itself quickly enough.

That has been proven wrong repeatedly for as long as the idea has existed.

Instead he chose to go on a $10-trillion spending spree that we'll be paying for for the next century!

Not if we roll back Trump and Dumbya's giveaways to the ultra-rich. Besides, anyone who calls Ronald Reagan the greatest president of the 20th century - as you have repeatedly - loses any right to complain about deficits. He ran up more of them than all previous presidents combined.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "That has been proven wrong repeatedly for as long as the idea has existed."

Your absurd belief that President Obama saved us from a second great depression assumes that Barack had even the slightest knowledge of basic economics - which he most certainly did NOT! The truth is, Obama attempted to PURCHASE an economic recovery with a $10-trillion spending spree that resulted in massive new debt and eight years of stagnant economic growth! Of course, the Obama-apologists insist that Barack actually planned it all that way - eight years of tepid economic growth followed by an economic-BOOM beginning the day after he left office! Seriously! There are some progressive-lefties who think that's what must have happened!

"Not if we roll back Trump and Dumbya's giveaways to the ultra-rich."

You subscribe to the politics-of-envy, YDB95 - like most modern Democrats, you want to PUNISH those people who invest & earn money.

"Besides, anyone who calls Ronald Reagan the greatest president of the 20th century - as you have repeatedly - loses any right to complain about deficits. He ran up more of them than all previous presidents combined."

First of all. there is NO twentieth century president greater than Reagan - name just one if you disagree! Secondly, Barack's massive $10-trillion in deficit spending is greater than Reagan, Bush's, and every other U.S. president COMBINED!

 

[YDB95]

YDB95 writes: "That has been proven wrong repeatedly for as long as the idea has existed."

Your absurd belief that President Obama saved us from a second great depression assumes that Barack had even the slightest knowledge of basic economics - which he most certainly did NOT!

I certainly trust his judgment more than yours.

The truth is, Obama attempted to PURCHASE an economic recovery with a $10-trillion spending spree that resulted in massive new debt and eight years of stagnant economic growth!

I refer back to my earlier comment. You can be a deficit hawk OR you can worship Ronald Reagan. Not both.

Of course, the Obama-apologists insist that Barack actually planned it all that way - eight years of tepid economic growth followed by an economic-BOOM beginning the day after he left office! Seriously! There are some progressive-lefties who think that's what must have happened!

And yet you can't name a single one. (Cue Dump quoting some Democrat saying something else entirely and claiming it's the same...)

"Not if we roll back Trump and Dumbya's giveaways to the ultra-rich."

You subscribe to the politics-of-envy, YDB95 - like most modern Democrats, you want to PUNISH those people who invest & earn money.

I've got to admit, that "punishing success" line is pretty clever. But asking people to give their fair share back to the country that enabled them to get where they are is not punishment, it's providing for the common good and it's a matter of decency. Besides that, Republicans have been claiming for decades that if we cut taxes on the rich, they'll invest the money and create jobs for everyone - but the record shows the exact opposite. They mostly just keep it. That's why we now have the widest gap between rich and poor since the Gilded Age.

"Besides, anyone who calls Ronald Reagan the greatest president of the 20th century - as you have repeatedly - loses any right to complain about deficits. He ran up more of them than all previous presidents combined."

First of all. there is NO twentieth century president greater than Reagan - name just one if you disagree!

All of them, Dump. Even Nixon.

Secondly, Barack's massive $10-trillion in deficit spending is greater than Reagan, Bush's, and every other U.S. president COMBINED!

You're confusing spending with deficits here.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "You can be a deficit hawk OR you can worship Ronald Reagan. Not both."

You can be an Obama-supporter OR you can love the United States - but not both.

President Reagan took over the presidency at the heighth of the Cold War. Jimmy Carter had allowed the Soviet Union to take over Afghanistan, he'd allowed the Castro-wannabee Sandinista's to take over in Nicaragua (and begin to create another Marxist-Socialist Cuba), and Carter allowed the America-hating Islamic theocracy in Iran to sieze our nation's embassy in Tehran (siezing another nation's embassy is an act of war) without doing a damn thing about it! Reagan quickly re-built America's military and went about returning things to normal. We basically WON the Cold War under Reagan's leadership!

"And yet you can't name a single one."

You've NEVER named a single thing that economic-simpleton Barack Obama did to save the world from another Great Depression. And yes, you KNOW as well as I do that he's an economic simpleton! EVERYBODY knows it! The only thing he understood about money was how to fundraise for Democratic Party candidates with his Hollywood/entertainment-community friends! (But those Democrat candidates he raised money for pretty-much ALL got beat!)

"...asking people to give their fair share back to the country that enabled them to get where they are is not punishment, it's providing for the common good"

The Democratic Party will always find ways to waste our money trying to purchase votes for their party. Democrats HATE the idea of people getting to keep more of the money that they've earned. They hate tax-cuts and spending-cuts (unless they involve cutting military spending!)

"All of them, Dump. Even Nixon."

Nixon accomplished more than Carter, Clinton, & Obama combined! But Ronald Reagan was far-&-away the greatest president of the 20th-century! The Berlin Wall & Iron Curtain both came down as a direct result of the policies put into place by Reagan!

"You're confusing spending with deficits here."

There's absolutely NOTHING confusing about an additional $10-trillion added onto our national debt (and this from the same guy who said that Bush was "unpatriotic" for increasing it by $4-trillion!)

 

[YDB95]

YDB95 writes: "You can be a deficit hawk OR you can worship Ronald Reagan. Not both."

You can be an Obama-supporter OR you can love the United States - but not both.

Apples and oranges. Reagan talked constantly about fiscal responsibility, but also ran up more red ink than every president from George Washington through Jimmy Carter combined. Your only basis for your comment about Obama there is that you think everyone who disagrees with you hates America.

President Reagan took over the presidency at the heighth of the Cold War. Jimmy Carter had allowed the Soviet Union to take over Afghanistan, he'd allowed the Castro-wannabee Sandinista's to take over in Nicaragua (and begin to create another Marxist-Socialist Cuba), and Carter allowed the America-hating Islamic theocracy in Iran to sieze our nation's embassy in Tehran (siezing another nation's embassy is an act of war) without doing a damn thing about it!

Carter did send forces in to rescue the hostages. The mission failed, true, but that's not the same as "not doing a damn thing about it". Besides, he did ultimately bring the hostages home safe. (Despite what I'm sure you believe, Reagan didn't do it in the five minutes or so he'd been president at the time.) How exactly was he to prevent the Soviets from invading Afghanistan? That's not even touching on how Reagan went on to play footsie with the precursors to Al Qaeda in response. And the previous government in Nicaragua was a right-wing dictatorship, certainly nothing it was appropriate for us to prop up.

Reagan quickly re-built America's military and went about returning things to normal. We basically WON the Cold War under Reagan's leadership!

Closer to the truth to say he bankrupted the country on military bloat while the Soviet bloc was collapsing under its own weight anyway.

"And yet you can't name a single one."

You've NEVER named a single thing that economic-simpleton Barack Obama did to save the world from another Great Depression.

I don't need to: you've already mentioned it repeatedly. Spending heavily to spur the economy is a legitimate and effective strategy. It likely would have worked better if he'd spent more, but that wasn't politically feasible.

And yes, you KNOW as well as I do that he's an economic simpleton! EVERYBODY knows it! The only thing he understood about money was how to fundraise for Democratic Party candidates with his Hollywood/entertainment-community friends! (But those Democrat candidates he raised money for pretty-much ALL got beat!)

Economics is a science, albeit one with a mixed reputation as a science. It's a lot more complicated than "debts are bad" (which, for one thing, they aren't necessarily). Incidentally, businesses finance with debt all the time, and when they can't pay it back, it's become the norm for the government to bail them out. Notably with the $700 billion the Bush administration shelled out just before Obama was elected. Incidentally, that number wasn't based on any sort of analysis - they just knew they needed a really big number.

"...asking people to give their fair share back to the country that enabled them to get where they are is not punishment, it's providing for the common good"

The Democratic Party will always find ways to waste our money trying to purchase votes for their party. Democrats HATE the idea of people getting to keep more of the money that they've earned.

Quite the contrary, Dump. Most of the tax policies I was referring to had nothing to do with earned money. The estate tax, for example, was - by definition - never applied to the person who earned that money.

They hate tax-cuts and spending-cuts (unless they involve cutting military spending!)

Well, we hate them when we're already financially strapped, that's true. There's a time to cut taxes, but that time is not when the infrastructure is crumbling and poverty is on the rise.

"All of them, Dump. Even Nixon."

Nixon accomplished more than Carter, Clinton, & Obama combined! But Ronald Reagan was far-&-away the greatest president of the 20th-century! The Berlin Wall & Iron Curtain both came down as a direct result of the policies put into place by Reagan!

Not according to people who have actually studied the minutiae of what happened.

"You're confusing spending with deficits here."

There's absolutely NOTHING confusing about an additional $10-trillion added onto our national debt (and this from the same guy who said that Bush was "unpatriotic" for increasing it by $4-trillion!)

Again, if you're going to argue that Reagan was the greatest, you've got no credibility on this. None.

 

[JKendallDane]

(Dump said~) "....and Carter allowed the America-hating Islamic theocracy in Iran to sieze our nation's embassy in Tehran (siezing another nation's embassy is an act of war) without doing a damn thing about it!"


(YDB responds ~) "Carter did send forces in to rescue the hostages. The mission failed, true, but that's not the same as "not doing a damn thing about it". Besides, he did ultimately bring the hostages home safe. (Despite what I'm sure you believe, Reagan didn't do it in the five minutes or so he'd been president at the time.)"

Dump, I not only knew one of the two Iranian hostages from Ohio, but also spent some time talking with him a few months after his release at a ceremony honoring the eight men killed in the "failed rescue attempt." He told me some things that can't be repeated in a public forum like this.

Just a half dozen or so years later, I ended up with a roommate for more than a year that was not only active duty Air Force during the hostage crisis, but was also the son of the wing commander for the rescue mission. When I told him what I had heard back in '81, he cringed a little and said, "Don't call the TV stations but..." right before he explained how his dad had told the family when he returned from the mission that, with the exception of the pile-up on the runway, the mission had gone just as planned...to be a failure.

They actually wanted to simply scare the Iranians into splitting up the hostages to multiple locations and in easily managed small groups with smaller guard units, so we could send in Special Forces teams to extract them with a much higher success ratio than going full metal jacket against a small army of guards that would quickly open fire on ALL the hostages rather than risk losing any of them to the rescuers.

Of course Carter couldn't tell the nation that because...besides the fact we would be telling Iran we just tried a major fake-out on them...that's just too "Tom Clancy plot line" for most people to comprehend much less believe.

But, like YDB told you but in nicer terms, Carter DID do fucking something and it was actually FAR more than anything the "WW2 Celluloid Marine" did to get them free and home.

.

 

[JKendallDane]

Also, Dump, while you keep going off about the economy and calling Obama "a bumbling economic idiot" and such, I find very telling that this post exchange was 25 back-and-forths ago with you...and for some reason BB hasn't been seen in the thread since I posted the final reply to him, and you haven't DARED to mention those graphs either.

Care to tell us all why neither of you are willing to address them? Please do your best to make your response pertinent and on-point for a change.

(JKD said) "45's entire economic policy for that train has revolved around one thing ever since..."

(Dump fires back) "America currently has the lowest black & minority unemployment numbers EVER! Obama couldn't make it happen, but Trump COULD! Go figure!"

(JKD replies with) "Only if you choose to ignore that Obama set the waves in motion and Donnie-T has done little beyond managing to somehow hang on tight to the surfboard for 32 months.

Now...ya' wanna go back to the "Robber Barons in the private Pullman cars" point?"

What waves? Specifically......

LOL it's ok we all know you got nothing.

Nibble on these graphs from the St. Louis Fed as an appetizer and get back to me when you're ready for your soup and salad. We can also discuss your choice of main courses then.

https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/us-unemployment-05-17-600x527.png

https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/us-real-gdp-2007-2016-600x558.png

.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "Apples and oranges."

The easiest way to compare the Reagan & Obama presidencies is to look at their respective re-elections, and how they were each received by the voters who re-elected both men! These are NOT polling numbers - these are actual VOTES!

43,903,230 (50.75%) - 489 - Ronald Reagan's 1980 popular & electoral vote numbers
54,455,472 (58.77%) - 525 - Ronald Reagan's 1984 popular & electoral vote numbers
+ 10,552,242

69,499,428 (52.86%) - 365 - Barack Obama's 2008 popular & electoral vote numbers
65,918,507 (51.01%) - 332 - Barack Obama's 2012 popular & electoral vote numbers
- 3,580,921

These above election totals would indicate that President Reagan was MUCH MORE POPULAR after four years in office than was President Obama, who was surprisingly FAR LESS POPULAR! And then, in 1988, President Reagan campaign for Republican George H.W. Bush, who WON, while in 2016 President Obama campaigned alongside Democratic Party candidate Hillary Clinton, who shockingly LOST that election instead!

"Carter did send forces in to rescue the hostages. The mission failed..."

Jimmy Carter can best be described as "King Midas in reverse" - in that everything he touched turned to excrement! The British rock band The Hollies actually recorded the following song describing the Carter presidency:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjw-X1Sw-lI - ("King Midas in Reverse" by the Hollies - runs 3:10)

Actually, that song was released in 1967, ten-years before Jimmy Carter was inaugurated, but you get the general idea.

"Again, if you're going to argue that Reagan was the greatest, you've got no credibility on this. None."

THIS from the very same guy who argues that Jimmy Carter was a strong president, Bill Clinton was honest & treated women with dignity, and that Barack Obama understood economics! (Your OWN credibility is basically non-existent, YDB95!)

 

[YDB95]

YDB95 writes: "Apples and oranges."

The easiest way to compare the Reagan & Obama presidencies is to look at their respective re-elections, and how they were each received by the voters who re-elected both men! These are NOT polling numbers - these are actual VOTES!

And they have absolutely nothing to do with deficits (except inasmuch as voters don't really care about deficits, certainly not as much as they tend to say they do), or with patriotism.

Actually, that song was released in 1967, ten-years before Jimmy Carter was inaugurated, but you get the general idea.

I certainly do get the general idea: it is extremely unlikely that a British rock group would record a song about an American state legislator who was best known at that time for losing a primary for governor the previous year. Not to mention that Graham Nash is well known for his very liberal politics. Have you even listened to the song? It's about a love triangle, not politics.

"Again, if you're going to argue that Reagan was the greatest, you've got no credibility on this. None."

THIS from the very same guy who argues that Jimmy Carter was a strong president, Bill Clinton was honest & treated women with dignity, and that Barack Obama understood economics! (Your OWN credibility is basically non-existent, YDB95!)

I never said Clinton was honest or that he treated women with dignity. I simply said what he and Monica did wasn't an impeachable offence. Besides, the record shows Reagan ran up the biggest deficits in history at the time. If you're going to call him the greatest president of the 20th century, don't expect me to believe you give a shit about fiscal responsibility.

 

[JKendallDane]

Dump, you seem to have a thing for music. That's cool. I'd love to hear your take on this one from 1985...

Mike & the Mechanics ~ Silent Running (runs 4:01)

.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "And they have absolutely nothing to do with deficits (except inasmuch as voters don't really care about deficits)..."

The national-debt is a FAR GREATER concern than deficits, and when it comes to increasing our national-debt, Barack Obama was the all-time king!

"Have you even listened to the song? It's about a love triangle, not politics."

Yes, I KNOW that that song was NOT about Jimmy Carter, but the title ("King Midas in Reverse") certainly describes the Carter presidency, in that everything he touched turned into crap!

"I never said Clinton was honest or that he treated women with dignity. I simply said what he and Monica did wasn't an impeachable offence."

What Donald Trump has been accused of doing is even LESS IMPEACHBLE, but that won't stop the House Democrats - they're still incredibly upset about what happened back on November 8, 2016! But the U.S. Senate will IGNORE whatever bullsh*t the House Dems put forth - watch & see!

JKendallDane writes: "Dump, you seem to have a thing for music. That's cool. I'd love to hear your take on this one from 1985..."

Yes, Jay-Kendall - I remember that song! The mid-80's was the golden age for both MTV and music videos!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq7FKO5DlV0 - ("Land of Confusion" by Genesis - runs 5:28)

The only one I recall that actually "starred" President Reagan was "Land of Confusion" by Genesis - do you remember it?

 

[YDB95]

YDB95 writes: "And they have absolutely nothing to do with deficits (except inasmuch as voters don't really care about deficits)..."

The national-debt is a FAR GREATER concern than deficits, and when it comes to increasing our national-debt, Barack Obama was the all-time king!

There's a time and a place to worry about adding to the national debt. When we were facing the worst economic crisis in 80 years was not that time. And who were the last two presidents to sign balanced budgets? Clinton and LBJ, Dump. Think about that.

"Have you even listened to the song? It's about a love triangle, not politics."

Yes, I KNOW that that song was NOT about Jimmy Carter, but the title ("King Midas in Reverse") certainly describes the Carter presidency, in that everything he touched turned into crap!

I grant you he has been a much better ex-president than he was a president, but I don't see how he deserves that title. His big downfall was being honest with the American people when things were rough, and expecting us to actually believe in the whole personal-responsibility mantle. By and large, we don't.

"I never said Clinton was honest or that he treated women with dignity. I simply said what he and Monica did wasn't an impeachable offence."

What Donald Trump has been accused of doing is even LESS IMPEACHBLE,

Trying to blackmail a foreign leader into meddling with your opponent's campaign is "less impeachable" than an act of consensual sex with an adult? You're entitled to your opinion.

but that won't stop the House Democrats - they're still incredibly upset about what happened back on November 8, 2016! But the U.S. Senate will IGNORE whatever bullsh*t the House Dems put forth - watch & see!

I fear you may be right. But if it starts to look like Trump is a liability, the Senate Republicans will desert the sinking ship just like they did with Nixon.