US Line Of Succession

[jaF0]

Not that it will happen soon, or maybe ever, but I'm missing a couple of things here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

VP ascending to P is a given.

But I'm not clear on how the VP is filled. For example they mention Carl Albert replacing Agnew and later Ford:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#Next_in_line

But why? Once the Speaker takes VP, wouldn't they be gone from the House? Why would he have been able to go back to the House to ascend a second time?

When the Speaker moves up, the person can't serve both posts, so what happens in the House? Don't they elect a new Speaker?

If so, what happens if that VP (former Speaker) moves up or dies? Does the new Speaker move up?

The rest of the line would only come in to play under some sort of catastrophic event, so not really worthy of discussion.


Yeah, I could probably find a Wiki or something else, but the Liti version can be more colorful.

 

[jaF0]

I see this:

"Under the rules of the House, the speaker, "as soon as practicable after the election of the speaker and whenever appropriate thereafter", must deliver to the clerk of the House a confidential list of members who are designated to act as speaker in the case of a vacancy or physical inability of the speaker to perform their duties."

But also this:

"Additionally, the speaker is second in the presidential line of succession under the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, immediately after the vice president and before the president pro tempore of the Senate (who is followed by members of the president's Cabinet). Thus, if both the presidency and vice-presidency were vacant simultaneously, then the speaker would become acting president, after resigning from the House and as speaker."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives

In the two cases above, Albert moved up temporarily knowing that the VP would filled by other means, but that seems to contradict the Succession order which doesn't really discuss temporary except for illness or injury with full recovery expected.

 

[JKendallDane]

But I'm not clear on how the VP is filled. For example they mention Carl Albert replacing Agnew and later Ford:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#Next_in_line

But why? Once the Speaker takes VP, wouldn't they be gone from the House? Why would he have been able to go back to the House to ascend a second time?

When the Speaker moves up, the person can't serve both posts, so what happens in the House? Don't they elect a new Speaker?

If so, what happens if that VP (former Speaker) moves up or dies? Does the new Speaker move up?

You're making it much more complicated (by accident) than it really is.

Carl Albert only "moved up" in the line of succession until Nixon nominated Jerry Ford as VP and later when Ford nominated Nelson Rockefeller to be his VP and the Senate voted to confirm both of them as such. (in the latter case, becoming the first and only time in history that neither the president nor the VP had been elected to either of those offices.)

Albert was never the actual VP and fully retained his Speaker's position during the VP transition periods.

That make it clearer for you?

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[JKendallDane]

Basically, Albert was technically "one heartbeat away" from the Oval Office as Speaker of the House, but only so long as the Vice Presidency remained vacant.

Presidential nomination of new VP, confirmation by Senate, sworn in, and Albert was back to being third in line again.

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[jaF0]

But that's what I don't get. Why would anyone be able to nominate a new VP? Why isn't the Speaker's ascension 'permanent' under the conditions of Agnew and Ford?

Obviously neither was ill and expected to return to the VP position.

 

[JKendallDane]

But that's what I don't get. Why would anyone be able to nominate a new VP? Why isn't the Speaker's ascension 'permanent' under the conditions of Agnew and Ford?

Obviously neither was ill and expected to return to the VP position.

Again, you are making it more complicated than it is.

Albert didn't "move up" to the VP position (acting or otherwise)...he only became the immediate next in line in the succession order...but ONLY so long as the VP position remained empty.

Had Nixon or Ford dropped dead or been assassinated before Ford or Rockefeller had been nominated and confirmed by the Senate as respective VP's, Albert then, and only then, would ascend to the presidency without ever having been VP.

He was only the "placeholder" for the VP position with none of the pomp, circumstance, or legal duties and authority of the Vice Presidency.

Same scenario using today names: If Pence were to drop dead, Nancy Pelosi becomes first in line (under the succession act) to the Oval Office until tRump nominates and gets Senate confirmation for his choice of a new VP. Once, that occurs, she would go back to being second in line. She would never change titles, nor duties and authority, as she would remain as House Speaker through it all.

Same as if something happened to 45...Pence automatically moves into the Oval Office and Nancy is next in line UNTIL Pence nominates a new VP and gets them confirmed.

Any clearer now?

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[jaF0]

Again, you are making it more complicated than it is.

Albert didn't "move up" to the VP position (acting or otherwise)...he only became the immediate next in line in the succession order...but ONLY so long as the VP position remained empty.

Had Nixon or Ford dropped dead or been assassinated before Ford or Rockefeller had been nominated and confirmed by the Senate as respective VP's, Albert then, and only then, would ascend to the presidency without ever having been VP.

He was only the "placeholder" for the VP position with none of the pomp, circumstance, or legal duties and authority of the Vice Presidency.

Same scenario using today names: If Pence were to drop dead, Nancy Pelosi becomes first in line (under the succession act) to the Oval Office until tRump nominates and gets Senate confirmation for his choice of a new VP. Once, that occurs, she would go back to being second in line. She would never change titles, nor duties and authority, as she would remain as House Speaker through it all.

Same as if something happened to 45...Pence automatically moves into the Oval Office and Nancy is next in line UNTIL Pence nominates a new VP and gets them confirmed.

Any clearer now?

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No, because that shouldn't happen. The Speaker should become VP, no option for the P to nominate a new VP.

 

[KeithD]

No, because that shouldn't happen. The Speaker should become VP, no option for the P to nominate a new VP.

Where have you found a constitution provision for the Speaker to move into the VP position? I think that's the basis of your problem. I don't think such a provision exists.

 

[JKendallDane]

Where have you found a constitution provision for the Speaker to move into the VP position? I think that's the basis of your problem. I don't think such a provision exists.

It doesn't. But the topic of "Presidential Succession" HAS been addressed in the Constitution many times.

Presidential succession is referred to multiple times in the U.S. Constitution – Article II, Section 1, Clause 6, as well as the 12th Amendment, 20th Amendment, and 25th Amendment. The Article II succession clause authorizes Congress to provide for a line of succession beyond the vice president, which it has done on three occasions. The current Presidential Succession Act was adopted in 1947, and last revised in 2006.

Perhaps reading the entire entry from there will help clear the fog.

United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

As to your belief the House Speaker should just automatically ascend to an empty VP chair, just imagine the complete breakdown in government and total "Take no prisoners open warfare" we'd have today (beyond the mess that it has already devolved into) if Pence would suddenly die and newly-minted VP Nancy calls up Donnie to say "I'll be over for the morning intel briefing, want me to bring Egg McMuffins? We can even do lunch too and I'll fill you in on what I think of some of your more insane ideas." 45's response would probably be to slam down the phone and order his Secret Service detail to shoot the new VP if she dare set foot on White House property.

Like it or not, the Constitution spelled out the method to have the two people at the very top of of the government food chain at least be sitting in the same church instead of a daily reincarnation of The Crusades.

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[JackLuis]

How about this then:

Pence talks Trumpski into not objecting to Mike using the 25th amendment as the only way that Donnie can be pardoned, impeachment is avoided and Nancy never get close to becoming Pres?

Pence uses the 25th, then when Donnie is a private again, Mike has Bill Barr indite him and toss his ass in the slammer. ( Just to make it look good, Mike tells Donnie.) But after he is convicted and sentenced to 30 years for treason, Mike doesn't pardon him.

Barr and Pence get off scot free, Mitch still has control of the Senate and the Rethug's are still in charge. Mike picks Huckabee as VP, as he is a True Believer and a "man of God."

Due to the recent fucktussle, Mike cancels the 2020 election disbands Congress!

 

[KeithD]

It doesn't. But the topic of "Presidential Succession" HAS been addressed in the Constitution many times.



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Yes, but JaFO seems to be hanging everything on the assumption that the Speaker moves up to VP by right. I don't think there's any such provision for that (which is all I addressed in my post).

 

[KeithD]

How about this then:

Pence talks Trumpski into not objecting to Mike using the 25th amendment as the only way that Donnie can be pardoned

But Donald is starkers crazy. He will never understand any scenario where he himself would need to be pardoned. It just isn't in his brain cells.

And Pence doesn't have the guts to do a tenth of the illegal shit Trump is doing. If Trump gets rooted out, Pence is going to hunker down and do practically nothing (including running for president) before the next election. He doesn't have the guts for it.

 

[JKendallDane]

And Pence doesn't have the guts to do a tenth of the illegal shit Trump is doing. If Trump gets rooted out, Pence is going to hunker down and do practically nothing (including running for president) before the next election. He doesn't have the guts for it.

I really believe Pence was the ONLY person that was MORE shocked than 45 at the results back in 2016. Remember, just a few short weeks before he was seriously considering flipping 45 the bird and walking off into the sunset over the "pussy-grabber" tape.

Once the "win" sunk in, he just assumed the reign of the Orange Fiasco couldn't possibly last more and a year and change and figured he could put up with anything and ascend to the throne eventually by death, default, or impeachment. He could achieve his dream of living in White House with "Mother" and changing America into his twisted brand of theocracy..and that was never going to happen in any other way . without being the VP to a complete jackass.

I do see Pence running next year should 45 stroke out or be successfully impeached and shown the back door. He'll believe he has the evilangelicals 101% sown up, but that won't get him elected...and like you said, he isn't a big enough crook and prick to pump up the "angry, screaming, ammosexual, white supremacist" base like 45 does. So, yes, I can see him running, but ending up like Ford as a "half-termer" impossibly stained by his predecessor.

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