Talking SF until everyone’s eyes glaze over

[eroticstoryspinner]

I like Stephenson but endings are not his strength. I thought the Baroque Cycle just sort of fizzled out after over 1500 pages and three volumes, and I didn't care for the ending of the Diamond Age, either.

That is an interesting observation. Looking back on it even Snow Crash was rushed. I have often wondered why not one pitched a fit that KT was sexually active at 14-15

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

This thread also got me thinking about some superb short sci-fi stories. In my original Christmas bag of books was an anthology called "Tomorrow, The Stars," which I still own decades later. I have been thumbing through it tonight and enjoying some old favorites - Vonnegut's "The Barnhouse Effect," the creepy "Absalom" by Henry Kuttner, "Survival Ship" by Judith Merril with its lovely twist at the end. The genre really gave us some wonderful stories - "Nightfall," as others have pointed out, and "The Ugly Little Boy" (which still touches my heart), "If This Goes On -" by Heinlein...
I could go on and on.

Sadly shorts have very little market today. Even Amazon, it hard to both make coin and publish short stories.

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

Math logic: 1+1=3 for large enough values of 1. That tests as "maybe true," too.
_____

Alas, how could I neglect Zenna Henderson? Or Judith Merril (a Kornbluth collaborator), Leigh Brackett, and (later) Kage Baker, Lois McMaster Bujold, C. J. Cherryh?

James White and Alan Nourse (MDs) wrote fine medical SF (but forget Robin Cook and Michael Crichton); and we possess Nourse's classic pocket guide to outdoors medicine. Don't setup camp without it.
_____

Hey, another sub-theme: Which SF&F writers have impacted the outside world beside inspiring remunerative films or religions?

NASA engineers copied Doc Smith's spaceship controls. Heinlein invented waldoes and waterbeds and inspired too much libertarian crud. Clarke posited geosynchronous satellites. Vernor Vinge predicted cyberspace, the singularity, ubiquitous surveillance, and a walking library building (not yet constructed.)

Some working scientists wrote SciFi. JBS Haldane premiered "primordial soup" for evolution. Leo Szilard designed A-bombs. Norbert Weiner invented cybernetics. Too bad Admiral Grace Hopper, Marie Curie, and Ada, Lady Lovelace didn't write speculative fiction, hey?

There are a lot of working scientists who ARE writing SF today. Stephanie Osborn. Dave Freer (well he is retired) Michael A. Rothman, Travis Taylor, just to name a few

 

[Hypoxia]

There are a lot of working scientists who ARE writing SF today. Stephanie Osborn. Dave Freer (well he is retired) Michael A. Rothman, Travis Taylor, just to name a few

Working scientists have written SF (or been plagiarized) for quite awhile. I was wondering about science-oid world-shakers, maybe from Capek defining robots, Fritz Lang's blastoff countdown, and Carl Sagan, to Star Trek designers giving us flip fones et al. Alas, Robert Shockley's racist writing can't be called SciFi.

My question is, which writers of SF have or will most change the world? I might have to go with Doc Smith; his space operas drove western rocketry. But damn that Leo Szilard!

Didn't Admiral Grace Hopper leave a concealed notebook of erotic SF vignettes?

 

[SimonDoom]

My question is, which writers of SF have or will most change the world? I might have to go with Doc Smith; his space operas drove western rocketry. But damn that Leo Szilard!

William Gibson is one. He coined the terms cyberspace and matrix. His book Neuromancer greatly influenced cyberpunk culture and shaped the way we look at cyberspace and virtual reality. It's possible his book shaped the development of the Internet and cyberspace, too.

 

[ChloeTzang]

William Gibson is one. He coined the terms cyberspace and matrix. His book Neuromancer greatly influenced cyberpunk culture and shaped the way we look at cyberspace and virtual reality. It's possible his book shaped the development of the Internet and cyberspace, too.

How about Isaac Asimov? Was he influential in any way with his robot and AI novels? EE Doc Smith influenced rocketry? I had no idea.

 

[ElectricBlue]

How about Isaac Asimov? Was he influential in any way with his robot and AI novels? EE Doc Smith influenced rocketry? I had no idea.

Influential with the literature but not the science, I'd say.

Alan Turing published his computing theories (the foundation of current computing) in the early nineteen-forties, and the first computers were built a) to decode Enigma and b) to design the atomic bomb some years before Asimov wrote his robot stories.

Similarly, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky derived the “Formula of Aviation”, establishing the relationship between the speed of a rocket at any moment, its specific impulse fuel, and the mass of a rocket in 1896, long before EE Doc Smith was writing.

The science generally precedes the fiction, when it comes to science-fiction, I reckon. I can't think of many sci-fi tropes where the idea preceded the science. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein because vivisectionists were fun doctors already - and somebody was already messing about with batteries.

 

[SimonDoom]

Influential with the literature but not the science, I'd say.

Alan Turing published his computing theories (the foundation of current computing) in the early nineteen-forties, and the first computers were built a) to decode Enigma and b) to design the atomic bomb some years before Asimov wrote his robot stories.

Similarly, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky derived the “Formula of Aviation”, establishing the relationship between the speed of a rocket at any moment, its specific impulse fuel, and the mass of a rocket in 1896, long before EE Doc Smith was writing.

The science generally precedes the fiction, when it comes to science-fiction, I reckon. I can't think of many sci-fi tropes where the idea preceded the science. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein because vivisectionists were fun doctors already - and somebody was already messing about with batteries.

I generally agree with you about the "science before fiction" principle, but I'm less certain whether it applies to the development of the Internet and cyberspace, which is why I mentioned Gibson. The Internet and tech industry in general are in some ways as much, or more, driven by software and content as they are by hardware. The culture may drive the science, sometimes in ways that may be hard to see or document. So a pioneer in the culture of the Internet, like Gibson, may ultimately have a profound impact on the science that's driven by the culture.

Generally speaking, futurists, whether they're fiction writers or others, get most things wrong. In the 60s people figured we'd have moon colonies and flying cars by now, and we're not even close to that. But nobody foresaw the Internet and smart phones -- hand held computers, basically. Even Gibson in his 80s books Neuromancer didn't foresee cell phones.

 

[Bramblethorn]

But nobody foresaw the Internet and smart phones -- hand held computers, basically. Even Gibson in his 80s books Neuromancer didn't foresee cell phones.

Clarke, "Imperial Earth" (1976). Possibly Niven and Pournelle a couple of years before that.

 

[Polyacrylate]

Any love for David Brin, Physics Professor turned almost-hard sci-fi writer?

Startide Rising, about a renegade starship crewed by dolphins, in hiding from hostile forces, would be B or C grade schlock in lesser hands. It was a shame that it wasn't followed up as well as it could have been.

Earth, written in the late 80s or early 90s, I believe, was another that I really liked, a near future story in which a microscopic black hole is used as an experimental energy source and is then lost. It had a ton of predictions about the future, with things comparable to social media, Wikipedia, and climate refugees featuring prominently.

And best sci-fi of all time? The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, of course.

 

[MetaBob]

Any love for David Brin, Physics Professor turned almost-hard sci-fi writer?

I mentioned him in my first short list of authors on this thread. I first stumbled across his stuff in an SF magazine, Analog, F&SF, or Isaac Asimov's, where he'd serialized The Postman, which I found very compelling and well-written indeed. Then Startide Rising, then The Uplift War, then a bunch of other stuff, though perhaps with the exception of Glory Season, which challenged this then-young man's world-view in a lasting way, I still think those first few exposures to his writing were the best.

Yes, Kevin Costner later made The Postman into a kinda schlocky film (with a cameo by Tom Petty!), but even that had merit from its wonderful source material.

Edit: David Brin's The Postman novella (the first third of what would later become his novel of the same name) first appeared in Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine, November 1982 issue, but this was not, in fact, my first exposure to his writing ... he published The Loom of Thessaly, which I also remember being profoundly impressed by, in that same magazine's November 23, 1981 issue. I still have the print copies. Sundiver (a prequel of sorts to Startide Rising) was published even earlier, but I didn't come across it until later.

 

[Javahead]

How about Isaac Asimov? Was he influential in any way with his robot and AI novels? EE Doc Smith influenced rocketry? I had no idea.

I’d argue that Asimov’s stories aroused interest, but his enormous output of articles explaining scientific topics at an approachable level did far more to spread understanding of and enthusiasm for science. My high school and college libraries had literally dozens of collections of his nonfiction works - he’s only second to Heinlein in my interest in becoming an engineer. And I recall reading somewhere that almost everyone involved in the space program was a Heinlein fan.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I generally agree with you about the "science before fiction" principle, but I'm less certain whether it applies to the development of the Internet and cyberspace, which is why I mentioned Gibson. The Internet and tech industry in general are in some ways as much, or more, driven by software and content as they are by hardware. The culture may drive the science, sometimes in ways that may be hard to see or document. So a pioneer in the culture of the Internet, like Gibson, may ultimately have a profound impact on the science that's driven by the culture.

Generally speaking, futurists, whether they're fiction writers or others, get most things wrong. In the 60s people figured we'd have moon colonies and flying cars by now, and we're not even close to that. But nobody foresaw the Internet and smart phones -- hand held computers, basically. Even Gibson in his 80s books Neuromancer didn't foresee cell phones.

Oh yes. I remember a Heinlein story where they do the math for starships with slide rules and I had to ask my Dad what they were. He laughed.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Any love for David Brin, Physics Professor turned almost-hard sci-fi writer?

Startide Rising, about a renegade starship crewed by dolphins, in hiding from hostile forces, would be B or C grade schlock in lesser hands. It was a shame that it wasn't followed up as well as it could have been.

Earth, written in the late 80s or early 90s, I believe, was another that I really liked, a near future story in which a microscopic black hole is used as an experimental energy source and is then lost. It had a ton of predictions about the future, with things comparable to social media, Wikipedia, and climate refugees featuring prominently.

And best sci-fi of all time? The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, of course.

I love Startide Rising. His other books not so much.

Now who else is a Tom Kratman fan? The Carreraverse!

And the Man-Kzin Wars universe. I love dem puddy-tats. Eeeeek

And the Draka. The most dystopian series ever.....

 

[Polyacrylate]

I mentioned him in my first short list of authors on this thread. I first stumbled across his stuff in an SF magazine, Analog, F&SF, or Isaac Asimov's SF Magazine, where he'd serialized The Postman, which I found very compelling and well-written indeed. Then Startide Rising, then The Uplift War, then a bunch of other stuff, though perhaps with the exception of Glory Season, which was challenging to a young man's world-view, I still think those first few exposures to his writing were the best.

Yes, Kevin Costner later made The Postman into a kinda schlocky film (with a cameo by Tom Petty!), but even that had merit from its wonderful source material.

I read Glory Season as a young teenager in the mid 90s, perhaps when I was 13-14. I hadn't really thought about some of the feminist and anti-feminist themes the book presented prior to reading it, and it was good food for thought. I recall liking the book overall, though only in broad strokes. I wonder if it would hold up to a reading as an adult...

 

[Javahead]

Oh yes. I remember a Heinlein story where they do the math for starships with slide rules and I had to ask my Dad what they were. He laughed.

I have several. Though they were already obsolete by the time I was in High School, my first year college Chemistry professor used one for all his calculations. He was as fast as students using calculators, and claimed (correctly) that it had more then enough digits of accuracy for any work we did in the first year Chem lab.

He would also mark down any lab results by a letter grade if they slowed more than 3 digits of precision, along with a mini rant about the difference between accuracy and “precision”

 

[SimonDoom]

Clarke, "Imperial Earth" (1976). Possibly Niven and Pournelle a couple of years before that.

You've piqued my curiosity. I will have to look those up. I wasn't aware of them.

 

[SimonDoom]

Subtopic: What's the best movie adaptation of a classic science fiction story? When I think about it, there are surprisingly many great science fiction stories that have NOT been made into good movies.

"Who Goes There?" is a great early alien invasion/horror tale that was turned into the 50s classic The Thing From Another World in the early 50s, and remade by John Carpenter as The Thing in 1982. Both solid sci fi horror films for their time.

I guess the most obvious answer would be 2001:A Space Odyssey, one of the most critically acclaimed film adaptations of a science fiction novel ever made. I first saw it when I was fairly young, not having read the novel, and I had no idea what the ending was about.

What great science fiction story would you LIKE to see turned into a movie?

I think there's a ton of potential to adapt Frederic Brown's classic story Arena into a movie. Star Trek fans may recall it as the basis for the story and title of the Star Trek episode where Kirk and the Gorn must fight each other to the death to decide which combatant's species will be wiped out. It's a great concept for a movie.

I'm surprised no one has made Snow Crash into a movie yet.

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

I generally agree with you about the "science before fiction" principle, but I'm less certain whether it applies to the development of the Internet and cyberspace, which is why I mentioned Gibson. The Internet and tech industry in general are in some ways as much, or more, driven by software and content as they are by hardware. The culture may drive the science, sometimes in ways that may be hard to see or document. So a pioneer in the culture of the Internet, like Gibson, may ultimately have a profound impact on the science that's driven by the culture.

Generally speaking, futurists, whether they're fiction writers or others, get most things wrong. In the 60s people figured we'd have moon colonies and flying cars by now, and we're not even close to that. But nobody foresaw the Internet and smart phones -- hand held computers, basically. Even Gibson in his 80s books Neuromancer didn't foresee cell phones.

Pournelle, and RAH before him Incorporated cell phone/PDA devices in several stories. You tend to see that in stores written late 50s on when integrated circuits were developed. I tend to agree with you about Gibson.

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

Subtopic: What's the best movie adaptation of a classic science fiction story? When I think about it, there are surprisingly many great science fiction stories that have NOT been made into good movies.


I'm surprised no one has made Snow Crash into a movie yet.

I would like to see Snow Crash made into a movie. Would have to be carefully done.

What is your gate for "classic SF"? Personally, I would like to see Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I would also like to see John Ringo's Black Tide Rising series done well. Same for Larry Corriea's MHI novels.

 

[ChloeTzang]

What great science fiction story would you LIKE to see turned into a movie?.

The Mote in Gods Eye - that’d be amazing if it was done well
A remake of Starship Troopers, the way Heinlein wrote it.
The John Ringo zombie series - that’d be just outstandingly orgasmically cool
C J Cherryh’s “Downbelow Station”

 

[bushyTrail]

The Mote in Gods Eye - that’d be amazing if it was done well

Oh, I love that book!
"A Fire Upon the Deep" by Vernor Vinge would also be an awesome first contact story to adapt.

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

I love Startide Rising. His other books not so much.

Now who else is a Tom Kratman fan? The Carreraverse!

And the Man-Kzin Wars universe. I love dem puddy-tats. Eeeeek

And the Draka. The most dystopian series ever.....

Love the COL! As for Brin. His later stuff is just meh

 

[Zeb_Carter]

What great science fiction story would you LIKE to see turned into a movie?

First: As Chloe said... Star Ship Troopers the way it was written.

Two: Gordon R. Dickson's Dorsai series.

C: David Drake's Hammer's Slammers series.

So many others it's hard to count them.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Oh yes. I remember a Heinlein story where they do the math for starships with slide rules and I had to ask my Dad what they were. He laughed.

And I was born long before calculators and learned how to us a slide rule. My dad used them all the time... he was a draftsman, no computers back then either, pencil, paper and slide rule along with assorted straight edges and french curves.