Talking SF until everyone’s eyes glaze over

[Bramblethorn]

And before Mr. Doom claims these are fantasies instead of SciFi, at the time they were written, clock-work machinery and clock makers (Herr Drosselmeyer in The Nutcracker was a clock maker) were the height of science, and Coppelia went so far as to suggest that Dr. Coppelius could animate his clockwork doll (made in the image of a dead lover) with the soul of a living girl.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk

I wonder whether things like "Gulliver's Travels" might also be considered sci-fi, by the standards of the day.

 

[NotWise]

I wonder whether things like "Gulliver's Travels" might also be considered sci-fi, by the standards of the day.

I think Gulliver's Travels was intended from the outset to be imaginative social satire without a science bent as science existed at the time. It also happens to be a great children's story.

 

[SimonDoom]

What was your first introduction to Sci Fi literature? For me I think it was reading John Christopher's Tripod trilogy, a young adult sci fi series. The next was reading the complete works of H.G. Wells.

 

[Javahead]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk

I wonder whether things like "Gulliver's Travels" might also be considered sci-fi, by the standards of the day.

Wow - I saw this thread start out this morning, but didn't have time to join in. It's really grown. I'm not certain that "Gulliver's Travels" qualifies as SF, even by the standards of it's day. Because - like many of Gilbert and Sullivan's works - it was thinly-disguised political commentary. I've read that Lilliput sequences in particular were very thinly veiled critiques of the court of George I.

Of course, there's nothing barring a good SF book from having a fair amount of social or political commentary (much of Heinlein, for instance!), but Swift's characters could often be mapped one-to-one to court figures of his day.

FWIW, I cut my SF teeth on Heinlein and Asimov, since both were in my local library. Along with Asimov's column collections. I must say that Heinlein and Asimov's collections hold up much better on re-reading then much of Asimov's early fiction - in fact, I could make a case that his "Black Widower" mystery shorts written many years later were his best stories in terms of characterization.

On the other hand, I can re-read Doc Smith's purple prose with great pleasure even today, so what do I know?

 

[NotWise]

What was your first introduction to Sci Fi literature? For me I think it was reading John Christopher's Tripod trilogy, a young adult sci fi series. The next was reading the complete works of H.G. Wells.

I'm not really sure. The Disney version of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea was part of it.

At the time I started reading (circa 1960) Science Fiction was ingrained in popular culture. One of the earliest novels I remember was a YA (or children's) time travel story named "Danger, Dinosaurs." I have no idea who wrote it, and it may have dated from the 1930's.

 

[vanmyers86]

What was your first introduction to Sci Fi literature? For me I think it was reading John Christopher's Tripod trilogy, a young adult sci fi series.

I loved that trilogy!

Madeleine L'Engle's Wrinkle in Time books were probably my introduction to written sci-fi (I watched Star Trek reruns as a little kid, and the Apollo and space shuttle missions captured my imagination, so it seemed natural to look for space travel stories at the school library. I think a librarian found those for me). Although I seem to recall one of Walter Farley's Black Stallion books featured aliens, so that may have predated L'Engle for me. Long, long time ago.

Thanks for starting this thread, Chloe. It's a pleasure to see what others have read in a genre that gave me so much delightful escape when I was younger.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Wow - I saw this thread start out this morning, but didn't have time to join in. It's really grown. I'm not certain that "Gulliver's Travels" qualifies as SF, even by the standards of it's day. Because - like many of Gilbert and Sullivan's works - it was thinly-disguised political commentary. I've read that Lilliput sequences in particular were very thinly veiled critiques of the court of George I.

Of course, there's nothing barring a good SF book from having a fair amount of social or political commentary (much of Heinlein, for instance!), but Swift's characters could often be mapped one-to-one to court figures of his day.

It's not just that SF often happens to have social/political commentary, it's that it offers a handy device for introducing that commentary: "let me tell you about this other planet where they do things differently, gosh, doesn't that make you think about how we do it on Earth?" Whether that's LeGuin using Gethen to make readers think about how sex and gender affect our culture, or Heinlein using Mars to explore taboos against cannibalism and the shortage of nubile women eager to sleep with aging authors^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W, or any of many others.

To me, Gulliver's Travels seems to be doing much the same thing within the technological knowledge of its day. Back before the world was fully mapped, a sea voyage was the obvious way to "explore strange new worlds" and boldly go etc. etc. (Indeed, one episode of Star Trek adapted Shakespeare's "The Tempest" to set it on a distant planet, as of course did "Forbidden Planet".)

Gulliver's visit to Laputa, in particular, is explicitly about scientists developing weird and wonderful (but highly impractical) technology.

 

[Hypoxia]

My earliest SciFi-y exposure? Probably creature films on independent (i.e. cheap) Los Angeles TV stations from the mid-1950s on, like THE CRAWLING EYE and INVADERS FROM MARS and FORBIDDEN PLANET and the FRANKENSTEINs, of course. Then EC comics, and worse. And original Tom Swift hardcovers Dad had kept. Then 'Andre' Norton, and better. Swift, Verne, and Wells, sure. Lovecraft came later. Whew.

Skeletal rocket-ship climbing structures infested local parks. Those enticed young me. SF was sort of real-life in my town with high-tech colleges and guided missile factories nearby, just as likely to be nuked as the local USAF bases, so constant duck-and-cover drills imprinted mushroom clouds onto young minds. How SciFi-y are fallout shelters?

A rule: The "Golden Age" of any literature is your early adolescence.

 

[NoJo]

Loving this thread, not least because I'm getting constant reminders of books and authors I'd all but forgotten!

AH yes, "A wrinkle in time" was very influential on me -- as were the complete HG Wells stories.

As a teenager, I went through a period where I thought I needed to become a bit more sophisticated and "grown-up" in my reading, and tried to read stuff like James Joyce, Henry Miller and John Barth. But now in my sixties I'm rereading old Marvel Comics and 60's SF.

The most recent "Science Fiction" that really got me excited was the Rick and Morty series , which for me is sheer genius. Can't wait till November.

 

[SimonDoom]

My earliest SciFi-y exposure? Probably creature films on independent (i.e. cheap) Los Angeles TV stations from the mid-1950s on, like THE CRAWLING EYE and INVADERS FROM MARS and FORBIDDEN PLANET and the FRANKENSTEINs, of course. Then EC comics, and worse. And original Tom Swift hardcovers Dad had kept. Then 'Andre' Norton, and better. Swift, Verne, and Wells, sure. Lovecraft came later. Whew.

.

My earliest exposure to SciFi was much the same -- a heavy diet of low budget 50s-era Sci Fi films before Star Wars came out and changed everything. I loved Godzilla movies, and all the alien invasion and giant bug movies from the 50s -- Them, Tarantula, the Thing, Beast from 20,000 Fathoms etc. I remember The Crawling Eye. It sounds preposterous now but at the time it seemed pretty darn scary.

And Star Trek reruns, of course. I'm sure I've seen every single Star Trek episode at least a two or three times, and some of them more than that.

 

[R. Richard]

I found this book, some years back, in the dusty back shelves if a library.

The Dying Earth by Jack Vance

 

[R. Richard]

I would like to point out that Gulliver's Travels is not scifi, but rather a vicious political parody that was originally published anonymously

 

[Javahead]

I would like to point out that Gulliver's Travels is not scifi, but rather a vicious political parody that was originally published anonymously

I believe I made the same point. Wasn’t Swift essentially exiled from London in later years?

 

[Hypoxia]

As mentioned, SF (science-, speculative-, space-, or spooky-fiction), as well as other genres, have covered vicious political-social-religious satire for quite awhile. Cf Dante's INFERNO. Every fantastic bit works as metaphor for human frailty and obscenity. Every alien-demon-mutant-angel-robot-supergal-wizard-slave-foreigner-cabal-empire-etc is an entity or group targeted for the creator's attention.

Current rulers treat human refugees as inhuman parasites, weevils, germs. I've not looked at alt.right SF; I know lefty literature may show owners-rulers as such. I admit some of my LIT pieces are political but I omit actual names. I'm not yet tempted to write obvious attack satire pr0n... don't know if I have the gutz. Our reality is almost beyond satire. But I digress.

Don't forget: prominent (or less so) SF writers worked for money. Or they were nutz, like Lovecraft. But to make their livings, they told tales people would buy. Literature always reflects the moods and economy of its time. By 'moods' I mean fetishes, fears, longings, greeds. Fear and greed rule.

 

[TxRad]

I have two words: Rod Serling.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I loved that trilogy!

Madeleine L'Engle's Wrinkle in Time books were probably my introduction to written sci-fi (I watched Star Trek reruns as a little kid, and the Apollo and space shuttle missions captured my imagination, so it seemed natural to look for space travel stories at the school library. I think a librarian found those for me). Although I seem to recall one of Walter Farley's Black Stallion books featured aliens, so that may have predated L'Engle for me. Long, long time ago.

Thanks for starting this thread, Chloe. It's a pleasure to see what others have read in a genre that gave me so much delightful escape when I was younger.

Oh you’re welcome, and omg you reminded me of that John Christopher trilogy. Our library had him and Heinlein and Tolkien and a few others including AWrinkle in Time and that was the kids SF section. I read “Time for the Stars” by Heinlein and I was hooked, and then I discovered one of my grandads had quite a few SF books tucked away and he told me to help myself - Day of the Triffids, The Kraken Wakes and The Death of Grass by John Wyndham, as well as “Stranger in a Strange Land” and that was fascinating reading for a 10 yr old. Read every Heinlein book I could lay my hands on after that, and my grandad had a lot of Baen Books SF. David Drake, Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle. That whole Motie universe had me hooked. And then SM Stirling and the Draka. Wow I read Marching though Georgia without stopping. Then went on to read the series. One of those moments in one’s life one always remembers. I’m still addicted to the Baen Books website- browse it religiously for new titles. Loved Marion Zimmer Bradley as well, her Darkover books are borderline SF but I do love them.

Baen is definitely by far and away my favourite SF publisher.

 

[acerbedingfield]

[removed]

 

[Bramblethorn]

I would like to point out that Gulliver's Travels is not scifi, but rather a vicious political parody that was originally published anonymously

Those things are not in any way mutually exclusive.

 

[ChloeTzang]

But cant you realize that when large groups of people leave a country or region like say Saudi Arabia or the middle east, then go to a different country claiming freedom of religion. And then FORCE the new country to allow them to establish sharia law and sharia court system in the new country that the new "immagrants and refugees" ARE nothing more then unwanted vermin?

A south American cartel member is caught jumping the border with a whore and a stolen baby, claims family status and gets to stay. Then kills the whore and sells the baby to someone else in Tijuana, don't you realize they are vermin?

Let’s stay away from current politics please. There’s another board for that.

 

[Hypoxia]

<bigoted rants>

Take it to the GB.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Take it to the GB.

Let’s just stay away from current politics all round. Altho a lot of SF is commentary in one form or another. Tom Kratman springs to mind.
.

 

[Javahead]

Let’s just stay away from current politics all round. Altho a lot of SF is commentary in one form or another. Tom Kratman springs to mind.
.

Ayup. Social commentary in SF - in any form of literature, really - works best when it’s done as a leavening, not the main theme of the story.

Jerry Pournelle, Robert Heinlein, Spider Robinson, Eric Flint ... off the top of my head, they’re all “political” a great deal of the time, but they don’t bludgeon you with it. So I may disagree strenuously with Flint’s politics, for example, but can read his stories with enjoyment.

Any Rand, on the other hand, can’t be easily read except as political commentary.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Jerry Pournelle, Robert Heinlein, Spider Robinson, Eric Flint ... off the top of my head, they’re all “political” a great deal of the time, but they don’t bludgeon you with it.

Heinlein has been known to get a wee bit bludgeony.

 

[JamesMiehoff]

Yikes. I was intrigued by the title and stayed for the memories.

I am almost embarrassed to say that while reading the list to this point, there was only one novel mentioned that I haven't read. I am too lazy to go back and find it at the moment.

I was (and still am) a voracious reader. I prefer real books with real paper to Kindles, Nooks and any other e-reader. Before anyone objects, I have tried them. I have a box full of Kindles, Nooks and some off brand knockoffs. Both black and white and color versions. I just love the sensory overload of books. The smell, the texture, the sound when you flip a page. Given sufficient time, I can probably dig a copy of most of those books named in this thread out of my library, the storage room or one of the myriad of boxes in the garage.

I cut my teeth on Jules Verne. His were some of the few science fiction books in my elementary school (I was banished to the library frequently when my teachers realized there was nothing they could teach me). I found Heinlein the summer before third grade and read his entire published output. A library card was a dangerous thing for me. Clarke and Asimov followed. And then I branched out. Van Vogt followed. 'Slan', I believe was the first followed by 'The Weapon Shops of Isher' and the 'Null-A' books. After that, it is hard to remember as they all blur together.

Even today, when we go to a book store, my wife always knows where to find me.

I know I should probably collect up some of my lesser read books and take them down to the used book store, but it hard getting rid of one's children. The last time we moved, the PODS guy had to put an extra chain on because he was afraid it might break. When he asked what was so heavy we said "books" and he shook his head.

I would love to see some of you that love the old "hard" science fiction knock out a few "real" science fiction stories. Not these "alien with 12 orifices" spankfests that seem to dominate the SF category.

Or better yet, I nominate Ms. Chloe to put together a Hard Core Science Fiction contest.

James

 

[Hypoxia]

I would love to see some of you that love the old "hard" science fiction knock out a few "real" science fiction stories. Not these "alien with 12 orifices" spankfests that seem to dominate the SF category.

Ratz, can't paste links from this fone -- but click my .sig's list for A FALL OF STARDUST, aimed at a 1960-ish WORLDS OF IF-ish audience, but pr0n, sure. Aliens beware!

I've not written much of aliens because they're too easy, like fantasy critters and mind-control. I prefer mad science nearby, like A MATTER OF TIME (more episodes may follow) and BRIDE OF KONG. Any multi-orifice ETs will likely be in satires, maybe representing humans worthy of targeting. Names will be disguised but y'all can guess, hey?

I'll admit to slacking on LIT SciFi reads. Are hyper-genitalized aliens mandatory?