Talking SF until everyone’s eyes glaze over

[Hypoxia]

“Dune” - Frank Herbert

Never grabbed me.

“The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” - Robert Heinlein

Based on a totally bogus notion. Sending prisoners to Luna is rather less cost-effective than 1) an Antarctic prison colony, 2) remote gulags, or 3) mass executions. Who thinks Terran nations would go to the expense? Now, with cheap time travel... I recall SilverBob's HAWKSBILL STATION of politicals exiled back a few aeons. Let them exercise libertarian fantasies with mammoths or T-Rex.

Ever notice that Heinlein's novels are mostly plotless strings of incidents?

Hal Clement! Omg I love “Mission of Gravity.”

Superb, a great rendition of ALIEN-ness!

Meanwhile, the 'S' in 'SF' can represent Science or Speculative or Satanic (cf. Clive Barker) or just Space. Many sub-genres spewed their own great works. Mary (Andre) Norton, Chip Delaney, Ursula LeGuin, Vernor and Joan Vinge, Niven+Pournelle's fascist rants, and much more at my fringes of memory.

All ask, "What if?" That's the soul of any SF.

 

[ishtat]

I loved some of John Boyd’s books and disliked others almost as much, and sometimes he could even be good and awful on the same page.

And did anyone ever write a better short story than “ Nightfall?”

 

[R. Richard]

[QUOTE
Who has a nomination for all-time top sci-fi novels?[/QUOTE]

The Man Who Counts by Poul Anderson.

 

[NoJo]

My All-time two top SF novels are both early Kurt Vonnegut (I'm surprised he's not been mentioned in this thread yet):

"The Sirens of Titan", followed by "Cat's Cradle."

Crap though it is, I still get a lot of pleasure re-reading Niven's "Ringworld". which won the Hugo and Nebula awards on its release (though I think Greg Bear did the "Big Dumb Object" subgenre better with "Eon" fifteen years later).

 

[SimonDoom]

My All-time two top SF novels are both early Kurt Vonnegut (I'm surprised he's not been mentioned in this thread yet):

"The Sirens of Titan", followed by "Cat's Cradle."

.

Loved Cat's Cradle. The first Vonnegut novel I read and my all time favorite of his.

 

[SimonDoom]

“Dune” - Frank Herbert

I think Dune was a brilliant work of world-building, but I'm less sure about whether I'd call it science fiction. I think of it as more fantasy than science fiction, like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. In a lot of ways it's anti-science/pro-mysticism. The first novel is an incredible read, IMO. The ones after that . . . not so much.

As far as favorite novels . . . I think Rendezvous with Rama was wonderfully conceived and executed. It's a very interesting imagining of what an alien encounter would be without being at all Hollywood.

A recent novel I liked was Andy Weir's The Martian. It's science fiction in an admirable way, in that the author spent a great deal of time trying to get the science right, or nearly right, and in that it played a compelling and reasonably accurate role in the plot of the story. It's very suspenseful. Weir makes it believable.

 

[ChloeTzang]

My heroes are William Gibson and Michael Stackpole. Cyberpunk and giant stompy robots. Also, I see your Heinlein, Chloe dearest and raise you some Perry Rhodan. (who is not an author but the hero in a loooooooong series of sci-fi stories. The German version of pulp magazines.) Nerdy enough?

Phillip Jose Farmer. River world
Larry Niven. Ringworld. The Mote in Gods Eye.
Phillip K Dick. The Main in the High Castle.

The Retief series by Keith Laumer
Fritz Leiber

 

[ChloeTzang]

I think Dune was a brilliant work of world-building, but I'm less sure about whether I'd call it science fiction. I think of it as more fantasy than science fiction, like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. In a lot of ways it's anti-science/pro-mysticism. The first novel is an incredible read, IMO. The ones after that . . . not so much.

As far as favorite novels . . . I think Rendezvous with Rama was wonderfully conceived and executed. It's a very interesting imagining of what an alien encounter would be without being at all Hollywood.

A recent novel I liked was Andy Weir's The Martian. It's science fiction in an admirable way, in that the author spent a great deal of time trying to get the science right, or nearly right, and in that it played a compelling and reasonably accurate role in the plot of the story. It's very suspenseful. Weir makes it believable.

The Martian was great. Loved the movie too. It Dune, that was SF. Saying it’s not is narrowing the definition down too tightly.

 

[ChloeTzang]

[QUOTE
Who has a nomination for all-time top sci-fi novels?

The Man Who Counts by Poul Anderson.[/QUOTE]

Pour Anderson and all the Polseotechnic League stories. Van Rijn is great!

 

[MetaBob]

Loved Cat's Cradle. The first Vonnegut novel I read and my all time favorite of his.

I thought about including Vonnegut in the list I made of stuff on my SF/Fantasy wall of shelves, but then I also thought about including H.G. Wells (for good reason!). I only have a couple Vonneguts there (though I'm pretty sure I have more elsewhere, which is actually why I didn't mention him earlier -- Not Just SF! -- because of course I'm a dumbass), most notably Slaughterhouse Five. I remember liking one of his books very much indeed, but amn't sure if it was that one or Cat's Cradle (which I remember because of Ice Nine) or another. I used to think I knew that he made what might be the best commencement address ever. I just listened to his 1998 address at Rice, and ... no, that ain't it.

As for Asimov ... I'm sorry to say that I honestly never thought he was that good, though he most certainly was prolific, and I have like 20 of his books. Foundation and some of its sequels were nice. I just pulled out my copy of Nightfall and Other Stories and will take a quick peep. I also liked the way the producers of the TV show Buck Rogers in the 25th Century paid him homage.

I pulled out Poul Anderson's The Winter of the World, which I'm tempted to re-read Right Now except I also still have hopes to get more of my own stuff done today. I'm tempted to cite my own Star Trek novel for color, but ... nah.

I loved The Martian except for the stupid-ass windstorms. I can see that being acceptable in a film when everything else coming from H-wood is such scientifically unacceptable hogshizzle, but in a novel?! No effing way.

The only things I remember fondly about Ray Bradbury were the beauty of his prose, The Martian Chronicles, and the extreme creepy wonderfulness of his carnies.

Rendezvous with Rama was my favorite Arthur Clarke, though I also remember loving The Nine Billion Names of God.

 

[SimonDoom]

I thought about including Vonnegut in the list I made of stuff on my SF/Fantasy wall of shelves, but then I also thought about including H.G. Wells (for good reason!)./I].

Glad you mentioned HG Wells. I had a book that was a complete collection of his stories, including War of the Worlds and The Time Machine, and you can't have an all time great Sci Fi anthology without including those, especially when you consider how far ahead of their time they were.

I kind of agree with you about Asimov. Nightfall is an all-time great short story, but I thought Foundation was overrated. It's too obviously deterministic and implausible. The characters are a bit wooden, too.

I know we're talking about stories, not movies, but since it's based on an original screenplay I'd also recommend the movie Moon. A very smart, well-written sci fi movie based on a cool, creepy concept. Came out 10 years ago.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The only way to get Heinlein's babies is to...

1. go back in time and seduce him.

Pretty sure Heinlein already wrote that.

 

[Hypoxia]

Pretty sure Heinlein already wrote that.

All myths and fictions are real in his multiverse. We're all in there -- every LIT piece is a documentary. Oy.

 

[acerbedingfield]

Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom series.

Most of what Heinlein wrote is relevant not from a moral standpoint but of a human interaction standpoint. No one in those stories actually gives a shit what is going on even when they realize the whole fascist liberal system is fucked up and fucking everyone over.

Dick was good, but most of what he wrote in Electric Dreams was lost when it was converted into blade runner. But the novel Edge of Human really brought things back to how it should have been.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I like Mr. Dick's shorts. Some of them were thought provoking, like the one post-apocalyptic one about a society obsessed with their Barbie-like dolls, others were crazy drug hallucinations - like the one where people are killed by sentient pinballs. Good stuff

 

[MetaBob]

Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom series.

I thought about that, too. The question of what is SF and what is Fantasy has been raised on this thread before. To me, A Princess of Mars is WAY more Fantasy than SF. This is not to say that I love it any less. Yes, I paid to see the film, and yes, I have the Blu-ray.

Ray. Yeah.

I also liked some "Andre" Norton stuff. SF, maybe kinda sorta but probably not, despite how it was marketed. But readable ... yep.

Post-apocalyptic. Is that a thing somewhere between SF and Fantasy? Because if so: A Canticle For Leibowitz.

 

[NotWise]

No-one has mentioned Jules Verne yet, so I will. "30,000 Leagues Under the Sea," "Journey Too the Center of the Earth," "To the Moon and Around the Moon," are all great stories -- obviously dated, but still great stories.

Speaking of dated... I've read the opinion that the detective story genre and SciFi genre were both invented by E.T.A. Hoffman (1776-1822), who was a polymath of incredible ability. He's known for his musical compositions almost as much as for his literary work. Some of his stories still resonate today, including the original versions of The Nutcracker and Coppelia.

And before Mr. Doom claims these are fantasies instead of SciFi, at the time they were written, clock-work machinery and clock makers (Herr Drosselmeyer in The Nutcracker was a clock maker) were the height of science, and Coppelia went so far as to suggest that Dr. Coppelius could animate his clockwork doll (made in the image of a dead lover) with the soul of a living girl.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Last time we talked Heinlein, I made some mild criticism of his work and somebody got mortally offended, so I shall refrain from repeating what I said then

Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein", obviously.

Iain M. Banks' "Culture" novels - I love his world-building but the stories always seem to end up depressingly grim. Use Of Weapons has one of the best twist endings I've read.

George Alec Effinger's "When Gravity Fails", "Fire In The Sun" - these are great cyberpunk, I've never understood why he wasn't a bigger name.

Charlie Stross's sci-fi - generally I start getting a headache about two-thirds of the way into these as I try to keep up with his ideas, but the ride is fun. People transfer their consciousness into computers, make copies of themselves that evolve in different directions and end up feuding with one another. Time agents who kill their own grandparents as part of their initiation. etc. etc.

This discussion is reminding me that my SF reading has been disproportionately male. I loved LeGuin's fantasy work so I really ought to track down her SF, along with Butler and a lot of more recent authors.

 

[MetaBob]

along with Butler and a lot of more recent authors.

Octavia Butler's SF is wonderful stuff. Unusual, by some standards, but still wonderful.

(I assume that's the "Butler" you're referring to.)

For LeGuin, go to The Dispossessed and don't look back. There's more, and if you read that and nothing else we would all be better for it, but she wrote this short once that Blew. My. Mind. It might've been An die Musik. I don't know, I gave it away because I liked it so much that I wanted to share it.

 

[acerbedingfield]

I thought about that, too. The question of what is SF and what is Fantasy has been raised on this thread before. To me, A Princess of Mars is WAY more Fantasy than SF. This is not to say that I love it any less. Yes, I paid to see the film, and yes, I have the Blu-ray.

Ray. Yeah.

I also liked some "Andre" Norton stuff. SF, maybe kinda sorta but probably not, despite how it was marketed. But readable ... yep.

Post-apocalyptic. Is that a thing somewhere between SF and Fantasy? Because if so: A Canticle For Leibowitz.

Barsoom is all science fiction. The air ships, the technology in the weapons, the gigantic air handling system that creates the whole plot of the first story...

I was thrilled when they finally started making the John Carter movie, but when I saw what was included and that it wasn't actually an actual rendition of a particular story but a "we took a character from a book and the setting and combined it with star wars.."

 

[ElectricBlue]

I know we're talking about stories, not movies, but since it's based on an original screenplay I'd also recommend the movie Moon. A very smart, well-written sci fi movie based on a cool, creepy concept. Came out 10 years ago.

Watched that one again, a couple of weeks ago. Very good. Made by David Bowie's son, as a random fact.

Also, its complete opposite - Dark Star. John Carpenter's first movie, one of the funniest/daftest things I've ever seen. 700 stoned/drunk uni students at the 11.00pm showing, insanely brilliant.

 

[MetaBob]

Dark Star. John Carpenter's first movie, one of the funniest/daftest things I've ever seen.

Brilliant!

 

[Hypoxia]

Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein", obviously.

It's about a man who abandoned science for magic to paste his creation together, then abandoned his eloquent 'child'. It's a moral tale.

George Alec Effinger's "When Gravity Fails", "Fire In The Sun" - these are great cyberpunk, I've never understood why he wasn't a bigger name.

Because he was mostly too sick to continue writing incredible stuff. Barb Hambly married him to give insurance coverage. Then he died. I was dis-invited from both wedding and funeral. But I've fondled his awards.

Note: Moving to New Orleans with him provoked her pretty good Benjamin January historical series. BTW I love her BRIDE OF THE RAT-GOD (though she tells me it's her worst-seller).

Meanwhile, I'll again point to Vernor Vinge, inventor of cyberspace, the singularity, and ubiquitous surveillance and VR. Sure, Doc Smith invented spaceship controls (copied by NASA designers), and Heinlein invented waterbeds and waldos, as well as pushing libertarian fantasies only slightly more real than those of Ayn Rand, welfare recipient. But Vinge's future scares me most because it's mostly here now. Yikes.

 

[MetaBob]

"we took a character from a book and the setting and combined it with star wars.."

"They" did not take it from Star Wars. Star Wars took it from them.

 

[NotWise]

Also, its complete opposite - Dark Star. John Carpenter's first movie, one of the funniest/daftest things I've ever seen. 700 stoned/drunk uni students at the 11.00pm showing, insanely brilliant.

Then let's not forget about The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Dr. Frank N. Furter, Riff Raff, and Magenta were aliens, after all.