Truman fires MacArthur

[Jessie_Pinkman]

On April 11, 1951, U.S. President Harry S. Truman relieved General of the Army Douglas MacArthur of his commands after MacArthur made public statements which contradicted the administration's policies. MacArthur was a popular hero of World War II who was then the commander of United Nations forces fighting in the Korean War, and his relief remains a controversial topic in the field of civil–military relations.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Truman_and_MacArthur.JPG

In a December 3. 1973 article in Time magazine, Truman was quoted as saying in the early 1960s:

"I fired him because he wouldn't respect the authority of the President. I didn't fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that's not against the law for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail."

I love that quote.

 

[Kantarii]

And Truman is the reason we have problems with North Korea to this day.

 

[FGB]

POTUS is either the CNC or not...can't have it both ways.

 

[bellisarius]

MacArthur should have been relieved for two reasons, both of which Truman stated. (I'll add one of my one later.)

He did disrespect and contradict Truman. That alone was reason enough. But what was even more damning is that he ignored the intelligence that was telling him that the Chinese were massing on the border. All that followed when they streamed across the Yalu is on his back.

My addition, MacArthur fancied himself as the Premier of the Far East and behaved as such. He occupied a political position, at least in his own mind, and as such was a threat to the chain of command.

That being said, he was a genius and deserves accolades for his accomplishments. He took more territory with the least loss of life (Allied) of any WWII general. The landings at Inchon was a master stroke.

 

[Jessie_Pinkman]

MacArthur should have been relieved for two reasons, both of which Truman stated. (I'll add one of my one later.)

He did disrespect and contradict Truman. That alone was reason enough. But what was even more damning is that he ignored the intelligence that was telling him that the Chinese were massing on the border. All that followed when they streamed across the Yalu is on his back.

My addition, MacArthur fancied himself as the Premier of the Far East and behaved as such. He occupied a political position, at least in his own mind, and as such was a threat to the chain of command.

That being said, he was a genius and deserves accolades for his accomplishments. He took more territory with the least loss of life (Allied) of any WWII general. The landings at Inchon was a master stroke.

... and was brilliant as supreme commander of the reconstruction efforts in Japan.

Shame he wanted to drop a slew of atomic bombs in Korea.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I remember reading about this when it happened. Truman is still the most unpopular POTUS in history, and this is one of the reasons. Looking back, Truman was somewhat justified, but he probably should have paid more heed to the man who almost certainly knew the situation better than anybody.

 

[Jessie_Pinkman]

I remember reading about this when it happened. Truman is still the most unpopular POTUS in history, and this is one of the reasons. Looking back, Truman was somewhat justified, but he probably should have paid more heed to the man who almost certainly knew the situation better than anybody.

Bull.
Shit.

MacArthur:

"Of all the campaigns of my life, 20 major ones to be exact, [Korea was] the one I felt most sure of was the one I was deprived of waging. I could have won the war in Korea in a maximum of 10 days.... I would have dropped between 30 and 50 atomic bombs on his air bases and other depots strung across the neck of Manchuria.... It was my plan as our amphibious forces moved south to spread behind us—from the Sea of Japan to the Yellow Sea—a belt of radioactive cobalt. It could have been spread from wagons, carts, trucks and planes.... For at least 60 years there could have been no land invasion of Korea from the north. The enemy could not have marched across that radiated belt."

 

[KeithD]

POTUS is either the CNC or not...can't have it both ways.

Fine. He's not. He never has tried to be and he has succeeded HUGELY in not being.

And the election was stolen for him. He isn't even smart enough to have stolen it himself. Busy worrying about George III occupying American airports, probably.

 

[Tigersman]

If you read the best seller about Truman you will discover he was headed to West Point when he got called back home because of a sick or dying relative. He later received a reserve officer's commission. From that point on he had an extremely strong dislike for West Point grads. He did everything he could to hamstring MacArthur but failed. Truman had a chip on his shoulder as large as a telephone pole.

 

[colddiesel]

. But what was even more damning is that he ignored the intelligence that was telling him that the Chinese were massing on the border. All that followed when they streamed across the Yalu is on his back.

This is absolutely correct. The CIA warned him exactly what would happen if he tried to attack up the Yalu. But his Hubris was so great he preferred the utterly wrong advice of a friend. Truman was a very underrated President and did what was necessary.

And MacArthur shoulda hanged Hirohito when he had the chance.

 

[Jessie_Pinkman]

And MacArthur shoulda hanged Hirohito when he had the chance.

That would have derailed the entire reconstruction effort.

https://www.bacononthebookshelf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/hirohito_macarthur_1945.jpg

MacArthur felt he needed Hirohito to keep the rest of Japan on board with the rebuilding of the nation.

And it worked.

 

[FL30]

And MacArthur shoulda hanged Hirohito when he had the chance.

Then the Japanese would have risen up against us.

After all, they were already willing to die for him as it was.

Hirohito convinced the Japanese people to actually surrender to the Americans against the wish of the military.

Hirohito was NOT the one that wanted the war to begin with. It was pushed upon him by the military.

 

[KeithD]

Then the Japanese would have risen up against us.

After all, they were already willing to die for him as it was.

Hirohito convinced the Japanese people to actually surrender to the Americans against the wish of the military.

Yeah, I don't think it would have gone well to have hanged Hirohito. He wasn't that much in charge during the war--was doing what he was told. He did the same thing after the war for the United States, and the result was transitioning about as well as was possible. He publicly gave up his divinity position after the war and there haven't really been Japanese going amok on that point subsequently.

 

[Hal9000_]

What about Patton? He didn't get fired, but got reassigned to a "historical record" command.

 

[FL30]

What about Patton? He didn't get fired, but got reassigned to a "historical record" command.

yep, NO ONE would ever cut in front of a general's car on purpose!!

I'm sure this was planned as someone probably thought he was getting to big for his britches, too.

 

[Hal9000_]

yep, NO ONE would ever cut in front of a general's car on purpose!!

I'm sure this was planned as someone probably thought he was getting to big for his britches, too.

Well...that's a whole other conspiracy theory.

And I remember growing up being told he was run over by a horse cart that got loose.

 

[jaF0]

".... I would have dropped between 30 and 50 atomic bombs on his air bases and other depots strung across the neck of Manchuria...."

Two were bad enough. More would have been unforgivable.

 

[colddiesel]

Then the Japanese would have risen up against us.

After all, they were already willing to die for him as it was.

Hirohito convinced the Japanese people to actually surrender to the Americans against the wish of the military.

Hirohito was NOT the one that wanted the war to begin with. It was pushed upon him by the military.

I see the point you are making but do not agree with it. In any monarchy the institution is more important than the man. It would have continued with or without Hirohito. In some ways executing (or encouraging the death of) Hirohito would have helped Japan put its past behind it. As it is they had to put up with him as a national figure of shame for another 44 years.

I met with some conservative Japanese in the 60's who were firmly of the view that Hirohito's advisors brought dishonour on both the nation and him because they did not advise him to commit seppuku (hara-kiri - suicide).

Bringing in western concepts of guilt/evidence and the like are of no importance to the Japanese mind. They would give priority to the future of the nation and the national culture - not one man's life.

I think Macarthur mis-judged the situation because his ideas of justice law and convenience prevailed. He should have made sure Hirohito was given the best available Japanese advice, plus a tanto.

 

[jaF0]

^^ That's the kind of stupidthink that got them into the mess in the first place. They needed a reboot of their way of life.

 

[McMax]

By relieving MacArthur Truman ruined any chance that MacArthur would be the Republican candidate for President in 1952 to challenge him for the White House but I bet that never enter old Harry's head even once.

 

[Boxlicker101]

^^ That's the kind of stupidthink that got them into the mess in the first place. They needed a reboot of their way of life.

Well, they ended up getting one.

When Japan finally offered to surrender, the only condition they asked for was a continuation of the emperor as the nominal head of state. To agree to this and then double-cross the Japanese would have been a serious mistake and probably would have resulted in an uprising against the occupation.

 

[jaF0]

By relieving MacArthur Truman ruined any chance that MacArthur would be the Republican candidate for President in 1952 to challenge him for the White House but I bet that never enter old Harry's head even once.

That makes no sense. If anything, it would have emboldened Mac if he was interested. Had he chosen to run, wouldn't he have won easily if indeed he was a popular as he thought he was?

 

[Jessie_Pinkman]

This year's history question

Should Truman have used The Bomb on North Korea?

Might we now have a unified Korea (no North/South) if we had?

 

[Jessie_Pinkman]

 

[jaF0]

Should threads be auto locked after six months?