Climate continues to change.

[gunthernehmen]

There aren't enough trees to burn close to urban or enough wildlife to support hunting involving the size of today's population. In three months there wouldn't be anything with four legs in sight.

That was more or less what I meant. I can hunt and fish. I know the wild plants I can eat and the ones that will kill me. I can build a fire without a match. I can build a shelter to keep the rain off my head. I CAN'T populate the woods, streams and fields with wild food to harvest after the hungry masses have consumed everything in sight. And my chances of fighting past hundreds of miles of those hungry masses are slim to none. So I'll die, more than likely, if that comes to pass.

Now if I happen to be on vacation in the mountains when AOC passes her green new deal, THEN I've got a shot.

 

[coati]

Nothing I said is false. I'm arguing against the demands of your new found leader AOC who is demanding the banning of fossil fuels in ten years as if it were a possibility.

Don't tell me who my "new found leader" is. If you want to criticize her, go to one of the many AOC threads.

If you want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, set your AOC talking points aside and consider the options.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Not at ALL what I think.

I think nobody but NOBODY will ever make any significant effort to reduce their carbon footprint. That means individuals and that means businesses and that means government. It's too inconvenient.

I acknowledge the hypocrisy but I've met few if any libs and NO climate scarologists that will do so.

Go nuclear or shut up. Wind/solar are unicorn farts in the wind.

Nuclear has to be a part of the non-carbon energy equation. There is no energy future without it. It is the replacement for the steady state provided by coal and natural gas.

However, wind and solar are absolutely a big part of the equation as well. It is impossible to stop polluting and poisoning the air and water without wind and solar. I'll add that geothermal and tidal are also in the mix.

Deploying distributed power generation and a smart grid combined with non-carbon energy are also going to be a massive job and wealth creation engine.

 

[Que]

Nuclear has to be a part of the non-carbon energy equation. There is no energy future without it. It is the replacement for the steady state provided by coal and natural gas.

However, wind and solar are absolutely a big part of the equation as well. It is impossible to stop polluting and poisoning the air and water without wind and solar. I'll add that geothermal and tidal are also in the mix.

Deploying distributed power generation and a smart grid combined with non-carbon energy are also going to be a massive job and wealth creation engine.

Not only are creating windmills and solar panels not carbonless processes they absolutely pollute. What a load of nonsense.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Nuclear has to be a part of the non-carbon energy equation. There is no energy future without it. It is the replacement for the steady state provided by coal and natural gas.

However, wind and solar are absolutely a big part of the equation as well. It is impossible to stop polluting and poisoning the air and water without wind and solar. I'll add that geothermal and tidal are also in the mix.

Deploying distributed power generation and a smart grid combined with non-carbon energy are also going to be a massive job and wealth creation engine.

Wind and solar at the present state of technology is an absurd fantasy. Perfect solution for a random, off grid cabin. Idiotic on any large scale. Check in again after another couple hundred years of development and I might have a different view. The only (relatively) non polluting source of large scale power is nuclear.

Geothermal... maybe a good heat sink for hvac, but I don't see it powering a city. Tidal? Same issue as with hydro. Devastating to ecology. How many fish must die?

I contend that there will never be any significant effort on the part of the "masses" to conserve energy. Since nobody (including myself) is willing to kill off the 6 or 7 billion people it would require to be in balance, that leaves generating enough power to keep them satisfied and complacent. THAT means fossil fuels or nuclear. Nuclear in the USA is all but dead due to the "save the whales" idiots back in the 60s and 70s.

So we're screwed as far as that is concerned. If you and Phro are correct and we are altering the climate, we're totally screwed. And nothing will change that. If you're wrong, we're still screwed because interfering with natural climate change would be more dangerous than leaving it all alone.

 

[phrodeau]

Who’s the doomsayer now, hm?

 

[gunthernehmen]

Who’s the doomsayer now, hm?

Life is a death sentence. That's just how it is.

I'm enjoying life until I'm dead. I doubt humans are affecting the climate, certainly not to the "degree" you think.

You seem to think you can do something about it. You can't.

If climate change is caused by humans, you can do nothing to change it. The damage is being done (if at all) mostly in other parts of the world that simply don't CARE what Phro and Gore say.

If climate change is caused by the sun or other aspects of nature, you can do nothing to change it. The damage is on a scale and of a nature that sees you as less than a gnat.

So enjoy your comfy home and your full size SUV. I know I do. Just stop whining about what you can't possibly fix.

 

[Rightguide]

That was more or less what I meant. I can hunt and fish. I know the wild plants I can eat and the ones that will kill me. I can build a fire without a match. I can build a shelter to keep the rain off my head. I CAN'T populate the woods, streams and fields with wild food to harvest after the hungry masses have consumed everything in sight. And my chances of fighting past hundreds of miles of those hungry masses are slim to none. So I'll die, more than likely, if that comes to pass.

Now if I happen to be on vacation in the mountains when AOC passes her green new deal, THEN I've got a shot.

If this were to happen we'd be lucky of we didn't start eating each other. One thing for sure every left winger in America would disappear never to be heard from again.

 

[gunthernehmen]

If this were to happen we'd be lucky of we didn't start eating each other. One thing for sure every left winger in America would disappear never to be heard from again.

Nothing wrong with eating each other... oh, THAT way LOL

Yes, the left would all die. Survival skills appropriate for living in this society won't get them very far in a people-eating-people sort of world.

 

[coati]

Life is a death sentence. That's just how it is.

I'm enjoying life until I'm dead. I doubt humans are affecting the climate, certainly not to the "degree" you think.

You seem to think you can do something about it. You can't.

If climate change is caused by humans, you can do nothing to change it. The damage is being done (if at all) mostly in other parts of the world that simply don't CARE what Phro and Gore say.

If climate change is caused by the sun or other aspects of nature, you can do nothing to change it. The damage is on a scale and of a nature that sees you as less than a gnat.

So enjoy your comfy home and your full size SUV. I know I do. Just stop whining about what you can't possibly fix.

Well, that's a convenient dodge. You doubt humans are affecting the climate, but even if they are, we might as well give up. After all, life beyond our personal "death sentence" does not matter, and those damned foreigners are the real problem, including the ones who are pushing for the international climate accords. U.S. leadership only counts for Amerika Furst initiatives.

I'm not interested in joining your suicide cult. Your diatribe is yet another good reason to use the descriptive term, "Deplorable".

 

[gunthernehmen]

Well, that's a convenient dodge. You doubt humans are affecting the climate, but even if they are, we might as well give up. After all, life beyond our personal "death sentence" does not matter, and those damned foreigners are the real problem, including the ones who are pushing for the international climate accords. U.S. leadership only counts for Amerika Furst initiatives.

I'm not interested in joining your suicide cult. Your diatribe is yet another good reason to use the descriptive term, "Deplorable".

Got it. You have no plausible denial so you resort to insults.

Let's stipulate for discussion that climate change is real and is being driven by human activities.

The US was once one of the worst polluters and is now among the cleanest countries. Just what do you imagine we could do to improve things from here? Give up coal in 10 years? ROFL

Meanwhile, China, India and Russia are all emulating the US of the 1950s. They couldn't care less how All Gore feels about the climate. Just how do you plan to coerce them to play along with your carbon game? By setting an example? We already did. For all the good (none) it will do.

Or are you leaning toward WWIII? Because that's what it would take.

 

[coati]

Got it. You have no plausible denial so you resort to insults.

Let's stipulate for discussion that climate change is real and is being driven by human activities.

The US was once one of the worst polluters and is now among the cleanest countries. Just what do you imagine we could do to improve things from here? Give up coal in 10 years? ROFL

Meanwhile, China, India and Russia are all emulating the US of the 1950s. They couldn't care less how All Gore feels about the climate. Just how do you plan to coerce them to play along with your carbon game? By setting an example? We already did. For all the good (none) it will do.

Or are you leaning toward WWIII? Because that's what it would take.

Then just give up and get the hell out of the way, deplorable weenie, and let some real leaders step forward and fill your welcomed absence.

 

[Pocketshaver]

its a cyclic event tied to the sun...

more heat from the sun hitting the atmosphere, things get warmer. less heat hits atmosphere, it gets cooler.

we have had 5 major changes in climate in the last 2000 years. Last one was a COLD swing in the 1600s

in King Henrys time, England sent more WINE to france then france made in a year. Then the climate change came and got England nice and damp and cold and killed off the grapes.

 

[phrodeau]

its a cyclic event tied to the sun...

more heat from the sun hitting the atmosphere, things get warmer. less heat hits atmosphere, it gets cooler.

we have had 5 major changes in climate in the last 2000 years. Last one was a COLD swing in the 1600s

in King Henrys time, England sent more WINE to france then france made in a year. Then the climate change came and got England nice and damp and cold and killed off the grapes.

Well, the last solar maximum was pretty weak by recent standards, and we’re currently entering a solar minimum period that hasn’t made much of a dent in the global surface temps. Cooling in the upper atmosphere has been observed, which is expected when the lower atmosphere retains more heat.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Then just give up and get the hell out of the way, deplorable weenie, and let some real leaders step forward and fill your welcomed absence.

Real leaders like Bernie and AOC? Hello Venezuela!

Thanks, no. Your "real" leaders have fucked this country up quite enough already. I have maybe 20-30 years left on this Earth and I don't feel like squatting in a mud hut reading a book by candlelight for most of them.

How about YOU step aside, and watch real men mold this world into something that suits us rather than praying to the sun God's for a little break in the heat?

 

[phrodeau]

Real leaders like Bernie and AOC? Hello Venezuela!

Thanks, no. Your "real" leaders have fucked this country up quite enough already. I have maybe 20-30 years left on this Earth and I don't feel like squatting in a mud hut reading a book by candlelight for most of them.

How about YOU step aside, and watch real men mold this world into something that suits us rather than praying to the sun God's for a little break in the heat?

You “real men” have a lousy track record. DDT, CFC and TEL, for starters.

 

[gunthernehmen]

You “real men” have a lousy track record. DDT, CFC and TEL, for starters.

What have you accomplished lately?

 

[Dribble]

Amazing thing about radioisotopes...they are in everything. And they dont lie. Isotope ratios are as unique as DNA. Think on that naysayers.

 

[phrodeau]

What have you accomplished lately?

I posted verifiable scientific information on a porn board, and you didn’t.

 

[coati]

Real leaders like Bernie and AOC? Hello Venezuela!

Thanks, no. Your "real" leaders have fucked this country up quite enough already. I have maybe 20-30 years left on this Earth and I don't feel like squatting in a mud hut reading a book by candlelight for most of them.

How about YOU step aside, and watch real men mold this world into something that suits us rather than praying to the sun God's for a little break in the heat?

Nahh, bullshit talking points spewing from your mouth. You have no idea who will be the next set of leaders at the federal level, but you like to trot out the more extreme possibilities so you can throw up your hands and scream about socialism. That simple-minded shit gets old.

The policy changes that are needed to significantly increase the proportion of renewable energy production and use fossil fuels mainly as a fill-in dispatchable resource will involve state efforts, federal efforts, and international collaboration. The Deplorables in America are not providing leadership on these policy change efforts at any of those levels, so get ready to be replaced by people who accept the facts and are ready to do something.

Here in Arizona, the state Commissioners who were taking campaign money from major utilities working to suppress distributed solar production are now under public scrutiny and one of them (the Chair) was replaced in the last election. They ran his sorry Deplorable ass out of office and replaced him with a Commissioner who is calling for an investigation of another Commissioner who is acting as a paid shill to protect the status quo.

On campuses all over this country the next generation of leaders are witnessing the suicidal policies of Deplorable leaders. They will take over, and your self-centered myopic approach will be shoved aside.

 

[Ahusband76]

Carbon footprints don't affect the climate. It's where the carbon comes from that's the problem. Coal, oil and natural gas are pulled from the ground and burned, with the carbon going into the air. It's the added carbon in the air that is causing solar heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere.

Carbon dioxide is the stuff dry ice is made from. If you've ever seen dry ice, it usually makes a fog that sinks to the floor. Carbon dioxide is heavier than regular air, so it sticks close to the ground. It does not rise up and disappear into space. Every year, the amount of carbon dioxide in the air we live in increases.

A carbon footprint is the amount of carbon that something is responsible for. If that carbon comes from surface sources like crops, firewood or animal products, the carbon dioxide produced is balanced by the natural processes that absorb carbon dioxide from the air. Any recent creation of fossil fuels cannot keep up with the rate that humans are burning them, so a carbon footprint that includes fossil fuels will only put more carbon dioxide in our air.

It's mostly fear mongering. What the world needs is population control.

 

[gunthernehmen]

I posted verifiable scientific information on a porn board, and you didn’t.

You've posted opinions. You haven't posted a single fact in this thread ever, verifiable or not.

I will admit that you're really, really certain that you did do so, though.

(In case you missed it I am mocking the "gold standard" BS somebody posted a while back)

 

[Kantarii]

Has anyone mentioned volcanos? Large scale volcanic eruptions can change the climate for years by lowering the amount of light hitting the earth’s surface. Or are we only talking about the greenhouse effect? Kant

 

[gunthernehmen]

Has anyone mentioned volcanos? Large scale volcanic eruptions can change the climate for years by lowering the amount of light hitting the earth’s surface. Or are we only talking about the greenhouse effect? Kant

We're only allowed to discuss HUMAN caused global warming. Natural processes are off limits.

Unsure of this applies to Taco Bell volcanic processes, though.

 

[thør]

Are you posting from your phone?