The Wine Test

[CamronsInsider]

Ok, I'm holding my breath and taking the plunge. You have no idea how anxious, and nervous this makes me feel. Crazy isn't it?!?!? I mean, I recently made a complete fool of myself with a coworker (that's elsewhare on the site) - and while I'm still on edge over that .... this makes me feel a lot of butterflies.

But, first, The Wine Test - I'm not a wine person, you know the type - folks who sip wine and talk about how smokey it is with a finish of apple and a tweak of cinnamon. I'm not one of those folks. But I have friends who are and they kept shoving wine at me for a long time - telling me "Don't you taste the cherry initially and then the charcoal finish". No I don't. It was a constant source of frustration with me. Unable to communicate with experienced people in the language they had for things I could not sense.

Now stop for just a second and think about that. A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT POETRY! Maybe stop for more than a second.

Resuming ..... One dreaded day, one of my friends had a new idea. I was given TWO glasses of wine and asked "do they taste different?". Well yes they did. "Tell me Cam, how do they taste different?" Well that sparked an entire and very productive conversation about wine tasting. DO I understand now what all the wine words mean? No. But, I'm not so afraid and I know when I'm in that situation, I need to grab a second glass and start comparing.

So, let's try this with my admittedly basic starter poetry. I'm providing two for contrast. Rather than looking at a single point, now you have a range to think about with me. Wanna try this out?

I was tempted to start out with poems that I think are good, but that would likely skew the whole experience, so, I’m starting with older poems, more than 10 years old and I’ll work my way forward. I’m not going to cherry pick, we get to know each other for reals this way.

Poem 1

An ever unfolding silk floats as a sail,
Twirling in circles that do not end,
Without rest the tapestry flies with life,
An unfurled gift from God.

Not a flag in flight, not a shroud at rest,
But an ever new moment renewed again,
A sparkling ribbon lives in the wind,
A life without form but of substance.

While we are touched by the Spirit,
The gift streams in bright rays,
We cannot see what we already know,
But we know, we unfold and we Love.

Poem 2

Frozen prints of joy on a snow filled green,
Sleigh prints, dog prints, and little snow boots,
All giving direction of places been, and places to be,
All given texture by life.

With the sun we feel the crackle beneath our feet,
The wrapping of snow reveals the life to be,
And as the life that once was fades in the sun,
A new life is raised.

Where the snow was once heavy there is now warmth,
To play, tracing round in circles of footprints,
But we walk a new path and hold our path true,
In love we find life.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Whose poems are these, always best to give the poet his or her due.

 

[butters]

hi C

of the two, i prefer your first example. it's more evocative, to me, in its phrasing and strong imagery, draws me in more with its movement and texture.

in (only) my opinion, your second example feels more 'tell' than 'show', and misses something more ethereal the first dances with. it has to do with the fluidity of shape and the known sensations/experience of silk. i especially enjoy how you tie 'unfurled' and 'flag' together, and the solid images any of us can form when you use the words, 'sail/flag/shroud & ribbon'. you use a consistency of 'fabric' words together with silk, to create more behind the visuals... the sensations of movement, the textures, the sensations of movement reinforced by your line 'twirling in circles that do not end'.

in other words, your first piece caught my attention and imagination, your second not so much. i do like your penultimate line, but you gave me nothing as a reader to make my mind engage.

your first could use some polishing (again, just my opinion) and if you'd like i could make some suggestions. i don't mind if you choose not to use them. i rarely edit old pieces of mine and never do so to fit with someone else's suggestions unless they also feel right to me once i've weighed them up.

 

[butters]

and THANKYOU for showing us your writing you have something. you do.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

and THANKYOU for showing us your writing you have something. you do.

Now I'm confused, I thought the OP only writes rhyming poetry and can't see the point of free style

 

[butters]

Now I'm confused, I thought the OP only writes rhyming poetry and can't see the point of free style

maybe the stuff they write now is rhyming. it threw me, too
it's that or they have a strange accent

 

[butters]

Whose poems are these, always best to give the poet his or her due.

i believe they are his

So, let's try this with my admittedly basic starter poetry. I'm providing two for contrast. Rather than looking at a single point, now you have a range to think about with me. Wanna try this out?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

maybe the stuff they write now is rhyming. it threw me, too
it's that or they have a strange accent

Or 'someone' is telling porky pies

 

[ElectricBlue]

Frozen prints of joy on a snow filled green,
Sleigh prints, dog prints, and little snow boots,

These lines are very evocative, they've got a touch of haiku about them. Very visual, and I like the brevity. The rest of the poem is a little too didactic for my taste; the first poem even more so (but then, I'm not religious, so the whole message doesn't resonate with me at all).

 

[UnderYourSpell]

These lines are very evocative, they've got a touch of haiku about them. Very visual, and I like the brevity. The rest of the poem is a little too didactic for my taste; the first poem even more so (but then, I'm not religious, so the whole message doesn't resonate with me at all).

Especially from someone who insists he sees no sense in writing free style and only knows how to write little poems for his wife that rhyme. I don't know about you but I don't like to be taken for a fool. Why all the shenanigans and lies? Leaves a nasty taste in my mouth when we have been so welcoming and then it's just a farce. Not a nice way to behave

 

[CamronsInsider]

Whose poems are these, always best to give the poet his or her due.

These are mine. I wrote them more than 10 years ago. To me, these are not very good. Oddly they don't rhyme like more of the recent poems. I wrote differently then. In any case, I put them up as a starting point, not with any hope folks would be impressed.

To me, it's better to be honest and true - they way you get to know me through my words. And isn't that what this is all about?

 

[CamronsInsider]

hi C

of the two, i prefer your first example. it's more evocative, to me, in its phrasing and strong imagery, draws me in more with its movement and texture.

in (only) my opinion, your second example feels more 'tell' than 'show', and misses something more ethereal the first dances with. it has to do with the fluidity of shape and the known sensations/experience of silk. i especially enjoy how you tie 'unfurled' and 'flag' together, and the solid images any of us can form when you use the words, 'sail/flag/shroud & ribbon'. you use a consistency of 'fabric' words together with silk, to create more behind the visuals... the sensations of movement, the textures, the sensations of movement reinforced by your line 'twirling in circles that do not end'.

in other words, your first piece caught my attention and imagination, your second not so much. i do like your penultimate line, but you gave me nothing as a reader to make my mind engage.

your first could use some polishing (again, just my opinion) and if you'd like i could make some suggestions. i don't mind if you choose not to use them. i rarely edit old pieces of mine and never do so to fit with someone else's suggestions unless they also feel right to me once i've weighed them up.

Fabulous! Muchas Gracias!

Honestly, I don't think so much of either. But the first did have more emotion and a central idea that you nailed. I wrote this around the time I was getting baptized and in my mind, I had this idea of God being something like a ribbon that flies thought the sky and is everywhere without a beginning or end. Just flying through and around the clouds.

So please share opinions. I'd like to be a better poet. That is what matters to me.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

These are mine. I wrote them more than 10 years ago. To me, these are not very good. Oddly they don't rhyme like more of the recent poems. I wrote differently then. In any case, I put them up as a starting point, not with any hope folks would be impressed.

To me, it's better to be honest and true - they way you get to know me through my words. And isn't that what this is all about?

So you saw sense in free style then but don't now? You knew how to write it then but don't now? Did you forget? You've written reams and reams on how to appreciate free style but don't know how to write it?!

 

[CamronsInsider]

So you saw sense in free style then but don't now? You knew how to write it then but don't now? Did you forget? You've written reams and reams on how to appreciate free style but don't know how to write it?!

Ok, you're are making me break the order I was planning to reply, but .....

that was then. And I suppose I should re-think this. It's all rather coincidental and there's nothing quite like watching someone shoot themselves in the foot.

What do you think of the "Wine Test"?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Ok, you're are making me break the order I was planning to reply, but .....

that was then. And I suppose I should re-think this. It's all rather coincidental and there's nothing quite like watching someone shoot themselves in the foot.

What do you think of the "Wine Test"?

Does it matter what I think apart from it's you that have shot them self in the foot. You've posted here twice. The first post says you don't see any sense in writing free style and you don't know how to do it. The second post you give us this Wine test telling us how to appreciate writing free style, giving examples of how you do it. They can't both be true .......... end of.

 

[CamronsInsider]

Does it matter what I think apart from it's you that have shot them self in the foot. You've posted here twice. The first post says you don't see any sense in writing free style and you don't know how to do it. The second post you give us this Wine test telling us how to appreciate writing free style, giving examples of how you do it. They can't both be true .......... end of.

Ah, but is Art required to be bound by the conventions of logic and consistency? Is the mind of the Artist not free to roam in an uncharted fashion, evoking truth that is relative solely to to her own sense of aesthetics?

 

[CamronsInsider]

These lines are very evocative, they've got a touch of haiku about them. Very visual, and I like the brevity. The rest of the poem is a little too didactic for my taste; the first poem even more so (but then, I'm not religious, so the whole message doesn't resonate with me at all).

Thanks, I get it. I have more work to do. I'm really wondering what everyone thinks of the wine test itself?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Ah, but is Art required to be bound by the conventions of logic and consistency? Is the mind of the Artist not free to roam in an uncharted fashion, evoking truth that is relative solely to to her own sense of aesthetics?

Nice of you to admit it ........... not. Goodbye liar, you're not welcome here.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Thanks, I get it. I have more work to do. I'm really wondering what everyone thinks of the wine test itself?

Remember, it's just my personal taste. You have another reader who takes an opposite view, and that's fine too.

 

[butters]

i think the concept of the wine test is a useful one. it can help those who are less certain about how/why they like something apply their thinking to clarify and nail down some of those reasons. so, yes, i think the wine test is a plausible working method

 

[Piscator]

i think the concept of the wine test is a useful one. it can help those who are less certain about how/why they like something apply their thinking to clarify and nail down some of those reasons. so, yes, i think the wine test is a plausible working method

seems a trifle effete, could we be more inclusive and expand it to wine, beer and whisky test?

 

[butters]

seems a trifle effete, could we be more inclusive and expand it to wine, beer and whisky test?

i'm all for that, yessir!

 

[CamronsInsider]

Especially from someone who insists he sees no sense in writing free style and only knows how to write little poems for his wife that rhyme. I don't know about you but I don't like to be taken for a fool. Why all the shenanigans and lies? Leaves a nasty taste in my mouth when we have been so welcoming and then it's just a farce. Not a nice way to behave

Woah .......

First, wow, I’m really appreciative of the round about complement. Thank you. I’m sort of fighting within myself here. I did say earlier that I did have submissions to the New Yorker. But, I also feel the terror of not really knowing what anyone will think, I have such minimal exposure. I am self conscious about all this. A little less so today. With appreciation to the members of this board.

 

[butters]

Woah .......

First, wow, I’m really appreciative of the round about complement. Thank you. I’m sort of fighting within myself here. I did say earlier that I did have submissions to the New Yorker. But, I also feel the terror of not really knowing what anyone will think, I have such minimal exposure. I am self conscious about all this. A little less so today. With appreciation to the members of this board.

i don't recall seeing that post. link?

edit": the only reference to the new yorker i can see of yours is this, which really fails to convey any sense of you having submitted work to them.

Thanks, I do appreciate your thoughts - thank you for sharing them. I remember that poems in the New Yorker used to rhyme and then I went a long time since looking at them again. Now, most all of them don't rhyme and I feel a bit like I'm not getting it. I would love to continue talking about this here.

I'm short on time today, but will read and reply to all the messages. Please be patient with me.

do i know you from elsewhere?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

i don't recall seeing that post. link?

edit": the only reference to the new yorker i can see of yours is this, which really fails to convey any sense of you having submitted work to them.



do i know you from elsewhere?

Surely anyone can make submissions, doesn't mean they are printed.