Decisions, decisions - advice would be appreciated

[TarnishedPenny]

OK, so I've got what could be my St Valentine's story 95% done. It's a first-person tale told by a female sub, one very much in love with her dom. There is no bondage, humiliation or physical violence of any sort, just total emotional submission (with some sex, some of which could be called exhibitionistic).

I could easily post it under BDSM, but I'm tempted to submit it under Romance. To my mind, it is a romance, 'an ardent emotional attachment or involvement between people.' Yet I am pretty sure that there is a fair tranche of Romance readers for whom anything beyond holding hands, walks in the moonlight, roses and chocolate (and some sex, 'cause Literotica) isn't romance. I'm still tempted, because broadening horizons is always a good thing, yes?

Not worried, either way, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

[Kantarii]

Sounds like you are a bit attached to the terms dom and sub, terms associated with BDSM. Most relationships outside that “lifestyle” still have trace elements, but not as prominent. (Ie. Traditionally the man is the provider and dominant in bed; the woman is the caregiver and submissive in bed.)

The way you describe your story, I would suggest you at least consider the Romance category. Deep emotional connections surely qualify for the category. Or you can consider the exhibition/voyeur category if that is actually a huge part of your story.Kant

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Thanks for that. I won't quibble about semantics, but in this case the terms are probably spot-on. There is no sexual violence in the story, but there are certainly references to such.

Exhibitionism is there, but not central.

Anyway, appreciate your thoughts.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Riffing off what Kant said, I think that Romance readers would be open to the story as you've described it, but they may be wary of "trigger words" like dom and sub. Many would leave the story as soon as they see them. But if you avoid such obvious tropes, and the emphasis is on the love in their relationship, you should do well.

By the way, from my experience, romance readers are fine with plenty of sex in a story, they just want it to be in a romantic context.

(I did get a small amount of negative feedback that anal sex was not romantic, but that story currently has a 4.85 rating, so...)

 

[SimonDoom]

I recommend BDSM. My experience as a reader and writer is that readers of every category like romance. But readers of romance may not take as well to elements of another category. If your story truly emphasizes dominance and submission -- if that's the main kink or theme -- it belongs in BDSM.

My second published story was a light dominance-submission story with no bondage, no sadism, no masochism. I published it in BDSM. It's my highest-rated story and it placed second overall in the annual contest among BDSM stories for 2016.

So, I recommend BDSM.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

OK, so I've got what could be my St Valentine's story 95% done. It's a first-person tale told by a female sub, one very much in love with her dom. There is no bondage, humiliation or physical violence of any sort, just total emotional submission (with some sex, some of which could be called exhibitionistic).

I could easily post it under BDSM, but I'm tempted to submit it under Romance. To my mind, it is a romance, 'an ardent emotional attachment or involvement between people.' Yet I am pretty sure that there is a fair tranche of Romance readers for whom anything beyond holding hands, walks in the moonlight, roses and chocolate (and some sex, 'cause Literotica) isn't romance. I'm still tempted, because broadening horizons is always a good thing, yes?

Not worried, either way, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Between the too, it sounds like much more like romance than BDSM. When I read a BDSM story, I expect to not only see the dominant and submissive emotional dynamic, but actual BDSM play of some kind. It sounds to me that you story probably would not have any constraints, spanking, impact play etc that I personally look for in something flagged "BDSM."

 

[LupusDei]

If there's enough exhibitionism to be mentioned, and you're worried about reception in Romance, feel welcomed in E&V. According to statistics, perhaps more broad readership and generally rather tolerant.

That category runs from watching wife trying on lingerie in a store, all the way down to consenting full time sex slaves. There's a sizable overlap with BDSM that at first surprised me, but it seems accepted. The only story I have seen mild category police comets on, had a girl performing private striptease in the confines of a bedroom, strictly one-to-one.

Even then those were rather uncalled off: it was about watching and performing, and if anything, although that wasn't mentioned I could imagine they forgot to close the curtains. Such a simple mention would probably save that story any judgement.

 

[SimonDoom]

If there's enough exhibitionism to be mentioned, and you're worried about reception in Romance, feel welcomed in E&V, according to statics more broad readership and generally rather tolerant.

That category runs from watching wife trying on lingerie in a store, all the way down to consenting full time sex slaves. There's a sizable overlap with BDSM that at first surprised me, but it seems accepted. The only story I have seen mild category police comets on, had a girl performing private striptease in the confines of a bedroom, strictly one-to-one, and even then those were rather uncalled off: it was about watching and performing, and if anything, although that wasn't mentioned I could imagine they forgot to close the curtains.

I agree with this. E&V is an open and tolerant category in which to publish stories. I've published "loving wife" type stories there and by doing so have avoided the nasty comments and votes one gets in LW.

The question is what's the main theme of the story. If there's a strong enough Exhibitionist element to it, then go ahead and publish it there. It's probably a bigger audience than BDSM. But if BDSM is the main theme, I'd recommend publishing it there.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

SD, you hit it on the head with the word 'theme'. The protagonist is exhibited to another couple while being sexually aroused, but that's not the theme and E&V is not really in the running.

'Theme' - that's where I am confused, but that word gives me a potential fulcrum.


Maeven_quinn - No, while he gives her a couple of swats on her bum and while there are references to a dungeon and such, there is no 'hard core' BDSM-type leather-and-chains action and the sex between the two is eventually not overly kinky. So your point is well-taken. Still, it is crystal clear that the relationship is anything but vanilla and I could see the lavender-and-lace set getting upset, even with an introductory warning.


I am tending towards Romance however.

 

[NotWise]

Whether or not it settles well in Romance could depend on the ending.

The Romance category isn't there for stories that are just romantic. It's there for stories that fall into the Romance genre. One of my first stories to Lit went mistakenly into Romance and I spent some time trying to figure out why it failed so miserably. The Romance formula was described to me as "Boy meets girl at the beginning of the story and they find they have a mutual interest. They struggle through barriers to build a relationship, and in the end they live happily ever after, or at least happily for now."

Not all of the stories that succeed in the Romance category fit that formula. I think the crucial element is the ending, be it HEA or HFN, the ending needs to reward the reader for reading. That warm-and-fuzzy feeling is important.

A story that satisfies the Romance readers can score well. The category makes a lot of contest winners. If your story isn't satisfying to them then the worst that can happen is that they give you a lower score, which may still be higher than you'd get in BDSM or E&V.

 

[Kantarii]

Riffing off what Kant said, I think that Romance readers would be open to the story as you've described it, but they may be wary of "trigger words" like dom and sub. Many would leave the story as soon as they see them. But if you avoid such obvious tropes, and the emphasis is on the love in their relationship, you should do well.

By the way, from my experience, romance readers are fine with plenty of sex in a story, they just want it to be in a romantic context.

(I did get a small amount of negative feedback that anal sex was not romantic, but that story currently has a 4.85 rating, so...)

You touched on something I’ve pondered from time to time - and that is sexual positions. I think each has advantages and drawbacks when it comes to participants. Some positions are/seem more romantic in my eyes. Example: Missionary, spooning seem more passionate / and romantic. Doggie style, anal I tend to associate with a primal lust - not always true. It’s enough of a factor that it influences a majority of my stories. Early chapters tend to have some form of doggie style, but as the story shifts so does the sexual positions. Maybe I’m wrong, but it fits rather well in the stories I tell.

I’ll echo what you said as well. I enjoy reading romance stories with lots of sex, but I favor a slow build up and what motivates two people to have sex - probably more so than the sex itself. Still, I want to see the emotional connection, the passion, the caring; the tenderness of love. It doesnt have to include chocolates and roses. I see those as trigger words in the romance category. Honestly, the best romance stories on this site probably steer clear of chocolates & roses themes. Kant

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Honestly, the best romance stories on this site probably steer clear of chocolates & roses themes. Kant

Understood, but I use those terms as describing the overarching 'romance' concept some people have, with rules and limits. It ain't a proper romance unless He gives Her flowers on the first date. Ick.

 

[SimonDoom]

According to Tx Tall Tales in his extremely useful article Love Your Readers: Categories (https://www.literotica.com/s/love-your-readers-categories?page=2), if your story has a "hint" of BDSM it belongs there. I think that might be an exaggeration if your story has only light dominance/submission elements and no pain or bondage, but I think he's probably right. BDSM typically trumps romance. It's worth a read.

 

[Kantarii]

Understood, but I use those terms as describing the overarching 'romance' concept some people have, with rules and limits. It ain't a proper romance unless He gives Her flowers on the first date. Ick.

How about a walk on the beach under a full moon or a quiet dinner at home by candlelight? Those are far more romantic themes than just chocolates and roses. A good night kiss, a kiss goodbye, even a shower or bath together can be romantic.

Not a first date, but I remember one year I ran a hot bubble bath for my second wife shortly after we were married. I sprinkled red rose petals in it and left a trail from the front door to the bathroom. Then, I lit some scented candles and turned off the lights. When she walked in after work, I greeted her at the door with a rose clenched in my teeth. She was blown away. No music, no chocolates - all romance. Kant

 

[Hypoxia]

Call them siblings and post in Incest.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Call them siblings and post in Incest.

Well, crap, that might be the solution.

No, not really, but it was clever.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

How about a walk on the beach under a full moon or a quiet dinner at home by candlelight? Those are far more romantic themes than just chocolates and roses. A good night kiss, a kiss goodbye, even a shower or bath together can be romantic.

Not a first date, but I remember one year I ran a hot bubble bath for my second wife shortly after we were married. I sprinkled red rose petals in it and left a trail from the front door to the bathroom. Then, I lit some scented candles and turned off the lights. When she walked in after work, I greeted her at the door with a rose clenched in my teeth. She was blown away. No music, no chocolates - all romance. Kant

I shan't quibble. All those things are typical romantic things.

And my story has none of them, yet I am still leaning towards Romance.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

According to Tx Tall Tales in his extremely useful article Love Your Readers: Categories (https://www.literotica.com/s/love-your-readers-categories?page=2), if your story has a "hint" of BDSM it belongs there. I think that might be an exaggeration if your story has only light dominance/submission elements and no pain or bondage, but I think he's probably right. BDSM typically trumps romance. It's worth a read.

It is indeed worth a read.

I would agree with his analysis of Romance, but oddly enough, he doesn't actually discuss BDSM as he does the others, just mentions it as a 'soft trump'.

 

[NotWise]

I would agree with his analysis of Romance, but oddly enough, he doesn't actually discuss BDSM as he does the others, just mentions it as a 'soft trump'.

It's mentioned as a "soft trump" on the second page. There's a little discussion of BDSM near the bottom of the first page.

 

[Kantarii]

I shan't quibble. All those things are typical romantic things.

And my story has none of them, yet I am still leaning towards Romance.

Romance it’s magical. I’m sure your story will be received well there. I look forward to reading it when you post it in whatever category you decide.Kant

 

[SimonDoom]

Romance it’s magical. I’m sure your story will be received well there. I look forward to reading it when you post it in whatever category you decide.Kant

Agreed. Let us know where you publish it. I'm working on a romantic light BDSM story, although it will involve bondage, so I know where I'm going to publish it. Assuming I get it done in time, which is not a sure thing at this point.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

It's mentioned as a "soft trump" on the second page. There's a little discussion of BDSM near the bottom of the first page.

That's weird. I cannot find the little discussion you mention. Even a search just shows the one mention of BDSM, as a soft trump.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Thanks all for their insights. I do appreciate your help.

 

[HeyAll]

Sadly, not many people read bdsm anymore. It's unfortunate because hardcore bdsm with great characters is so much fun to write.

But romance still has plenty of readers, so i'd stick it there.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sadly, not many people read bdsm anymore. It's unfortunate because hardcore bdsm with great characters is so much fun to write.

But romance still has plenty of readers, so i'd stick it there.

This is a good point. If you compare the 12-month toplists for BDSM and Romance, respectively, you'll quickly see that Romance stories get at least several times the views and votes as BDSM stories.

Which has me reconsidering where to publish my story.