Is a redemptive narrative still possible?

[astuffedshirt_perv]

Is a redemptive narrative even possible to write in the modern world?

Consider some of the great redeemed villains—Ebenezer Scrooge, Darth Vader, Grinch and the like. In the modern world, there’d always be twits endlessly tweeting ‘don’t forget what so-and-so did 20 years ago’ or some such drivel. Never forget Cindy Lou Who!

Could you even write a plausible redemptive narrative today?

 

[RejectReality]

There's a common theme in all of those. There are fantasy elements requiring the reader/viewer to have already suspended disbelief to some extent before the redemptive arch completes.

It's always been a device that required suspension of disbelief, so I don't think the current climate really affects those kind of stories.

If anything, it gives you another tool to work with. Minor mistakes can be blown out of proportion and go viral, but so can innocuous gestures of goodwill captured by the right person. Have one cancel the other, and you have a nice yin/yang to go with your redemptive arch.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

What it will take is for the majority of people to get sick of decades-back muckraking and trivialized offenses.

A statue of Gandhi - Gandhi! - has been taken down recently as offensive. Only when the majority get sick enough of such nonsense to push back will the lunacy stop. Until then, no, it's not possible.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think RejectReality is right. Of course, such a narrative is possible, and if anything the current environment makes it easier by creating a useful plot device. It's an easy source of conflict and tension. Your story idea is limited only by your imagination, not by the restrictions of whatever society you live in.

Erotica gets much of its frisson from the very fact that erotic activities are disapproved of or taboo. The restrictive and nutty and disapproving aspects of society should be seen as opportunities for, not limitations on, writers.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Could you even write a plausible redemptive narrative today?

I think I did.

 

[ChloeTzang]

What it will take is for the majority of people to get sick of decades-back muckraking and trivialized offenses.

A statue of Gandhi - Gandhi! - has been taken down recently as offensive. Only when the majority get sick enough of such nonsense to push back will the lunacy stop. Until then, no, it's not possible.

Oh, I think you can still write them. The audience for actual books with content is a lot different than the audience for lunacy, most of whom don't read to widely. Take Baen Books science fiction for example, they cater for a distinct market in the SF genre very successfully. I'd hesitate to call Tom Kratman's SF novels (and I'm thinking the Carrera series) redemptive in the wider sense, but I'd see them in that light myself and they're very successful. Maybe not bestsellers, but he does okay writing full-time.

If it's a good story, it's going to find an audience, regardless.

I think I did.

I think you did too

Erotica gets much of its frisson from the very fact that erotic activities are disapproved of or taboo. The restrictive and nutty and disapproving aspects of society should be seen as opportunities for, not limitations on, writers.

And that right there is a great example. Erotica and porn has been stridently disapproved of through much of the 20th century and look at all of us, writing away happily, and our stories offend a sizable percentage of the American population.

I don't see anything wrong with offending yet another percentage of the population at all. All part of writing. If you're writing something worth reading, you're going to offend someone somewhere. Yes, the social media mob's may come after you, but that's why we all write under pseudonym's and try to anonymize ourselves.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

Is a redemptive narrative even possible to write in the modern world?

Consider some of the great redeemed villains—Ebenezer Scrooge, Darth Vader, Grinch and the like. In the modern world, there’d always be twits endlessly tweeting ‘don’t forget what so-and-so did 20 years ago’ or some such drivel. Never forget Cindy Lou Who!

Could you even write a plausible redemptive narrative today?

I think so, and I think it's probably a good thing to start thinking about too.

Someone mentioned Ghandi. Was he a great leader in pacifism and taking down an empire? Yes. Was he also a racist? Yes.

History is full of people like that. All heroes have feet of clay. Someone can be important to a the history of nation, or people, or the world and still have flaws. The sooner our current culture realizes that the better.

That's not to say that there aren't genuine villains in history, or that society needs to have some kind of moral threshold for who's admirable despite flaws, and who is simply flawed though.

It means that we need to look at good people as people.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I think so, and I think it's probably a good thing to start thinking about too.

Someone mentioned Ghandi. Was he a great leader in pacifism and taking down an empire? Yes. Was he also a racist? Yes.

History is full of people like that. All heroes have feet of clay. Someone can be important to a the history of nation, or people, or the world and still have flaws. The sooner our current culture realizes that the better.

That's not to say that there aren't genuine villains in history, or that society needs to have some kind of moral threshold for who's admirable despite flaws, and who is simply flawed though.

It means that we need to look at good people as people.

Agreed, but that was my point, albeit perhaps ineptly made. We are in a society working very, very hard to pull down any hero or heroine with the dreaded F.O.C. . (The latter of course get a bit more leeway, but give it time.) The bowdlerization of fiction is following, I fear, the trivialization of real life. Edited emphasis: And everybody has Feet of Clay to some degree.

One can write heroic parts, but to my mind they're either going to be ripped apart (eg Atticus Finch in Go Set a Watchman) or else be overly saccharine.

What society needs right now is a good antihero.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think you did too

Thank you, Chloe.

I fundamentally reject the premise of the question. Writers ought to be willing to go against the currents of their times, not just coast along with what they think readers will find acceptable.

 

[RetroFan]

You could definitely write a redeemer type story on Literotica.

I write a lot of stories on the site with politically incorrect themes and characters who are awful people who do awful things, and I've had no complaints about this aside from a few minor ones, such as one reader criticizing me for writing about spoiled girls in some of my works.

Although having said that, one reader did say that my Breanna character from Trailer Trash Teen Hates Rules was the most vile literary character he had ever read about.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Although having said that, one reader did say that my Breanna character from Trailer Trash Teen Hates Rules was the most vile literary character he had ever read about.

Which is a testament to the quality of your characterisation (assuming of course your reader was well read )

 

[ChloeTzang]

Which is a testament to the quality of your characterisation (assuming of course your reader was well read )

I thought Unity did pretty well with Jenny.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I thought Unity did pretty well with Jenny.

Shameless, Chloe, shameless. Exactly what I’d do .

 

[Hypoxia]

Could I write tales of asswipes who become decent humans? Sure. Do I want to? I dunno.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Is a redemptive narrative even possible to write in the modern world?

Consider some of the great redeemed villains—Ebenezer Scrooge, Darth Vader, Grinch and the like. In the modern world, there’d always be twits endlessly tweeting ‘don’t forget what so-and-so did 20 years ago’ or some such drivel. Never forget Cindy Lou Who!

You're asking several different questions here.

Is it possible to write a redemption narrative? Yes, obviously. If you have working fingers and keyboard, or an appropriate substitute, you can write anything your imagination allows.

Is it possible to write a redemption narrative without anybody criticising it? Nope, and it never was, unless you keep it locked up so that nobody sees it.

Are redemption narratives less popular than they used to be? I'm not convinced. I'm still seeing plenty of them out there, e.g.:

Harry Potter: Snape gets redeemed from Genocidal Wizard Nazi to "the bravest man I ever knew".

Fury Road: Nux starts out as a futuristic jihadist who dreams of killing and dying for his holy cause, but is redeemed by kindness and a final act of sacrifice.

Fifty Shades of Grey: rich asshole redeemed by the love of a woman.

Iron Man: rich asshole is confronted with some of the consequences of his business, grows at least a scrap of conscience and works to make amends.

The Grinch: remake came out just last month. Lukewarm reviews but it's still grossed over a quarter of a billion.

And so on. Can't say that all of those are to my taste - and there's definitely something to be said about what kinds of people do and don't get redemption narratives - but it still seems to be quite popular.

 

[Hypoxia]

Paperback writer, paperback writer.
Dear Sir or Madam, will you read my book?
It took me years to write, will you take a look?
It's based on a novel by a man named Lear,
And I need a job,
So I want to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.

It's a dirty story of a dirty man,
And his clinging wife doesn't understand.
His son is working for the Daily Mail
It's a steady job,
But he wants to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.
Paperback writer, paperback writer.

It's a thousand pages, give or take a few.
I'll be writing more in a week or two.
I could make it longer if you like the style.
I can change it 'round,
And I want to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.

If you really like it you can have the rights.
It could make a million for you overnight.
If you must return it you can send it here,
But I need a break,
And I want to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.
Paperback writer, paperback writer.

 

[Polyacrylate]

For a fictional or fictionalized narrative, it depends who is the witness or judge of the redemption, right?

Is God/god/gods/the author the judge of a redemptive narrative? Then, sure, redemption is possible. This is as absolute as it gets.

Is a localized segment of a population judging the redemption? I mean, I think this is possible. There are many flawed people who have their followers who will overlook all flaws, past and present.

Is the character judging their own redemption? This is tricky. After all, a horrible person can forgive themselves for being horrible with little to no sacrifice, with the same outward appearance as a someone who legitimately confronted and conquered their demons.

But is the redemption being judged by the world at large? Yikes. Mankind as whole has proven itself to be a pretty shitty judge of character over some ten thousand years. No redemption, and no salvation in this scenario.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Mankind as whole has proven itself to be a pretty shitty judge of character over some ten thousand years. No redemption, and no salvation in this scenario.

Precisely.

I will of course admit that redemption is certainly possible in the Lit microcosm.

 

[LupusDei]

If you're asking how redemptive narrative can be justified in today's or future society at large, one possible answer is ultimate nihilism. Nobody cares.

In privacy-less society everyone's teenage stunts can be called out as unpunished crimes at any moment. And so what? Who cares. Scandals wear down increasingly quickly. At some point everyone will have nude pictures online. Who cares. Fact of life.

No one gets really richly rich from nothing without committing crime and getting away with it. That might not be true and isn't true at least in some exceptional cases, but that still is what almost everyone I know believes. Guess what, they still love rich assholes.

Like: We know he is stealing and ruined business that probably cost his country, he routinely ridicule, billions per year, but has made town that was polluted industrial shithole into a perfectly groomed tourist destination with one of highest standards of life locally, so we still vote for him. And I talk about real life character here (although he looks like escaped from a comic book, "the little man with a hat"), ex communist party functionary, town mayor for nearly thirty years, who legally do not own his own car, but is known to probably have been net billionaire at some point in practice. He has over 80% support in his town, and at national level there are plenty of people who vote for the political party he supposedly finances because he does (said party is on itself unnatural coalition of Peasants Union and Green Party, dubbed by opponents "dollar-green oil peasants" (said person original wealth come from abusing and ultimately shutting down Russian oil transit through the port he control)). Well, that's not the best example showcasing absurdities of post-soviet mindset, but post-Trump America start to exhibit some of similar vibes (at least looking in from afar).

 

[Hypoxia]

Political assholes are too easy. Focus on a rarity, the honest pol, one who stays bought.

 

[KeithD]

This is the world of fiction. Delivering a redemptive narrative of course is possible.

 

[shenvalleycuckcouple]

It's twenty years old and a satire, but the damn funny novel "A Man in Full" by the recently deceased Tom Wolfe might count... Main character Charlie Croker is a saint compared to our totally unredeemable president here in America and an adult demographic largely reading YA when they are reading fiction, if they read fiction anymore or anything at all at book-length, and I would say no matter the medium but Marshall McLuhan's "The Medium is the Message" still holds up for its overarching point, but I am on a stoned tangent at the moment...

 

[Hypoxia]

No, redemption is no longer possible.

I tried to redeem Green Stamps but found no takers.

The unredeemable can be tossed in a fire. (That's a metaphor.)

 

[mr. robinson]

Is a redemptive narrative even possible to write in the modern world?

Consider some of the great redeemed villains—Ebenezer Scrooge, Darth Vader, Grinch and the like. In the modern world, there’d always be twits endlessly tweeting ‘don’t forget what so-and-so did 20 years ago’ or some such drivel. Never forget Cindy Lou Who!

Could you even write a plausible redemptive narrative today?

I would submit that a successful redemptive narrative is not only possible but is desperately needed, even yearned for at some subconscious level by the great masses today. If you doubt, consider only two words: Tiger Woods, a golfer who scaled the heights of popularity only to be brought low by his own sexual excesses and then redeemed last September at the PGA Tour Championship where he recovered his standing with a performance that drew rousing cheers from the largest crowd to ever line the fairways of a golf course. That proves that there is a great thirst for a story that reaffirms hope can and will overcome cynicism. If it can happen in real life, then surely art can imitate it. The question is really: Who among us will write it?

 

[Hypoxia]

I would submit that a successful redemptive narrative is not only possible but is desperately needed, even yearned for at some subconscious level by the great masses today. If you doubt, consider only two words: Tiger Woods, a golfer who scaled the heights of popularity only to be brought low by his own sexual excesses and then redeemed last September at the PGA Tour Championship where he recovered his standing with a performance that drew rousing cheers from the largest crowd to ever line the fairways of a golf course.

So, winning at golf redeems moral outrage? I can think of a certain political luminary who golfs well but remains resolutely immoral.

That proves that there is a great thirst for a story that reaffirms hope can and will overcome cynicism. If it can happen in real life, then surely art can imitate it. The question is really: Who among us will write it?

IMHO moral redemption requires that we admit and atone for our fuckups, sins, bad behaviors. Scrooge repents and becomes generous. The erotic version has the cheating spouse become the loving, loyal spouse. In any redemption narrative, the sinner must change themself.

Q: How many psychiatrists are needed to change a light bulb?
A: Only one, but the bulb must be WILLING to change.

The unwilling cannot be redeemed. Their story is a tragedy.