Story categories - a question

[gunhilltrain]

I have read Love Your Readers: Categorized Your Story Correctly.

https://www.literotica.com/s/love-your-readers-categories

It's so good I printed out a copy for reference.

However, I'm not sure about this issue: I have about four chapters that are based on the 1996 movie I Shot Andy Warhol (Valerie Solanas' attempt on his life in 1968). The four chapters deal with Solanas' career as a streetwalker in the 1960s. It would seem that the first two chapters belong in Celebrities and Fan Fiction; however they differ from the light-hearted tone that seems to prevail in that category. I thought of putting them in Non-Erotic, but they have some explicit material (about 50% of the text) that might preclude that.

The third chapter would probably fit in BDSM; the fourth would likely be in Non-erotic - some sexual matters are discussed but not depicted. The conversations might get a PG-13 rating in a film.

 

[NotWise]

I was going to suggest Novels and Novellas, since your story seems to cross category lines. Then I looked at TxTallTales description of Novels and Novellas, and he says (for reasons I don't understand) that Celebrity stories shouldn't go there. Does anyone know why that is?

Of course, the downside to Novels and Novellas is that you get few views.

 

[Hypoxia]

Chapters splitting categories in a series usually isn't a good idea. And some categories historically have few viewers. You might post all your chapters together as one long story squeezed into the predominant category by theme. Where is the payoff?

 

[Bramblethorn]

I was going to suggest Novels and Novellas, since your story seems to cross category lines. Then I looked at TxTallTales description of Novels and Novellas, and he says (for reasons I don't understand) that Celebrity stories shouldn't go there. Does anyone know why that is?

Of course, the downside to Novels and Novellas is that you get few views.

Not a category I've written in, but as I understand it, celebrity stories are only ever supposed to go in Celeb. I'd guess it's because real-person stories come with their own issues and Laurel wants to be very clear about which ones those are, but you'd have to ask her for confirmation.

 

[RocketLauncher]

It would seem that the first two chapters belong in Celebrities and Fan Fiction; however they differ from the light-hearted tone that seems to prevail in that category.[/I]

I wouldn't worry about a light hearted tone in Celebs/ Fan Fic, I've inadvertently stumbled upon a few raunchy stories there.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Thanks for the feedback so far

I wouldn't worry about a light hearted tone in Celebs/ Fan Fic, I've inadvertently stumbled upon a few raunchy stories there.

Some thoughts so far:

1. Actually they might not be raunchy enough - the issue is that they are sort of downbeat, but not "sensational" enough. It doesn't make prostitution look glamorous, but more like a gritty type of job. I'll have think more about that category.

2. It's a bit short for Novels and Novellas - maybe not a novella, I'll consider that.

3. I have split chapters before over different categories. I used to want to avoid that, but it has worked well enough for me. I provide links if readers are interested - some of them may not be, but that's life.

4. Solanas was a real person but I think she's passed into the public domain as a celebrity. She's been depicted in a movie, a couple of plays and a TV show (with Lena Dunham playing her in the latter).

5. The first chapter involves, in the second half, a john with a foot fetish; thus possibly it could go in Fetish. The second chapter has "conventional sex" with three guys in a car. That could go in Erotic Couplings as other hooker stories sometimes do. However, it doesn't feel erotic in the "fun and sexy" sense, although I suspect that is realistic.

The three customers are black, so it could maybe be in Interracial, although that isn't really the point of the story.

 

[NotWise]

Some thoughts so far:

2. It's a bit short for Novels and Novellas - maybe not a novella, I'll consider that.

Despite the name, there's no length requirement in Novels and Novellas.

 

[SimonDoom]

You don't say how many words the story is. That's a big factor in whether to submit it as a standalone story or in chapters.

My recommendation is to ask what is the primary erotic focus of the story. If it's fan fic, then focus on that and submit it as a whole, standalone story in that category. But if there's another primary focus consider writing out the celebrity/fan fic figure and focus on the thing that matter. But in either event, submit it as a single story rather than in chapters, unless (a) it's really long, and (b) each of the chapters gives the appropriate reader payoff.

 

[gunhilltrain]

You don't say how many words the story is. That's a big factor in whether to submit it as a standalone story or in chapters.

My recommendation is to ask what is the primary erotic focus of the story. If it's fan fic, then focus on that and submit it as a whole, standalone story in that category. But if there's another primary focus consider writing out the celebrity/fan fic figure and focus on the thing that matter. But in either event, submit it as a single story rather than in chapters, unless (a) it's really long, and (b) each of the chapters gives the appropriate reader payoff.

Thank you, that does give me some things to think about.

The longest story I've ever submitted in one piece was about 9,600 words, which came out to three Literotica pages. The way I have this new one is at less than 3,000 words per chapter; the document with the first three chapters (out of four total) is about 8,400 words.

It's been my guess that on-line attention spans are shorter than for print (but the audience on-line is probably going to be much larger if less attentive). I myself have trouble reading a lot on a screen - I occasionally just print a hard copy of some article. So, anyway, I have some options about how to divide this if it's divided at all.

 

[SimonDoom]

Thank you, that does give me some things to think about.

The longest story I've ever submitted in one piece was about 9,600 words, which came out to three Literotica pages. The way I have this new one is at less than 3,000 words per chapter; the document with the first three chapters (out of four total) is about 8,400 words.

It's been my guess that on-line attention spans are shorter than for print (but the audience on-line is probably going to be much larger if less attentive). I myself have trouble reading a lot on a screen - I occasionally just print a hard copy of some article. So, anyway, I have some options about how to divide this if it's divided at all.

The downside of publishing a long story is some people won't read a long story.

The downside of publishing a story in chapters is that there is significant reader attrition from one chapter to the next. By the time the last chapter is published, often there are not many readers left.

As long as your story isn't TOO long, the first downside probably isn't as big as the second. There are many long stories that do well here, in different categories. Some other authors have poked into the data here and it seems to back this up.

The story you have described is not very long. If the fourth chapter is the same length then the whole thing will be under four LIT pages. That's not long.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The longest story I've ever submitted in one piece was about 9,600 words, which came out to three Literotica pages. The way I have this new one is at less than 3,000 words per chapter; the document with the first three chapters (out of four total) is about 8,400 words.

As Simon says, that's not long. We had a discussion not so long ago where the consensus was that 3 Lit pages is an optimum chapter length in a much longer piece.

12k would be a single submission in my world - that's almost exactly three Lit pages (3,750 per page).

 

[SimonDoom]

8letters did some interesting analysis of the statistical significance of story length a couple of months ago, and he published his analysis in this thread: https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1488161&highlight=8letters.

The data supports the notion that long stories can and often do very well, and readers in general are very receptive to stories of 3 Lit pages are more, so there's no reason to break down a story into smaller chunks than that if your goal is to increase readership or to get higher scores.

 

[Hypoxia]

If a story takes 3500 words, tell it.

If a story takes 350000 words, tell it.

Don't count your pages before they hatch.

But if you MUST pander to a readership, go for it.

 

[RejectReality]

Regardless of whether it's public domain, stories based upon worlds or characters from an existing property are supposed to go in Celebrities & Fanfiction.

If you put it anywhere else, you may find the category changed upon approval, or it may get moved there when reported later by readers. There's also a chance that it will be rejected with a note saying that such stories need to be placed in that category. That's more likely for a multi-chapter story when you submit the first, and it has a Ch. 01 designation.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Regardless of whether it's public domain, stories based upon worlds or characters from an existing property are supposed to go in Celebrities & Fanfiction.

If you put it anywhere else, you may find the category changed upon approval, or it may get moved there when reported later by readers. There's also a chance that it will be rejected with a note saying that such stories need to be placed in that category. That's more likely for a multi-chapter story when you submit the first, and it has a Ch. 01 designation.

That's an interesting point.

Valerie Solanas herself exists as an historical figure just like, say, Andy Warhol does. But the movie about her - a fictionalized treatment, not a documentary - is indeed an existing property.

I did mention the movie in a prologue to the first chapter (including a reference to actor Lili Taylor). I could remove that but that might be a sleight-of-hand. I have a couple of scene based on scenes in the film, which would have been come from filmmaker Mary Harron's script. The events are probably not based on real events because so little is known about what happened before June, 1968. Harron herself admitted that she considered a documentary but couldn't do one.

I could remove those scenes too but . . . anyway, thank you for your input.

 

[Hypoxia]

Valerie who?

No, I'm not unfamiliar. But she's not exactly a celeb, beyond the fifteen minutes of infamy that strip her of any expectation of privacy. And she's not a fictional character in an invented world. She's a real person of whom reports and fictions were devised. She, or any of past minor notoriety, is fair game for any fictions you want. "Solanas's life has been the focus of numerous performances, films, musical compositions, and publications." Yours will be yet another.

 

[gunhilltrain]

If a story takes 3500 words, tell it.

If a story takes 350000 words, tell it.

Don't count your pages before they hatch.

But if you MUST pander to a readership, go for it.

By the way, I do get the "Valerie who?" issue. Quite a while ago (2005) I wrote a treatment of the movie because I had a celebrity infatuation on Lili Taylor, not Solanas. It's weird sometimes how fiction develops in these unplanned ways.

The readership: it's like that idea that an event changes merely by being observed. One can promise oneself that having an audience won't change anything, but it probably does anyway.

In the world outside of free web sites, there are editors, publishers, movie executives and so forth who, ah, encourage some restraint on length. After seeing some full-length director's cuts (Apocalypse Now) I've thought, "Coppola is a visionary, but thank God somebody was there to rein him in."

 

[Hypoxia]

By the way, I do get the "Valerie who?" issue.

Not everyone whose face appeared on TV or newsreels in the last century was/is a celeb. I posted a story (in Romance) of real scientific superstars of over a century ago, prominent in the popular press, but unknown now. I'm cooking a story (in Group) of an actual Hollywood pioneer and stars of the 1920-30's but they ain't celebs now.

Lady Gaga is a celeb now. Fay Wray is no longer under spotlights. Celebrity wears off like sunscreen. What is its half-life?

The readership: it's like that idea that an event changes merely by being observed. One can promise oneself that having an audience won't change anything, but it probably does anyway.

As Pilot/Keith points out, almost anything posted on LIT will find SOME sort of audience. So who/what are a 'readership'?

* The universe of all possible LIT-heads browsing the story indices.
* Those who bother viewing and skimming tales, including yours.
* Those who are entertained by your writing and would read more.
* Those who respond positively to you with votes, faves, nice notes.

When I suggest we "pander to a readership" I mean writing to what we think are the expectations of category fans, or our personal fans. JustPlainBob's readers have a fair idea what to expect. His readership likely doesn't include many unicorn lovers so pandering to THEM would be a stretch, hey?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Follow-up

I appreciate the advice I got on this - it was all very helpful. I decided to put all four chapters in Celebrities and Fan Fiction; three of them have been posted. The response has been very modest but I'm satisfied.

The first chapter is here:

https://www.literotica.com/s/valerie-in-new-york-ch-01