Active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement in USA

[gotsnowgotslush]

Active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement in USA


In the dead of night, on Tuesday, someone gave John Kelly orders


National security lawyers all over the country lifted their heads from their Thanksgiving preparations in alarm. It has been very settled law for more than a century that active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement functions within U.S.


It was called a “Cabinet order,” but the Cabinet has no constitutional authority to make orders, and certainly not of the military. Sometimes in past administrations, the White House has sent “Cabinet memos” – but those merely enumerated explicit presidential guidance. This memo, instead of invoking the president’s authority, was signed by Chief of Staff John Kelly – but chiefs of staff have no authority to command anyone except White House employees

The fact that Kelly is a retired four-star general is irrelevant; no chief of staff fits anywhere in the military chain of command.


Lawfare editor Scott Anderson asked whether Trump might be protecting himself by having Kelly sign – because violations of the Posse Comitatus Act can carry criminal penalties.

Secretary Mattis took time with a press gaggle Wednesday afternoon to stress that the military would not violate the Posse Comitatus Act. “

http://nymag.com

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

Chris Geidner
@chrisgeidner
·
5h
Some follow-up on the weird "cabinet letter" story here

Tara Copp
@TaraCopp

We are at nearly 40 mins with #SecDef in press gaggle - lots more on borderto come. Bottom line from Secretary Mattis - US forces will NOT act in violation of Posse Comitatus

12:31 PM · Nov 21, 2018

Matt@mattoclifford
·
5h
Replying to
@chrisgeidner

Is the delegation of decisionmaking to Mattis a way for the administration to (yet again) issue an "order" that looks tough and mean but doesn't actually do anything?

12:38 PM · Nov 21, 2018


gsgs comment- Recently, there was some items in the news, that concerned ignoring Trump's demands, and humoring him.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

02/09/18


There’s a chain of command within the executive branch – and within the military – and Mattis does not outrank Trump. But in practice, it’s quite likely that the Pentagon chief knows that the amateur president has no idea what he’s doing, and there are potentially dangerous consequences to giving Trump options he might want to act on, so for everyone’s sake, the responsible thing to do is to refuse some of the president’s most irresponsible requests.

In any normal administration, if the White House made a request for military options to the Pentagon, and the Defense secretary refused to provide one, that cabinet secretary would soon be unemployed.

We’re frequently reminded that nothing about Trump World is normal.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...reportedly-ignored-trump-request-iran-options

Babysitting Trump

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-child-behavior-white-house-681633

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

Tara Copp
@TaraCopp
·
4h

Yesterday #SecDef spent a lot of time explaining the new #border authorities. There are still questions, but here's what we know

Mattis explains new roles, authorities at border
militarytimes.com


9:11 AM · Nov 22, 2018

Aaron Mehta
@AaronMehta
·
Nov 21
BIG BREAKING SCOOP: Our
@TaraCopp
breaks news that troops at the border are now authorized to use lethal force, do crowd control and employ temporary detention - which may run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act

10:14 AM · Nov 21, 2018


Shoot to kill, at the border.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...lowing-military-to-use-lethal-force-at-border

John Kelly's excuse- "I was just following orders."

"I signed the memo."

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

Crooks with weasel lies.

Why continue to expect the truth from anyone that works for the "Bozo" that treats the Oval office chair like a throne.

*shrugs*

gsgs comment- It seems to be a pattern- they all do something exceptionally rotten against America, or the American people, before they jump out of the escape hatch.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

In an interview earlier this month (November 1st) where he (Trump) played up his fear-mongering campaign against the migrant caravan, Trump said soldiers should view asylum seekers armed with rocks as no different than guns. “There’s not much difference when you get hit in the face with a rock,” he said before walking that back the next day.

https://splinternews.com/trumps-white-house-reportedly-signed-off-on-troops-usin-1830591485

Is Trump trying to create enemies for the United States ?


Why does Trump want Americans to feel isolated and fearful ?


The dark history behind Trump’s inflammatory language

June 22, 2018

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b96f066d8d13


Trump has managed to create "us" and "them."

People that support Trump, and people that are supported by Trump, are the "us."

Then, there are the people that Trump attacks. He attacks judges, when they do not rule in his favour.


According to Trump there are "Obama judges."

gsgs comment-

Brett Kavanaugh will never be a true Supreme Court Judge. Everyone knows that he is a "Trump judge."

/end gsgs comment

A judge did not give Trump what he wanted-


"This was an Obama judge. And I’ll tell you what, it’s not going to happen like this anymore. ”

gsgs comment-
Legislating evil into being, is a special skill that Trump's supporters and backers have developed. So far, it has resulted in dead women, dead babies, dead children, dead teens, and dead men.

Dead people can't vote.
Except for the dead that vote for Trump.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Nov 21
BIG BREAKING SCOOP: Our
@TaraCopp
breaks news that troops at the border are now authorized to use lethal force, do crowd control and employ temporary detention - which may run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act

How exactly is using military force to defend the border from what amounts to an invading army, violating PCA?

Maybe Border Patrol should call 911 every time they see an illegal?! ROFL

 

[Rightguide]

Active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement in USA

^^^

This is a lie.

As CinC he can declare a national security threat of invasion at the Southern Border and order the military to defend it. The Posse Comitatus Act does not prevent the President from declaring Martial Law or repelling invasion. There's no question about this. It's been done before.

On Oct. 25, 2005, the House of Representatives and Senate enacted a joint resolution (H. CON. RES. 274) clarifying Congress' stance on the effect of the Posse Comitatus Act on the use of the military on U.S. soil. In part, the resolution states "by its express terms, the Posse Comitatus Act is not a complete barrier to the use of the Armed Forces for a range of domestic purposes, including law enforcement functions, when the use of the Armed Forces is authorized by Act of Congress or the President determines that the use of the Armed Forces is required to fulfill the President's obligations under the Constitution to respond promptly in time of war, insurrection, or other serious emergency."

https://www.thoughtco.com/posse-comi...border-332128

 

[Rose4Emily]

^^^

This is a lie.

As CinC he can declare a national security threat of invasion at the Southern Border and order the military to defend it. The Posse Comitatus Act does not prevent the President from declaring Martial Law or repelling invasion. There's no question about this. It's been done before.

On Oct. 25, 2005, the House of Representatives and Senate enacted a joint resolution (H. CON. RES. 274) clarifying Congress' stance on the effect of the Posse Comitatus Act on the use of the military on U.S. soil. In part, the resolution states "by its express terms, the Posse Comitatus Act is not a complete barrier to the use of the Armed Forces for a range of domestic purposes, including law enforcement functions, when the use of the Armed Forces is authorized by Act of Congress or the President determines that the use of the Armed Forces is required to fulfill the President's obligations under the Constitution to respond promptly in time of war, insurrection, or other serious emergency."

https://www.thoughtco.com/posse-comi...border-332128

This may be true, but the use of active duty regular military forces for domestic law enforcement is a dangerous precedent to set.

 

[gunthernehmen]

This may be true, but the use of active duty regular military forces for domestic law enforcement is a dangerous precedent to set.

Defending our border against an unconventional invasion is NOT domestic law enforcement.

Domestic law enforcement is more like calling in the Army to quell rioters in Ferguson . And yes, using the Army / NG in a situation like THAT would not be great. It just isn't even remotely like what is going on at the border.

 

[Ireadforpleasure]

Active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement in USA


http://nymag.com

Trump seems to know NOTHING about how the government works in the United States of America, and he has no interest in learning.

He seems to think that if he's rude enough, belligerent enough and childish enough, he'll be allowed to turn America into a brutal dictatorship, like the ones he loves so much in Russia and Saudi Arabia.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Trump seems to know NOTHING about how the government works in the United States of America, and he has no interest in learning.

It's contagious. Neither does anyone in the media or the lefty loonie crowd.

 

[phrodeau]

Remember Obama's Ready Reserve Corps, a vast national security force?

Remember Obama's FEMA internment camps?

Remember Obama's Jade Helm 15 military exercises?

Now, do you remember how many here railed against those things as examples of government overreach and inhumanity, and how they were polishing their weapons for the eventual civil war against Obama's government?

I do.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

Some East Coast radio stations aired Coast to Coast with Art Bell during the 1990s. The conspiracy junk was not something that anyone took seriously. It was just for fun.

Now, there are a zillion strange radio stations, and weird internet broadcasts. The crazy has exploded.

There are real journalists and vetted reporters steadily debunking the most harmful of toxic rumors.

Art Bell returned to the airwaves, after the sick garbage started taking over the airwaves.


https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wj7by9/ufo-radio-host-art-bell-dead-at-72

R.I.P.

Art Bell

 

[jaF0]

"Eisenhower's reputation declined in the immediate years after he left office. During his presidency, he was widely seen by critics as an inactive, uninspiring, golf-playing president. This was in stark contrast to his vigorous young successor, John F. Kennedy, who was 26 years his junior. Despite his unprecedented use of Army troops to enforce a federal desegregation order at Central High School in Little Rock, Eisenhower was criticized for his reluctance to support the civil rights movement to the degree that activists wanted."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower


"Newark burned in 1967, where six days of rioting left 26 dead, 1500 injured, and the inner city a burned out shell. In Detroit in 1967, Governor George Romney sent in 7400 national guard troops to quell fire bombings, looting, and attacks on businesses and on police. Johnson finally sent in federal troops with tanks and machine guns. Detroit continued to burn for three more days until finally 43 were dead, 2250 were injured, 4000 were arrested; property damage ranged into the hundreds of millions."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson



I'm not sure you'll find it in print too many places, but I know for a fact that 82nd Airborne troops fired on and killed civilians in Detroit.

 

[phrodeau]

Defending our border against an unconventional invasion is NOT domestic law enforcement.

Domestic law enforcement is more like calling in the Army to quell rioters in Ferguson . And yes, using the Army / NG in a situation like THAT would not be great. It just isn't even remotely like what is going on at the border.

If the migrants throw rocks, we shoot them, right? Then Honduras retaliates and we're in a new war, thanks to Trump's insistence to always hit back ten times harder.

Or if the migrants are assured of safe harbor and the possibility of asylum, they won't even pick up any rocks to throw. They might even be willing to take some of those vacant jobs we have so many of lately. I hear Honduran food is good; we could trade recipes. Good baseball players, too.

 

[gunthernehmen]

If the migrants throw rocks, we shoot them, right? Then Honduras retaliates and we're in a new war, thanks to Trump's insistence to always hit back ten times harder.

Or if the migrants are assured of safe harbor and the possibility of asylum, they won't even pick up any rocks to throw. They might even be willing to take some of those vacant jobs we have so many of lately. I hear Honduran food is good; we could trade recipes. Good baseball players, too.

Why would you throw a rock at a dude carrying a rifle?

Did you know BP agents carry rifles, by the way, or did you think our borders are defended by British Bobbies carrying batons?

 

[phrodeau]

Why would you throw a rock at a dude carrying a rifle?

Did you know BP agents carry rifles, by the way, or did you think our borders are defended by British Bobbies carrying batons?

Why would you think migrants seeking asylum are an invasion force?

 

[gunthernehmen]

Why would you think migrants seeking asylum are an invasion force?

Whether the weapon is a gun, a rock or punji stick, peaceful refugees looking for asylum don't attack the country they're looking to for safety.

Thus it stands to reason that if they "throw rocks" (your scenario) then they are NOT migrants seeking asylum.

 

[phrodeau]

Whether the weapon is a gun, a rock or punji stick, peaceful refugees looking for asylum don't attack the country they're looking to for safety.

Thus it stands to reason that if they "throw rocks" (your scenario) then they are NOT migrants seeking asylum.

I proposed two scenarios, if you hadn’t noticed.

 

[gunthernehmen]

I proposed two scenarios, if you hadn’t noticed.

I hadn't. Did the other scenario make any sense?

 

[phrodeau]

I hadn't. Did the other scenario make any sense?

Wars seldom make sense, and a war instigated by Donald Trump certainly won’t.

Now, tell us how much thicker you’re going to be.

 

[KeithD]

Gunther, Gunther, Gunther.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Wars seldom make sense, and a war instigated by Donald Trump certainly won’t.

Now, tell us how much thicker you’re going to be.

So basically your only action plan was to throw rocks.

 

[wickedpanda]

Active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement in USA


In the dead of night, on Tuesday, someone gave John Kelly orders


National security lawyers all over the country lifted their heads from their Thanksgiving preparations in alarm. It has been very settled law for more than a century that active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement functions within U.S.


It was called a “Cabinet order,” but the Cabinet has no constitutional authority to make orders, and certainly not of the military. Sometimes in past administrations, the White House has sent “Cabinet memos” – but those merely enumerated explicit presidential guidance. This memo, instead of invoking the president’s authority, was signed by Chief of Staff John Kelly – but chiefs of staff have no authority to command anyone except White House employees

The fact that Kelly is a retired four-star general is irrelevant; no chief of staff fits anywhere in the military chain of command.


Lawfare editor Scott Anderson asked whether Trump might be protecting himself by having Kelly sign – because violations of the Posse Comitatus Act can carry criminal penalties.

Secretary Mattis took time with a press gaggle Wednesday afternoon to stress that the military would not violate the Posse Comitatus Act. “

http://nymag.com

Securing our borders from an invading force is not a police matter, its a national defense matter, so no prize spanky.

Didn't see anyone complaining when the national guard is used as cops during disasters, oops reality vs Trump hate!